2019-20 U.S. Men's Figure Skating

SaveSkating · Jan 27, 2020

Can you please call NBC @ 212-664-4444 to complain about them interrupting the most suspenseful highlight of Nationals for a non-news event (they had already announced Bryant's death ... this was 100% unnecessary). Like others said, this would have NEVER happened to any other sport. They treat skating with utter contempt and we need to complain loudly. I wish I had a number for NBC Sports but this is the best I could do.

As bad as this is for us as fans, it's infinitely worse for the skaters. This is the best Jason has skated since he first won Nationals (and possibly better than ever). And most skating fans will never get to see it. Nathan has gotten a lot of exposure and it wasn't his best skate. But for Jason it was terribly important and they ruined it for him.

Victura · Jan 27, 2020

I’m far from being a Vincent fan, but I think sending him to Worlds is justified given that he’s the reigning bronze medalist. He did compete at US Classic and Japan Open early in the season (3rd in both), and he did quite respectably here despite having only had a few weeks of training. He himself was passed over for a Worlds spot in 2017 when he was a silver medalist at Nationals and sent to Junior Worlds that year, which he won.

As for Torgashev, he competed on the JGP internationally this year, so it makes sense to give him Junior Worlds (or be on the camp for it). He hasn’t been to JW since 2017 and I think this is his last year eligible.

Pulkinen over Krasnozhon is kind of strange, but Pulkinen did have somewhat better results this fall.

Odd that I’m defending USFS, but I feel like they did try to spread the wealth with these assignments.

labgoat · Jan 27, 2020

lariko said:
They could have replayed the blocked out segment in its entirety.

Yes! How many times has a skating event been delayed by a basketball or football game that runs over time. I am ok with them interrupting the broadcast, but not without running over into the next show to give skating the time the USFSA was promised.

sworddance21 · Jan 27, 2020

Seren said:
Interesting take as I'm one who 100% disagrees with you. I think Jason has really found himself as a performer. And his SP is very unique, there are very few skaters who could skate to that music. Look at his step sequence- his joy in skating was so evident. Music doesn't have to be joyful for passion and joy of skating to come out.

Here, here! I loved young Jason, but this mature, deeply emotional performer is inspiring.

sworddance21 · Jan 27, 2020

karne said:
Uhhhh Jason?

Right? My guess is that Jason is going to 4CC to build his confidence in the 4T before world's.

hopetoskate · Jan 27, 2020

Yes and even more ridiculous that small children were watching as they announced his daughter died as well.

Tavi... · Jan 27, 2020

You know, now that the competition is over, it would be great to read people’s impressions of the actual skates. There were a lot of really great ones, and I think the first / second year seniors / rising juniors made big leaps and bounds from last year, both in performance quality and in competitive consistency. Were their skates perfect? No, there’s plenty of room to improve. But Andrew T had a great SP, Tomoki had a great FS, Camden and Alexei both had some really good moments.

Nathan totally amazes me with his consistency and competitive confidence despite attending school full time and even when he’s coming off illness / reduced training time. As a Jason fan, I’m thrilled he was able to skate so well and happy that his competitive confidence seems to be returning. I thought Vincent did amazingly well given his limited training time over the past few months + new coaching situation.

And speaking of Vincent, do any of y’all remember 2017 when third place Jason - coming off a horrible performance at NHK and recovering from stress fractures in his landing foot - was sent to Worlds over second place Vincent? Do you remember the huge outcry? Now the shoe is on the other foot, and Vincent has been given the benefit of the doubt. As with Jason’s showing at 2017 nationals, what was his impressive about Vincent here was his ability to perform under adverse circumstances. I think he is a fine choice for the World Team and I hope he, Jason, and Nathan kill it!

Regarding the interrupted coverage: I can’t believe people are complaining about and in any case I don’t think this is the right thread to do it. But I will point out that at the start of group 3, NBC notified viewers that it would happen and there was a banner at the bottom of the screen throughout the entire group that coverage would be interrupted. Anyone with NBCSN could have changed channels and not missed the coverage. If you were relying on the NBC broadcast only, well, it’s too bad - but it’s a risk you take with that kind of television service. This kind of thing happens all the time when there’s breaking news.

