2019-20 U.S. Ladies Figure Skating

Alexz · Jun 26, 2019

So about Alysa's quad..

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/581350351903653909/593518118211682333/al3.gif
(gif made by leony)

Edge is good, but some considerable PR and UR. However she is making progress. Jump is rather high for her height. Keep up a good work, Alysa. Stay healthy. We need more quad girls!

Elucidus · Jun 26, 2019

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D-AM96FVUAAz0Mh.jpg
+2 GOE for URed 4Lz? Now it's obvious who is prime beneficiary of new UR rules :rolleye:

MarinHondas · Jun 26, 2019

andromache said:
It's fine to want to win. But you can't win with a broken body and/or skating that slow with those weak skating skills.

Wanting to win as quickly as possible and quit (like nusscracker suggested) is an extremely limited and short-term goal and doesn't account for the fact that sometimes it takes a long time to win, but you won't be able to be around for a long time to win if you're driven out of the sport with injuries.

Couldn’t have said it better!!!:thumbsup::thumbsup:

She needs to be w a coach that can manage her better, and not let the 13 year old decide how many quads/3a’s she’s going to do.

Lunalovesskating · Jun 26, 2019

Elucidus said:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D-AM96FVUAAz0Mh.jpg
+2 GOE for URed 4Lz? Now it's obvious who is prime benefactor of new UR rules :sarcasm:

Do you really expect national judges in small comps to have the same standard as ISU judges?

MarinHondas · Jun 26, 2019

Elucidus said:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D-AM96FVUAAz0Mh.jpg
+2 GOE for URed 4Lz? Now it's obvious who is prime benefactor of new UR rules :sarcasm:

Where did u find this? The first 3a was << and got no call? :scratch2:

bytheriver · Jun 26, 2019

And I should say, I completely understand that injuries are a part of sport regardless of doing the big jumps. Mirai just posted something on Twitter about how she often thinks about a career without injuries and what that would have looked like for her. But when you do the big jumps and land in that repetitive motion on your hips, knees, and ankles, you're setting you're up for even more of those injuries. One of Mirai's major injuries came from training the 3A, Tara's 3Lo-3Lo is the reason she had a hip replaced, etc.

Anything can happen and I'm just questioning the pacing and choice of throwing it all out there in competition right now. Kamila has one quad, no 3A that I've seen. Maybe Alysa can beat her with this content (regardless of it being hard on her body), but can she last to seniors with it without pacing more gradually. That's the question.

In other US ladies' news: I'm excited to see video of Hanna at this competition, and am looking forward to seeing the rising juniors from MJM competing senior domestically (Emilia Murdock and Gabbie Izzo).

Lunalovesskating · Jun 26, 2019

When I saw the video I noticed that Alysa's spins have worsened, looking at the protocols it seems confirmed. Level 2 on a spin OUCH! I feel like they neglected some of her elements to focus on her jumps.

sheetz · Jun 26, 2019

Elucidus said:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D-AM96FVUAAz0Mh.jpg

How was the second 3Lz not invalidated?

bytheriver · Jun 26, 2019

sheetz said:
How was the second 3Lz not invalidated?

If they quietly got rid of the Zayak rule, I can already picture Elaine Z strapping on her skates to work on her toe loops again.

MarinHondas · Jun 26, 2019

Lunalovesskating said:
When I saw the video I noticed that Alysa's spins have worsened, looking at the protocols it seems confirmed. Level 2 on a spin OUCH! I feel like they neglected some of her elements to focus on her jumps.

Yeah... only one level 4 element

she’s a fabulous spinner, she should be getting level 4 if she works on them..

gkelly · Jun 26, 2019

Mathman said:
Isn't Alysa in Zayak violation anyway? If you get a < or even a <<, doesn't the jumps still count for Zayak considerations? (If she intended a 3A but the tech cpecialist called it only a 2A, then its OK.) Is this right?

Yes.

The first year of IJS, ca. 2004, downgraded jumps were called as the jump of one fewer revolutions. This led to problems with the Zayak rule: IIRC, at one GP event Michael Weiss did a 3T+3T combination and then an intended 4T that was downgraded and called as 3T and therefore didn't count at all. Or maybe it was the other way around and the combination didn't count.

Soon afterward, the ISU came up with the < designation to distinguish attempted but downgraded higher-rev jumps from their lower-rev equivalents. (Or Canada had already been using it and the ISU adopted it.) That applied to any jump with more than 90 degrees underrotation. It wasn't until 2010 that the "downgrade" vs. "underrotated" distinction was introduced with the << vs. < symbols.

But yes, a jump with << call now counts as the attempted jump for Zayak purposes.

nussnacker · Jun 26, 2019

andromache said:
It's fine to want to win. But you can't win with a broken body and/or skating that slow with those weak skating skills.

Wanting to win as quickly as possible and quit (like nusscracker suggested) is an extremely limited and short-term goal and doesn't account for the fact that sometimes it takes a long time to win, but you won't be able to be around for a long time to win if you're driven out of the sport with injuries.

I wasn’t suggesting anything

I was just saying, if people are worried whether Alysa will have a long career or not, that we don’t even know if that’s what she wants in the first place.

Yes, she’s 13-14 and her parents will be making some decisions for her or help guide her decisions, but is there any other way?
It’s their responsibility, and I’m sure they are just as conscious and care about Alysa‘s health just like posters here.

