2019-20 U.S. Men's Figure Skating

moonvine said:

Well, if you are specifically interested in men only, unfortunately many regionals can be watched in less than 30 minutes. I watched the ones that are available so far and one had 2 men. I don't think any had more than 4 men. I am amazed we have the quality of male skaters that we do have with so few men in the pipeline. To that end, I'd like to see this minimum TES ditched. If a person can skate well enough to finish 4th or better in his or her region, let them skate at Nationals! I don't know why this change has happened. It can't be for TV because TV is not covering the lower flights of skaters (other than NBC Sports Gold). I understand minimum TES for Worlds - I sat through 41 or 43 ladies shorts, can't remember which, waiting for my Gracie to skate, and if there were no minimum TES it would have been many more. But this is US Nationals. There are only going to be x number of men or ladies or pairs or dance teams regardless (however many sectionals there are x 4). Let the people skate.

Andrew skated at a summer comp this year. I am not sure if he did in previous years. Last I heard he was attending school in Colorado and facetiming with his coach - if so I wish he had gone to Collegiates. There were only 4 senior men at Collegiates.

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I wouldn't be surprised if the tech minimum is either ditched or lowered. The way thing are going, nationals will be empty, but maybe that is their goal. But if people are paying for all event tickets, I think they expect to see more than a flight or two of skaters.

moonvine said:

To that end, I'd like to see this minimum TES ditched. If a person can skate well enough to finish 4th or better in his or her region, let them skate at Nationals! I don't know why this change has happened. It can't be for TV because TV is not covering the lower flights of skaters (other than NBC Sports Gold). I understand minimum TES for Worlds - I sat through 41 or 43 ladies shorts, can't remember which, waiting for my Gracie to skate, and if there were no minimum TES it would have been many more. But this is US Nationals. There are only going to be x number of men or ladies or pairs or dance teams regardless (however many sectionals there are x 4). Let the people skate.

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When USFS posted their reasoning for getting rid of Novice/Intermediate, they posted their reasoning for limiting the qualifiers, and if I recall it was something to the effect that "people don't want to sit through lower level groups," "audiences don't want it to take more than 2.5 hours because that's how long other sporting events take and that's how long Broadway musicals last". I'm paraphrasing but that was the gist. The obvious answer would be to allow only 18 qualifiers in the free skates and let all of the qualifiers into the SP, but that logic was clearly lost on USFS. We will be lucky to see 12 men this year, which is so disappointing.

*If anyone can find the powerpoint where they wrote this stuff, feel free to post it*

moonvine said:

Well, if you are specifically interested in men only, unfortunately many regionals can be watched in less than 30 minutes. I watched the ones that are available so far and one had 2 men. I don't think any had more than 4 men. I am amazed we have the quality of male skaters that we do have with so few men in the pipeline. … There are only going to be x number of men or ladies or pairs or dance teams regardless (however many sectionals there are x 4). Let the people skate.

Andrew skated at a summer comp this year. ...

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Don't get me wrong -- I think it is great that you are watching regionals in entirety.

I have not purchased the NBC pass, so I do not have access to its coverage of regionals.
For me, the USFS highlights videos are a chance to get a taste of seniors/juniors at regionals and sectionals.

As for the number of senior men at Nats:


Andrew A. competed in more than one summer competition, although I don't remember the exact number -- two, three, four??? -- and I don't remember which competitions. But I feel sure that more than once (in separate timeframes), he would refer on Instagram to a competition in the immediate future/present/past.

I apologize if this has been answered, but I did a very quick online search to no avail:

Has Yaroslav Paniot been released by Ukraine? Does he need any type of release to compete at US Nats, or simply the agreement of the US fed? (I do know about the “one year” rule for international comps; I do not know the last time that Yaroslav represented Ukraine.)

el henry said:

I apologize if this has been answered, but I did a very quick online search to no avail:

Has Yaroslav Paniot been released by Ukraine? Does he need any type of release to compete at US Nats, or simply the agreement of the US fed? (I do know about the “one year” rule for international comps; I do not know the last time that Yaroslav represented Ukraine.)