CanadianSkaterGuy · Jan 27, 2020

Tavi... said:
And speaking of Vincent, do any of y’all remember 2017 when third place Jason - coming off a horrible performance at NHK and recovering from stress fractures in his landing foot - was sent to Worlds over second place Vincent? Do you remember the huge outcry? Now the shoe is on the other foot, and Vincent has been given the benefit of the doubt. As with Jason’s showing at 2017 nationals, what was his impressive about Vincent here was his ability to perform under adverse circumstances. I think he is a fine choice for the World Team and I hope he, Jason, and Nathan kill it!

Agreed. If Vincent performed poorly and squeaked out 4th and was sent over Tomoki, that would be more egregious, but Vincent was superb here, can upgrade (whereas Tomoki seems maxed out), and of course, is the reigning World bronze medalist. I completely forgot about 2017 Nationals, but yeah, Zhou did beat Brown there (by about 9 points), but Brown was sent to Worlds (which made sense at the time based on BOW). Of course, it all worked out... Vincent went to Junior Worlds and slayed there, and I think that might have helped him more than the pressure of senior Worlds and getting 3 spots - which Chen/Brown managed to do. So this time around, it makes sense that he is sent over Tomoki, especially when you know he will add difficulty.

Tomoki was splendid but I don't think he would have gotten the same PCS internationally as he did at Nationals, and Vincent has a bit more senior experience. Tomoki will most likely have his shot at Worlds in the future... his jumps were wonderful - but the program choreo is a bit messy... I think I've seen fewer superfluous leg kicks in a Tutberidze program!

Those Russian splits though - wow ... they reminded me of Sasha's. :bow:

Tavi... said:
Regarding the interrupted coverage: I can’t believe people are complaining about and in any case I don’t think this is the right thread to do it. But I will point out that at the start of group 3, NBC notified viewers that it would happen and there was a banner at the bottom of the screen throughout the entire group that coverage would be interrupted. Anyone with NBCSN could have changed channels and not missed the coverage. If you were relying on the NBC broadcast only, well, it’s too bad - but it’s a risk you take with that kind of television service. This kind of thing happens all the time when there’s breaking news.

Agreed. While it was unfortunate that people missed Nathan and Jason LIVE, those are performances people can always watch replays after the fact. In fact, most figure skating is aired at a later point. Whereas breaking news is just that - news that is in the moment and takes priority.

One of the most prominent athletes ever died in a helicopter crash. So it stands to say that NBC Sports would be covering that. I would absolutely bet that if Kobe's death/news report happened during the Super Bowl or the NHL playoffs or any other major league sport, they would have STILL cut away from that to the breaking news reports/police statement as well.

It's okay to be disappointed that you missed the performance live, but come on, people... we aren't entitled to watch figure skating or any other sport in lieu of breaking news. :rolleye:

merrywidow · Jan 27, 2020

My Olympic channel coverage begins tonight & continues for the next 3 nights. Also, I saw Nathan's free skate after Jason's on N.B.C.

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SaveSkating · Jan 27, 2020

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
While it was unfortunate that people missed Nathan and Jason LIVE, those are performances people can always watch replays after the fact. In fact, most figure skating is aired at a later point. Whereas breaking news is just that - news that is in the moment and takes priority.

1. It was NOT breaking news. They had already reported the news. They were just rehashing. Could they really not have waited for another 10 minutes until the LIVE skating was over?

2. C'mon. Are you serious about watching later? It was a COMPETITION, not some little show. The most important of the year for skaters like Jason. Live, in front of millions. Sure we'll find some YouTube replay at some point, but it totally killed the entire Nationals experience. And for Jason it was the best performance of his career and it was seen by nearly no one.

3. If the "breaking news" had been something like 9/11, sure. But it was discussion about news concerning a sports personality. Can you imagine the end of the Super Bowl being interrupted with discussion of some breaking news about a figure skater? Very funny, I know. Skating is so insignificant that you can interrupt it with just about anything. It's insulting not to the fans but to the athletes who work their entire lives for ONE MOMENT. And it's taken from them because our sport is treated like trash.

