2019-20 U.S. Men's Figure Skating

TontoK · Sep 5, 2019

el henry said:
Ilia was a little firecracker at the Philadelphia comp and as often happens in junior men, third place finisher Darian Kaptich was as tall as Ilia on the winners podium.

One nitpicky observation: Ilia’s costume was incomprehensible. It was half white shirt, half black jacket, literally half on one side and half on the other. We all thought it might be Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde.

It was James Bond

El, you know I won't watch a junior program unless you recommend it.

This was worth the viewing. I went back and watched his short, too, and that was also worth the bother.

Such a very nice triple axel. And something approaching star quality in the charm factor, too.

The LP costume didn't bother me as much as that sequin glittery bit on his sleeve in the SP. The Sons of Anarchy don't do sparkles.

el henry · Sep 5, 2019

tosca said:
I think his PCS suffered to it not being a clean outing. I will say... usually after one mistake, Andrew has a tendency to pop everything but it was nice to see his fight.

I still love his programs this year, even not clean, but oh my Andrew T.:sad21:

If I had magic consistency elixir, I would save it all for him. Still the class of the field for performance and speed and spins, but, sigh, you can't that many jumps....

shine · Sep 6, 2019

Has Andrew ever considered Ice Dance? I think he would actually make a successful transition if he could find the right partner, though that's a big if.

Ice Dance · Sep 7, 2019

shine said:
Has Andrew ever considered Ice Dance? I think he would actually make a successful transition if he could find the right partner, though that's a big if.

You see a lot of people making a successful transition into the top 5 in U.S. Ice Dance while entering the discipline at the age 18 do you?

truthbooth · Sep 7, 2019

I don't know about a transition to ice dance but I think Andrew could consider a change in his coaching situation/location. He has so many lovely qualities that are marred by jump inconsistencies. Of course, 4th place at a JGP is still pretty good, but it has to be disappointing when it's your 5th JGP season. With the current state of US men's skating, he really needs to make improvements in the consistency department, or it will be difficult for him to make a senior international team.

readernick · Sep 7, 2019

truthbooth said:
I don't know about a transition to ice dance but I think Andrew could consider a change in his coaching situation/location. He has so many lovely qualities that are marred by jump inconsistencies. Of course, 4th place at a JGP is still pretty good, but it has to be disappointing when it's your 5th JGP season. With the current state of US men's skating, he really needs to make improvements in the consistency department, or it will be difficult for him to make a senior international team.

I don't I agree with this. He just changed coaches last year and there have been major improvements. He used to pop a jumps in every program and his coach has helped him with this. Now, he actual rotates his jumps and his axel technique while far from perfect is better than in the past. He showed a lot of promise at the summer competitions. I think Kristy Krall did wonders for Tomoki and we saw his improvement at the end of last year. Andrew should stay with her. It takes time for changes to be visible in competition. Plus, going to a new coach probably won't help his primary issue which is mental.

el henry · Sep 7, 2019

Andrew can land the jumps. I've seen him do it live and in person. He doesn't land them in every comp. And it is so incredibly frustrating.:sad21:

The gifts he has of presentation, skating skills (speed and control), spins, are amazing. I think he was underscored for those traits at JGP.

I could care less about what skaters are landing what jumps, as it impresses me far less than what Andrew does, but I would like Andrew to be happy with his skates. And that probably means more consistency in comps.

And the first person who figures out how to *precisely* do that for each and every skater will be a genius for life. :biggrin:

Bluediamonds09 · Sep 7, 2019

Andrew Torgashev is an amazing skater!!!! I was so impressed with his performance qualities! If he could ever skate clean, I’d much rather watch him than the top US men.

Tavi... · Sep 7, 2019

el henry said:
Andrew can land the jumps. I've seen him do it live and in person. He doesn't land them in every comp. And it is so incredibly frustrating.:sad21:

The gifts he has of presentation, skating skills (speed and control), spins, are amazing. I think he was underscored for those traits at JGP.

I could care less about what skaters are landing what jumps, as it impresses me far less than what Andrew does, but I would like Andrew to be happy with his skates. And that probably means more consistency in comps.

And the first person who figures out how to *precisely* do that for each and every skater will be a genius for life.