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I am no expert -- but AFAIK, competing at U.S. Nats would not require Yaro to have a release from Ukraine.

(Yaro already competed at a U.S. regional this season.)

Nathan13 said:

When USFS posted their reasoning for getting rid of Novice/Intermediate, they posted their reasoning for limiting the qualifiers, and if I recall it was something to the effect that "people don't want to sit through lower level groups," "audiences don't want it to take more than 2.5 hours because that's how long other sporting events take and that's how long Broadway musicals last". I'm paraphrasing but that was the gist. The obvious answer would be to allow only 18 qualifiers in the free skates and let all of the qualifiers into the SP, but that logic was clearly lost on USFS. We will be lucky to see 12 men this year, which is so disappointing.

*If anyone can find the powerpoint where they wrote this stuff, feel free to post it*

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NO ONE has to sit through ANYTHING. They can, and often do, come specifically for the later groups or even the last group. AND these men need experience for when our top male skaters retire or Goddess forbid become injured and have to quit skating or anything along those lines. There are VERY few men at Regionals as I said. Of course some men have byes to Nationals. I doubt it would do much good but to whom would I politely complain about this change? If I only wanted to see 6 skaters, I could stay at home.

ice coverage said:

Don't get me wrong -- I think it is great that you are watching regionals in entirety.

I have not purchased the NBC pass, so I do not have access to its coverage of regionals.
For me, the USFS highlights videos are a chance to get a taste of seniors/juniors at regionals and sectionals.

As for the number of senior men at Nats:

By my count, eight senior men (so far) have byes to Nats:

Nathan, Vincent, Jason, Tomoki, and Krasnozhon have byes -- as Top 5 at 2019 Nats.
Camden has a bye -- because of two GPs.
Dunk and Torgashev have byes -- because they have had three international assignments this season. (Including Philadelphia International, Torgashev has had four.)
(Jimmy Ma has had two international assignments so far. If[????] he were to get an assignment to Golden Spin, it would be his third.)
​

So the field will be: as many as twelve from sectionals (three sectionals x four) minus those who do not achieve the TES minimum … plus the eight with byes.

Off the top of my head (without checking whether everyone already has met the TES minimum), I am optimistic and/or hopeful that at least the following eleven (in no particular order) will be able to advance to Nats from sectionals: Jimmy Ma (if he does not get a bye), Jordan Moeller, Sebastien Payannet, Joonsoo Kim, Dinh Tran, Sean Rabbitt, Emmanuel Savary, Ben Jalovick, Daniel Kulenkamp, William Hubbart, Yaroslav Paniot. (Sorry if I am forgetting someone else who should be obvious.)

Plus I would love to see Andrew qualify for Nats again … I do have my fingers crossed for him.​

Andrew competed in more than one summer competition, although I don't remember the exact number -- two, three, four??? -- and I don't remember which competitions. But I feel sure that more than once (in separate timeframes), he would refer on Instagram to a competition in the immediate future/present/past.

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Oh, sorry, I did not realize you didn't have access, you seem so knowledgeable. I guess I need to try to follow him on Instagram, he very rarely posts to Twitter, and Coach Sparkly Shoes (I say that with the greatest love) hasn't posted in almost a year. Lets all cross our fingers for Andrew. OK I never would have thought not only would I WATCH sectionals..I would watch sectionals while chewing off my fingernails. Lets Go Andrew (and Gracie!)

You won the best posting debut award. Congratulations!

Makemi said:

So I've been lurking on GS for over a year now (discovered this board right at after the Olympics 2018 and have been visiting here pretty religiously nearly everyday since) and I've told myself I'd never make an actual account. But I finally felt compelled to make one today because I've been a bit sad about the state of this board and I especially don't know what happened to this thread.

A little background, when I first started coming to this board in 2018, my favorite thread was the U.S. Men's Thread (obviously because I am a huge fan of U.S. Men... I like to say that Jason's Riverdance brought me back to figure skating and Nathan made me stay). I really enjoyed all the discussion in the 2018-2019 thread. I'd never followed juniors before but because of all the talk about them in that old thread I started following the JGP and then I became smitten with Tomoki, Camden, Andrew T., and Alexei. If people hadn't discussed them there I would never have thought to find them. And now that I know that the JGP exists I made it a point to follow it religiously this season. So now I've also learned that Ilia Malinin is crazy good and Joseph Klein is adorable (I watch Joseph's short program from Lake Placid whenever I need a pick-me-up, it just makes me smile).