1111bm · Jan 27, 2020

SaveSkating said:
Can you please call NBC @ 212-664-4444 to complain about them interrupting the most suspenseful highlight of Nationals for a non-news event...

We should call Interpol too! (or rather the CIA...?)

(sorry, couldn't resist with this one...)

In all seriousness though, because I don't get the outcry, what exactly happened, did they totally skip the performances of several skaters? So the videos of Jason and Nathan on NBC's youtube channel weren't even broadcasted?

gottadance · Jan 27, 2020

I agree 100%. Having already interrupted earlier to announce the crash and Kobe's death, there was absolutely NO need to interrupt again for the press conference. There were only 2 skaters left so they could have very easily kept going with the skating and shown the press conference after completion OR used their brains and put the press conference information across the bottom of the screen . I can only hope that they do the right thing and put the 2 performances on something like the Today show ( which often features Olympic athletes ) which is viewed by millions.That would be a win/win solution for NBC and the skaters and the audience.

CanadianSkaterGuy · Jan 27, 2020

SaveSkating said:
1. It was NOT breaking news. They had already reported the news. They were just rehashing. Could they really not have waited for another 10 minutes until the LIVE skating was over?

2. C'mon. Are you serious about watching later? It was a COMPETITION, not some little show. The most important of the year for skaters like Jason. Live, in front of millions. Sure we'll find some YouTube replay at some point, but it totally killed the entire Nationals experience. And for Jason it was the best performance of his career and it was seen by nearly no one.

3. If the "breaking news" had been something like 9/11, sure. But it was discussion about news concerning a sports personality. Can you imagine the end of the Super Bowl being interrupted with discussion of some breaking news about a figure skater? Very funny, I know. Skating is so insignificant that you can interrupt it with just about anything. It's insulting not to the fans but to the athletes who work their entire lives for ONE MOMENT. And it's taken from them because our sport is treated like trash.

Actually, the police statement was breaking news. Everything leading up to it was surrounded by speculation and presumption. Nobody knew for example that it was 9 casualties (to that point everyone kept saying 5, including prominent news outlets). And the victims’ families and fans (to the point of the police chief having to saying it) deserved to hear something a little more official than a TMZ post.

I’m not going to pretend that figure skating isn’t lower on the sports hierarchy, but that is American sports culture. Yes, Brown and Chen’s skating is important to many of us skating fans but, as harsh as it sounds, they are practical nobodies in comparison to Kobe Bryant. That’s just a fact. If a legendary Russian or Japanese figure skater suddenly passed away the news outlets in those respective countries would be way more inclined to interrupt basketball broadcasts to notify people because figure skating is more prominent and important in their sports and celebrity culture. But this wasn’t some coordinated slight on figure skating. Figure skating on NBC wasn’t the only show/competition/etc that got interrupted by the news report.

“It totally killed the entire Nationals experience.”

Some choice words there, given the nature of the news interruption. :rolleye:

Ella5555 · Jan 27, 2020

merrywidow said:
My Olympic channel coverage begins tonight & continues for the next 3 nights. Also, I saw Nathan's free skate after Jason's on N.B.C.

\

Oddly enough, men’s coverage is not scheduled.

SnowWhite · Jan 27, 2020

Makemi said:
These assignments are... strange.

I can rationalize choosing Vincent for the world team: World bronze medalist, higher world ranking, higher scoring ceiling, and has more international reputation.
(I understand it but I have a soft spot for Tomoki and I really wanted to see him in Montreal....)

What I'm having issues with is the 4CC assignments. It really should be Andrew going. I don't buy that it was due to junior camp since Tomoki did both the junior camp and 4CC last year. If not Andrew then it should have been Alex. Going all the way down to Camden seems really awkward. I love Camden and he has shown flashes of brilliance (and he has the higher SB) but he's no less inconsistent as Alex. I suppose Alex could have turned down the opportunity though I don't see why he would (ETA: actually no Alex is an alternate so he definitely didn't turn it down).

I mean it's not as questionable as the pairs assignments but I do feel bad for Tomoki and Alex.

This is pretty much how I feel, except that I don't really have a preference between Tomoki and Vincent.