I agree he was probably underscored in PCS and GOE for spins / steps, but I think they tend to be more stingy with that stuff at the junior level, and even more stingy when you have mistakes in your programs.

el henry · Sep 7, 2019

Tavi... said:
I agree he was probably underscored in PCS and GOE for spins / steps, but I think they tend to be more stingy with that stuff at the junior level, and even more stingy when you have mistakes in your programs.

I see what you mean. At first I was happy Andrew was skating junior, because I thought he would have the chance to shine.

But he is simply, at this point, senior in presentation, form, skating skills, and most of the even “higher level” juniors aren’t on the same plane. I’m not one of those who go on about how a skater should compete with the “big guns” (whatever they are) but his skills might have been more appreciated on the senior Grand Prix.

And he could have gotten the SA host pick :biggrin:

Tavi... · Sep 8, 2019

el henry said:
I see what you mean. At first I was happy Andrew was skating junior, because I thought he would have the chance to shine.

But he is simply, at this point, senior in presentation, form, skating skills, and most of the even “higher level” juniors aren’t on the same plane. I’m not one of those who go on about how a skater should compete with the “big guns” (whatever they are) but his skills might have been more appreciated on the senior Grand Prix.

And he could have gotten the SA host pick

Without knowing what’s causing the inconsistency it’s hard to say for sure, but I think he’s probably better off in juniors this year.

I noticed that in both of his programs he has a lot of transitions - the goal seems to be jumps that appear to come out of nowhere. Which is great, but I’m wondering if it’s too much for him right now, ie if he’d land the jumps more consistently if they backed off the transitions a bit. That’s just one possibility though. It could be this was just one of those competitions and he’ll do brilliantly at the next one.

I do think that his PCS will be higher even as a junior if he skates clean (see Kostornaia).

haribobo · Sep 10, 2019

Top Junior Men scores thus far- (and top novice scores)

Ilia Malinin 201.84 Philadelphia E (intl) (also 201.72 @ JGP)
Maxim Naumov 192.78 Cranberry E (179.15 @ JGP)
Matthew Nielsen (186.71 @ JGP) 170.72 Broadmoor Open M
Eric Sjoberg 183.91 Glacier Falls P
Joseph Klein (182.88 @ JGP) /150.73 Broadmoor (Novice) M
Liam Kapeikis 180.96 Seattle Ice Fest P (162.33 @ JGP)
Nicholas Hsieh 174.09 Skate Wilmington E
Goku Endo 170.48 Glacier Falls P
Daniel Martynov 170.16 Southport (Novice) M
William Annis 162.75 Cranberry E
Daniel Argueta 157.57 Detroit M
Eric Prober 152.10 Philadelphia E
Lucas Altieri 151.99 Broadmoor E

SENIOR MEN top summer club comp scores-

Jimmy Ma 219 Detroit E
Andrew Torgashev 212 Philadelphia M (196.23 @ JGP)
Ryan Dunk 209 Glacier Falls E (188.39 @ JGP)
Alexei Krasnozhon 208 Detroit (bye to Nats)
Sean Rabbitt 205 Golden West P
Dinh Tran 197 Detroit P
Joonsoo Kim 192 Collegiate P
Sebastien Payannet 189 Golden West P
Camden Pulkinen 186 Philadelphia M
Daniel Kulenkamp 181 Golden West P

TBD: Nathan Chen, Jason Brown, Vincent Zhou, Tomoki Hiwatashi

el henry · Sep 10, 2019

Alex Krasnozhon is officially listed as the third US man at Skate America

https://www.2019skateamerica.com/athletes

(H/T to @AlexKBiggestFan in the Fan Fest for the tip).

As I said in the Fan Fest, I am really looking forward to the growth of Alex K.'s programs. They are strong, passionate, and tailored to Alex K.'s strengths. Kudos to Alex Johnson for knowing his skater :clap:

shine · Sep 11, 2019

Ice Dance said:
You see a lot of people making a successful transition into the top 5 in U.S. Ice Dance while entering the discipline at the age 18 do you?

The sample size is very small so it’s hard to say? Also not everyone has very exceptional non-jump skills the way Andrew does.

mrrice · Sep 11, 2019

shine said:
The sample size is very small so it’s hard to say? Also not everyone has very exceptional non-jump skills the way Andrew does.