Okay now that I got that off my chest, back to lurking!

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Ah thanks everyone I'm happy that this thread is finally back on track =) I find it certainly more productive to focus on things the skaters can actually change (performance, music, layouts, jumps, choreo, costumes...) rather than things they can't (scores). It takes so much effort to hate, far less to let go and move on. There's enough negativity in this world and life's too short :agree:

Sorry I can't respond to everyone but your comments made my day

moonvine said:

What an awesome and insightful first post! Please do not go back to lurking. The way to turn things around is to post! If you really want to go down a rabbit hole start watching regionals and sectionals (something which, in addition to watching juniors, is something I said I would never do.). There are a lot of really nice people here. I have even met some in person! I never thought I would make friends with someone in Pennsylvania through the Christmas card exchange, but I did! I just ignored all that fall/didn’t fall stuff, because I’m not interested. I think the best way to handle it is to continue making substantive posts like you just did. In general I prefer to watch the men over the ladies, except for my beloved Gracie of course, and this thread is soooo short compared to the ladies thread.

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Thanks @moonvine! "Back in the day" I used to moderate a fairly decent sized fanboard (not FS, another fandom entirely) and after doing that for a few years I swore I'd never register for another forum again. But I'm too obsessed with U.S. Men so... here we are. I don't have access to the archives yet so I can't check but I swear that by this time last year we had twice as many posts in this thread. In fact I loved that thread so much I spent a few days copying everything into a google document- it came out to 180 pages :shocked:

topic: I love the U.S. Ladies too. I was super stoked that Gracie was coming back. I still rewatch her Firebird from Nationals sometimes.

As for regionals, yeah I should start watching those (thanks NBC Gold!) I watched Novice and Intermediates Nationals last season and that's how I found Ilia and William Annis.

el henry said:

But, jumping off, to get back to our US men and the excellent start and questions prompted by @Makemi, Andrew T. may get another Challenger. Last year he skated in a spring Challenger, so we shall see. Fingers crossed

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Oh right I totally forgot about that. Egna Spring Trophy I think? I also think Alex entered the same comp it I remember correctly. A part of me wonders if USFS was hoping Andrew T. would get a high enough SB there to get GP Assignments. And if he did if they would have sent him up to the Senior GP circuit this season instead. (Like they did with Alex last season, Senior GP and JWC). I guess we'll never know. I really hope he eventually gets a high enough SB though. I would hate to have him rely on a host SA berth.

Nathan13 said:

When USFS posted their reasoning for getting rid of Novice/Intermediate, they posted their reasoning for limiting the qualifiers, and if I recall it was something to the effect that "people don't want to sit through lower level groups," "audiences don't want it to take more than 2.5 hours because that's how long other sporting events take and that's how long Broadway musicals last". I'm paraphrasing but that was the gist. The obvious answer would be to allow only 18 qualifiers in the free skates and let all of the qualifiers into the SP, but that logic was clearly lost on USFS. We will be lucky to see 12 men this year, which is so disappointing.

*If anyone can find the powerpoint where they wrote this stuff, feel free to post it*

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Well that's disappointing. I thought the reason for the TES rise (and getting rid of Novice/Intermediate) was to encourage skaters to develop technically and not "sandbag" at the lower levels. I thought I read somewhere that the Tech min the same as the Worlds min? But if their reason is "people don't want to watch lower level skaters" then :noshake: But yeah it does seem like (with the ladies also) that there are going to have far less skaters this year for seniors. Juniors should be pretty full though with the top Novice skaters moving up.

Did a little digging and men's Nats isn't really looking all that bleak.