Besides, there’s USFS, who are already helping Alysa‘s family with specialists, with whom she interns. I’m sure they are able to get doctors and experts to check on Alysa and her health.

The truth is, we don’t know much about what’s going on behind the scenes.

I just refuse to believe that every single adult near Alysa is more uninformed about her training and her health than posters here.

Tavi... · Jun 26, 2019

Ice Dance said:
Sheesh. Ease up a little people. It's the first big summer competition of the season. Jason used to skate his programs at the Broadmoor without a single triple jump. We could try to dig up Nathan's disastrous LP from the Japan Open last season if we need perspective on what a debut competitive skate can look like. (One negative aspect of not having a livestream is that you don't get any real perspective from seeing how much of a hot mess everyone is; and people do not look that great on phone footage even when they are).

I'm blown away by what Alysa attempted here. Good for her. Does she have issues with URs? Yes, she does. I think it would be wise for us, heading into her first JGP season, to keep that in mind and have perspective. But she's come a long long way and mastered a lot of clean triples since I first saw her three years ago.

I agree that we need to remember it’s her first early summer comp and back off a bit, but the reason Jason used to debut his programs with doubles was to preserve the integrity of Rohene’s transition packed choreography. That’s a fundamentally different rationale than Alysa’s team is following. Their focus seems to be on getting those jumps out there, which I guess makes sense if she’s planning on using this layout in Lake Placid. Unfortunately, most of the jumps - regardless of rotation - just look kind of ugly right now. Which is a pity, because it obscures the fact that she has quite a nice movement quality otherwise. Hopefully she’ll make progress by Lake Placid and will have enough reserves by that time to deal with the altitude. It’s not nearly as bad as CS, but at 1800 feet it’s quite a bit higher than the Bay Area.

Skater Boy · Jun 26, 2019

I am much more confident Liu will survive puberty than the Russian ladies. She skates young because she is young. USA looks good. Bradie can challenge for the world podium and Mariah or whoever can do well enough for the us to get 3 spots and the future looks good with Liu. Liu could burt on with OGM or an oly medal.

frida80 · Jun 26, 2019

Mathman said:
Isn't Alysa in Zayak violation anyway? If you get a < or even a <<, doesn't the jumps still count for Zayak considerations? (If she intended a 3A but the tech cpecialist called it only a 2A, then its OK.) Is this right?

No. an attempted quad is still considered a quad on the sheet and therefore not applicable to the Zayak rule.

bytheriver · Jun 26, 2019

frida80 said:
No. an attempted quad is still considered a quad on the sheet and therefore not applicable to the Zayak rule.

I think the question is her doing 2 4Lzs, 2 3As, AND 2 3Lzs. She’s repeating 3 different jumps.

oly2018 · Jun 26, 2019

I don't know. There is a lack of security in a lot of these jumps, but the whole program is lacking because of the emphasis placed on the big jumps. The Russian ladies are so successful because they get every single point they can. Losing levels on spins and step sequences isn't an option.

Now, it is true that the altitude takes pretty much everyone out of peak form. But, if that's the case, why risk injury by throwing these jumps at a competition that doesn't really matter in the long run?

LiamForeman · Jun 26, 2019

Tavi... said:
Unfortunately, most of the jumps - regardless of rotation - just look kind of ugly right now. Which is a pity, because it obscures the fact that she has quite a nice movement quality otherwise.

That's what I think too. I just can't see Alysa scoring all that well against, say Valieva, on ANY mark even if she's getting close to the rotations. Valieva looks like Superwoman compared to Alysa's tiny, slow jumps and small skating. What has happened over the summer? Her SKATING looks worse. And who is the choreographer? It looks like a generic pretty princess Lori Nichol program to me. I thought she went to TCC and was being choreographed by David Wilson??? I can't believe he is responsible for this program. Alysa is capable of being dynamic and musical, and this program is just pretty arms here, dainty position there. Whoever choreographed it obviously does not understand Alysa's talent for music and movement....

andromache · Jun 26, 2019

Skater Boy said:
I am much more confident Liu will survive puberty than the Russian ladies. She skates young because she is young. USA looks good. Bradie can challenge for the world podium and Mariah or whoever can do well enough for the us to get 3 spots and the future looks good with Liu. Liu could burt on with OGM or an oly medal.

No way. As much criticism as Eteri gets, she has more experience than Liu's coach does. Liu's skating is also much slower than any of Eteri's girls of the same age, which is very troubling.

ETA: Hopefully, this is just what it looks like now and she will improve dramatically by the JGP. She certainly looked better at Nationals last year. Could just be early season issues that are getting worked on.

LiamForeman · Jun 26, 2019

Skater Boy said:
I am much more confident Liu will survive puberty than the Russian ladies. She skates young because she is young.

Really? Seeing this performance scares me now. Kamila Valieva is nearly one year YOUNGER than Alysa!!! Kamila isn't relying solely upon quick rotation, and all of her jump takeoffs are secure. And she skates BIG. It's night and day to me.

2019-20 U.S. Ladies Figure Skating

Alexz

Elucidus

Match Penalty

MarinHondas

Lunalovesskating

Moonbear power 🐻

MarinHondas

bytheriver

Lunalovesskating

Moonbear power 🐻

sheetz

bytheriver

MarinHondas

gkelly

nussnacker

one and only

Tavi...

Skater Boy

frida80

bytheriver

oly2018

LiamForeman

William/Uilyam

andromache

LiamForeman

William/Uilyam

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