Is Andrew a Senior now? If so, he really has a tough road ahead if he doesn't overcome his jump issues. The top 3 Men are just as artistic and very seasoned competitors. I wish him the best as he really is a beautiful skater.

Ice Dance · Sep 11, 2019

shine said:
The sample size is very small so it’s hard to say? Also not everyone has very exceptional non-jump skills the way Andrew does.

It's not hard to say. The answer is that no one is making it onto the World team in U.S. or Russian ice dance right now unless he/she/they have been doing this a LONG time.

And U.S. athletes without a lengthy background in ice dance are not getting a top notch partner because the top notch dancers are looking to 1. trade up or 2. find someone who can compete for a country that is not deep in ice dance.

Now, if Torgashev happens to have Japanese or Australian or Turkish or Israeli or Armenian citizenship or something from somewhere other than the U.S. or Russia, yes. Then he might be able to make a strong argument based on his skating skills.

But, look. The U.S. dance field currently has 2 World silver medalist teams + 2 Junior World gold medal teams + 1 Junior World silver medal team + 1 half Junior World gold medal team/half Junior World 6th place finisher team. And 1 Junior World 4th place finishing team moving up in the next few seasons.

That is the competitive portion of the U.S. Senior ice dance field right now.

Could Torgashev partner up with someone and earn a CS? Yes. Could they work really hard & get a host spot at SA? Yeah, it's possible. Could they maybe possibly after years of hard work collecting World Standing points get themselves onto the GP via their own skating? Yes. But the odds of making a World team are not better against this particular field of ice dancers than they are of making it in the U.S. men's singles field without a triple axel.

Tavi... · Sep 11, 2019

A move to ice dance wouldn’t necessarily solve his problems if the issue isn’t really the jumps. And I saw Andrew land a very good quad in isolation at Peggy Fleming, after the competition was over.

I don’t know his skating well enough to say his real issue is with competing or handling pressure, but it could be. It could also be something that can be solved with fewer or different different transitions in his programs, or a better competition day routine. Or something else.

I’m sure he and his team are working hard to figure out and overcome whatever is holding him back. It would be great to see him do well at his next competition.

ice coverage · Sep 11, 2019

Tavi... said:
A move to ice dance wouldn’t necessarily solve his problems if the issue isn’t really the jumps. And I saw Andrew land a very good quad in isolation at Peggy Fleming, after the competition was over.

I don’t know his skating well enough to say his real issue is with competing or handling pressure, but it could be. It could also be something that can be solved with fewer or different different transitions in his programs, or a better competition day routine. Or something else.

I’m sure he and his team are working hard to figure out and overcome whatever is holding him back. It would be great to see him do well at his next competition.

Agree with all that you have said.

Plus Andrew won Aerial Challenge, so hope springs eternal (at least for me) that his jumping can become more consistent in competition. :pray:

shine said:
Has Andrew ever considered Ice Dance? I think he would actually make a successful transition if he could find the right partner, though that's a big if.

I am a big fan of Andrew the singles skater, so I am not saying that I want him to switch to ice dance.

But as a theoretical discussion:
Your original post referred to ice dance -- without saying anything about representing the U.S. in dance.
So if/if/if Andrew wanted to pursue ice dance, it would not be unthinkable (IMO) for him to follow a path similar to Tim Koleto's? Tim was age 21 when he switched from singles (in the U.S.) to ice dance (representing countries other than the U.S.).

skylark · Sep 14, 2019

Congratulations to Camden Pulkinen for two beautiful skates and a successful, well-deserved finish at Autumn Classic!

I particularly loved :love:

Camden's SP.

tosca · Sep 15, 2019

skylark said:
Congratulations to Camden Pulkinen for two beautiful skates and a successful, well-deserved finish at Autumn Classic!

I particularly loved Camden's SP.

Loved Camden’s programs. Very excited to see him hopefully land his quad toe successfully in the future. That being said, he needs to go to a spin coach ASAP.

2019-20 U.S. Men's Figure Skating

TontoK

Hot Tonto

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.

shine

Ice Dance

truthbooth

readernick

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.

Bluediamonds09

Tavi...

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.

Tavi...

haribobo

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.

shine

mrrice

Ice Dance

Tavi...

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605

skylark

Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset

tosca

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