You have the 8 byes + Ma

And then of the others on Ice Coverage's list at least 7 have earned the TES minimums:

Moeller (UGL Regionals)
Payannet (SWP Regionals)
Kim (Golden West)
Tran (Skate Detroit)
Rabbitt (Golden West)
Savary (SW Regionals)
Paniot (Golden West)

So if all these men advance to Nationals that would be at least 16 competitors.

Speaking of our "young guns"... Everyone is talking about the "4A" in ladies but I think we've got our own group of "juniors-turned-seniors" buddies who train together and push each other.

A few days old but I don't think these articles have been shared yet so...

Hiwatashi Prepares for His First Senior Grand Prix, Step-by-step
https://usfigureskatingfanzone.com/news/2019/10/28/rinkside-hiwatashi-prepares-for-his-first-senior-grand-prix-step-by-step.aspx?path=rinkside

EXCERPT: Hiwatashi, along with Zhou and two other up-and-coming skaters, Camden Pulkinen and Andrew Torgashev, train alongside each other daily. Friendly rivals on the ice, the foursome are buddies off of it.

"All of us are always striving to make every aspect of our skating the best it can be," said Torgashev, who won the Philadelphia Summer International Competition in August and placed fourth at his Junior Grand Prix events in Latvia and Croatia this fall.

"In our group we all see the strengths the others have and we kind of look and try to match each other and move up," he added. "Each person in our group brings their own personality to the table. The group wouldn't be the same without each one of us."

The quartet often check out each other's new moves.

"We give ideas to each other," Hiwatashi said. "Watching Vincent motivated me to start working on the quad Sal(chow) and Lutz."

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Spurred By Nathan Chen, Next Gen Of American Men’s Skaters Looks To Make Its Mark On The Senior Level
https://www.teamusa.org/News/2019/October/31/Spurred-By-Nathan-Chen-Next-Gen-Of-American-Mens-Skaters-Looks-To-Make-Its-Mark-On-The-Senior-Level

EXCERPT: “Nathan obviously has set the standard for American men very high,” said Hiwatashi. “That has made me feel that I can’t reach him where I am right now, but it’s given me a reason to push myself and try to reach the top.”

“The U.S. junior men have been so strong. We’ve really (helped raise) the bar.”

...

“We all grew up together,” said Pulkinen. “I’ve known Tomoki for so long, and I’ve known Vincent and Nathan for a long time, too. We don’t want to just improve American skating; we want to do so on a global stage. We’re pushing each other… including when we’re down and also when we are doing well. There is a camaraderie there. And that drives us more.”

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Makemi said:

... Egna Spring Trophy I think? ... A part of me wonders if USFS was hoping Andrew T. would get a high enough SB there to get GP Assignments.

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Torgashev did compete at Egna Spring Trophy -- but as a non-Challenger, Egna was not an opportunity for anyone to earn a new ISU SB.

Makemi said:

... I thought I read somewhere that the Tech min the same as the Worlds min? ...

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Although really apples and oranges, the required minimum TES for U.S. Nats is lower than for Worlds, one could say.

For U.S. Nats, what matters is total TES (SP TES + FS TES) that must be from the same competition. For men, this season's minimum is 92.0.

For Worlds, separate TES minimums for SP and FS are required, and it is fine for them to be met at different competitions.
For 2020 Worlds for men, the SP TES minimum is 34.00, and the FS TES minimum is 64.00.

Makemi said:

... I don't have access to the archives yet so I can't check but I swear that by this time last year we had twice as many posts in this thread. ...

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Post #517 in the 2018-19 thread was the first post on Nov 5, 2018.

The difference is not as great as twice as many, although the post count for this season's thread is markedly "behind," compared to last season's.

BTW, thank you for continuing to add posts, Makemi.

---

sheetz said:

Did a little digging and men's Nats isn't really looking all that bleak.

You have the 8 byes + Ma

And then of the others on Ice Coverage's list at least 7 have earned the TES minimums:

Moeller (UGL Regionals)
Payannet (SWP Regionals)
Kim (Golden West)
Tran (Skate Detroit)
Rabbitt (Golden West)
Savary (SW Regionals)
Paniot (Golden West)

So if all these men advance to Nationals that would be at least 16 competitors.