I think, given how close the scores were, that sending the defending World Bronze Medalist is perfectly understandable (although I would have been fine with sending Tomoki as well). But I don't love the 4CCs assignments. I would guess that Vincent/his team chose not to do 4CCs, so he can spend more time training in Toronto. That would make sense to me anyways. I'd be interested to know whether Andrew was offered the 4CCs spot and chose to focus on juniors, or whether they straight up gave the spot to Camden.

It would be pretty bad if they did the 2nd one. Even if it's the first one though, I don't think Camden should has got the spot over Alexei. I don't have a problem with body of work, but I do think they take it too far sometimes, especially with "less important" decisions . By which I mean, stuff like the order of alternates not following Nats (I think they did this in dance putting McNamara/Carpenter as 2nd alternate over the Parsons when the Parsons beat them at Nats) or things like the 3rd guy at 4CCs. And the thing with these examples, is that imo, the difference in BOW was not very big. I do think Nationals should hold more weight if there is not a huge difference between the two skaters/teams. I kind of get nitpicking it when it's the Olympics or Worlds (I might not agree, but I can understand it more), but it really bugs me with stuff like this.

Bottom line, I'm fine with the Worlds assignments, but as much as I like him and his skating, I don't think Camden earned an assignment to 4CCs.

eaglehelang · Jan 28, 2020

CanadianSkaterGuy;2 I’m not going to pretend that figure skating isn’t lower on the sports hierarchy said:
Pardon me, but in some other countries, a sports figure/athlete is not prominent/VVIP enough to interrupt a live broadcast. In my country in Asia, only the death of the Prime Minister or King are at that level. Means Royalty & Politicians first.
Athletes at most get coverage at prime time news as headliner - like a prominent active athlete who was diagnosed of cancer(still alive today). He was preparing for 2020 Olympics at the time.

Life threatening injury during competition goes to main news prime time. Death during competition - prime time news. At no time will they interupt a live broadcast for an athlete.

Jetta · Jan 28, 2020

I’m no Vincent Zhou fan, but I understand why he was chosen over his teammates. If he had imploded then it would have been a different story.

I would personally have been livid if I was watching Nationals coverage, relying on the nbc broadcast and they suddenly cut in with breaking news about some sports personality. It’s just another reason to not watch network TV. Like I needed more. And yes I know it’s a reflection of just how unpopular figure skating is in the US, but you certainly aren’t going to cultivate interest by cutting away during the two best skaters of the event.

Icey · Jan 28, 2020

I wish Chen had chosen different music. With that music, he looks as if he is just going from jump to jump. I guess I don't understand goe (and this is nitpicking for such a technically brilliant program ), but shouldn't he have gotten some small negative goe's for two of his jumps in the long program--there were definite errors in them.

luckyu2 · Jan 28, 2020

Icey said:
I wish Chen had chosen different music. With that music, he looks as if he is just going from jump to jump. I guess I don't understand goe (and this is nitpicking for such a technically brilliant program ), but shouldn't he have gotten some small negative goe's for two of his jumps in the long program--there were definite errors in them.

Not an expect but here is the ISU guidance for GOE. https://www.isu.org/figure-skating/...y-and-guidelines-for-marking-goe-2019-20/file

FOR + 1 : 1 bullet FOR + 2 : 2 bullets FOR + 3 : 3 bullets
FOR + 4 : 4 bullets FOR + 5 : 5 or more bullets
FOR + 4 and +5 THE FIRST THREE bullets highlighted in bold must be present

Jump Elements
1) very good height and very good length (of all jumps in a combo or sequence)
2) good take-off and landing
3) effortless throughout (including rhythm in Jump combination)
4) steps before the jump, unexpected or creative entry
5) very good body position from take-off to landing
6) element matches the music

Mathman · Jan 28, 2020

Welcome to Hopetoskate and SaveSkating. Thanks for joining us. Post often, post long! :rock:

2019-20 U.S. Men's Figure Skating

SaveSkating

Victura

labgoat

Female thinker deep in various thoughts

sworddance21

sworddance21

hopetoskate

Tavi...

CanadianSkaterGuy

merrywidow

SaveSkating

1111bm

gottadance

CanadianSkaterGuy

Ella5555

SnowWhite

eaglehelang

Jetta

Icey

luckyu2

Mathman

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