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Thank you for checking for the TES minimums.

Well, NBC finally put up the free skate for Andrew Austin’s regionals. I don’t know why they haven’t posted any of the SPs yet, but they haven’t. Andrew did not have the best day. He fell twice, had some pops and a little weirdness on a spin. I sure hope he can pull his score up at Sectionals.

Jason's IG Live interview with Meryl Davis has been posted on his Italian Fan Club's Facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/100012162960449/videos/807623762986382/

The interview, I think, is interesting even if you are not a devoted Jason fan. It was conducted right after Skate America, so he talks about SA and other skaters.

The most interesting part for me was Jason answering yet another question about quads (and don't get me wrong, Meryl is a great interviewer) saying words to the effect: if I had a quad, you'd see it, I'm not skating around going hahaha I don't need to jump a quad, and I work on them every day.

How can you not love Jason. He is the sweetest thing. I will love his skating, Quad or no Quad.

So Alexei K. reads goldenskate
https://sport24.ru/news/other/2019-...video-instagram/amp?__twitter_impression=true

Lunalovesskating said:

So Alexei K. reads goldenskate
https://sport24.ru/news/other/2019-...video-instagram/amp?__twitter_impression=true

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Is there a translation of this article (I am on my iPad and Safari has no automatic translation that I know of).

I am asking because sometimes it appears these sports.ru articles are compilations taking from other news sources. About a year ago, maybe six months, Alex K. mentioned Goldenskate in an interview, and how you couldn’t let Forum posts influence you (wise words for a young man) Many of us were saying we were glad we just said nice things

ETA: I will see if I can find it, but that won’t happen right away either

Are there any toxic fans in the US?
- In the USA there are no fans as such. Figure skating is not so developed here. In Russia it is already shown on Channel One, which is very cool. Of course, there are forums, but there is no such trash. There are harsh comments, I even saw someone wrote about me that I ride like an elephant. But there is no such great toxicity. This is probably because the culture is different. There is a site goldenskate.com, I went there several times to read, it can be normal. They do not call names, but harsh words speak.

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That’s a pretty fair assessment imo. Things can get crazy here but there are hard working mods that stop it from getting to bad.

That said, if any other professional skaters are on this site hopefully we’re all not too harsh most of the time!

Is this quote from the new article? I'm confused :think::

Are there any toxic fans in the US?
"- In the USA there are no fans as such. Figure skating is not so developed here. In Russia it is already shown on Channel One, which is very cool. Of course, there are forums, but there is no such trash. There are harsh comments, I even saw someone wrote about me that I ride like an elephant. But there is no such great toxicity. This is probably because the culture is different. There is a site goldenskate.com, I went there several times to read, it can be normal. They do not call names, but harsh words speak."

Who would say Alex K. skates like an elephant, those people need a life Does he skate like Jason, no, but who does? He has his own gifts.

This is the article in English where Alex K. mentions Goldenskate, of course yet another excellent article by Tatjana Flade *for* Goldenskate. (also the same article where he says he prefers "Alex" even though the ISU has not caught up):

https://www.goldenskate.com/2018/06/usas-krasnozhon-ready-to-bounce-back-after-suffering-injury/

"I know a lot of people don’t like me because I am skating for the U.S. and some people are saying, ‘He’s taking U.S. spots.’ I read that on Golden Skate (forum) and it’s really funny. I love reading that stuff!”

Hey, he wants to skate for the US, he's earned it, and I'm glad he does.:thumbsup:

A very good article about Alex k.
https://usfigureskatingfanzone.com/news/2019/11/13/rinkside-alex-krasnozhon-driven-to-achieve.aspx

el henry said:

Who would say Alex K. skates like an elephant, those people need a life Does he skate like Jason, no, but who does? He has his own gifts.

"I know a lot of people don’t like me because I am skating for the U.S. and some people are saying, ‘He’s taking U.S. spots.’ I read that on Golden Skate (forum) and it’s really funny. I love reading that stuff!”

Hey, he wants to skate for the US, he's earned it, and I'm glad he does.:thumbsup:

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He definitely earned it. Best of luck to Alex this week.