2019-20 Russian Pairs' figure skating | Golden Skate

2019-20 Russian Pairs' figure skating

flanker

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Feb 10, 2018
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Czech-Republic
Yesterday GP entries were announced so I think that is a "casus belli" for creating a thread for russian pairs for the 2019-20 season.

GP entries for pais can be found here.

We can see all three most succesful russian pairs from the last season in GP:
Tarasova/Morozov - Skate Canada and Rostelecom
Zabiiako/Enbert - Skate America and IdF
Boikova/Kozlovskii - Skate Canada and Rostelecom

Another pairs in GP:
Pavliuchenko/Khodykin - Skate America and IdF
Mishina/Galliamov - IdF and NHK
Efimova/Korovin - Cup of China

Plus there is one empty spot at Rostelecom still.

So, what are your thoughts about the chances of the russian pairs for the upcoming seson? Not just GP, but all competitions? What about the chances of Mishina/Galliamov in comparison with Pavliuchenko/Khodykin or even Boikova/Kozlovskii?
 

anonymoose_au

Insert weird opinion here
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Feb 22, 2014
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Backing T/M all the way! I'm very excited to see what they do in the new season. Charlie White has choreographed one of their programs this season! (The SP, I think?)

Alas their two events are in terrible time zones for me, but I hope to be able to see the Russian Test skates.

I'm also interested to see how Ksenia S and her new partner do. I'm watching some of the 2017-18 season and it's a shame she and Feodor didn't get to the Olympics :(
 

SnowWhite

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Nov 30, 2016
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Canada
Maybe that's why they wait with the announcement - how well they will look like during training/test skates?

I wonder if he's been released yet though. Because Ilyushechkina/Bilodeau are a new team with similar conditions (one partner was top 6 at Worlds in the last 10 years), but they already have 2 spots. I would think that Russia could have got one non-host spot for Stolbova/Novoselov if they had been released already. But Russia does have a lot of pairs to prioritize, so we'll see.
 

hanca

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Empty spot at Rostelecom - Is there a chance for Stolbova&Novoselov???

I think if he was released we would have heard of it. The fact that we haven’t heard anything doesn’t look good. That means he is not able to attend GP.
 

hanca

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
So, what are your thoughts about the chances of the russian pairs for the upcoming seson? Not just GP, but all competitions? What about the chances of Mishina/Galliamov in comparison with Pavliuchenko/Khodykin or even Boikova/Kozlovskii?
I think Boikova/Kozlovskii have managed to get firmly into Russians number three spot. Mishina/Galliamov and Pavliuschenko/Khodykin will be fighting for 4th place in Russian pairs (one of the pairs will be fourth and one fifth). Being fourth is still quite important because they would be only one withdrawal away from being send to Europeans and worlds. my bet would be on Pavliuschenko/Khodykin, if they have better programs than last season and if they are working on their skating skills. Last year they looked a bit lost in the senior field, but that could be fixed within a few months if they work on it. Efimova/Korovin are beautiful to watch, but because of her inconsistency with jumps, they are falling through Russian ranking. Now they still will be sixth pair, but with other Russian junior pairs coming through every year, I don’t think E/K have a chance to get ever to Europeans and worlds.

This season there are two more pairs who aged out of juniors - Poluyanova/Sopot and Kudriavtseva/Spiridonov. Poluyanova/Sopot probably won’t go too far. Some rumour at the Russian forum suggested that they may not skate together any more; not sure if it is true. In any case, she is too tall and the last season their results were not that great for Russian standards. Kudriavtseva/Spiridonov could be promising, if she gets her throw jumps stable. Lina got into unfortunate habit of popping her throws and it is quite expensive pointwise. I can’t see them get in Russian top six pairs this season, but in the future, who knows. Although their time is not unlimited; Russian pairs could potentially get overcrowded the same way as Russian ladies field did. The best time is to make their names known now, because with every year it could get harder.

Re: Stolbova/Novoselov, I won’t believe that it will happen until I see them actually competing. Seeing how much trouble Massot had to get released from France, I don’t think Novoselov will have it any easier. And the current situation in Russian pairs is very different from the situation in German’s pairs a few years ago. Everyone in Germany was keen to help Savchenko because they didn’t really have any decent pairs. Russia does have decent pairs so they won’t be as desperate to help with paying or negotiating.
 

flanker

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Feb 10, 2018
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Czech-Republic
As for Poluianova, I think she should not have a problem to find a new partner if they really split up with Sopot. he will have it harder I think.

Efimova/Korovin should gain more stability, with consistency they could easily be among top russian pairs.

Also, there are juniors. Kostiukovich/Ialin will have one more junior year, according to interview posted here recently. They are technically above the rest of russian junior pairs, but to be honest I never enjoyed their skating much. But despite that, they could win next JGPF and WJC, if they won't make mistake like this season. There are of course also Panfilova/Rylov, who are great in everything but triple jumps. If they want to be on the top, they need to add them finally. And third strong junior pair are Akhanteva/Kolesov, who were great at both JGP events but 4th place at JGPF was probably disappointment for them. Later they had to withdraw from russian junior nationals due to ilness.
 

hanca

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Joined
Sep 23, 2008
As for Poluianova, I think she should not have a problem to find a new partner if they really split up with Sopot. he will have it harder I think.


Efimova/Korovin should gain more stability, with consistency they could easily be among top russian pairs.

Also, there are juniors. Kostiukovich/Ialin will have one more junior year, according to interview posted here recently. They are technically above the rest of russian junior pairs, but to be honest I never enjoyed their skating much. But despite that, they could win next JGPF and WJC, if they won't make mistake like this season. There are of course also Panfilova/Rylov, who are great in everything but triple jumps. If they want to be on the top, they need to add them finally. and third strong junior pair are Akhanteva/Kolesov, who were great at goth JGP events but 4th place at JGPF was probably disappointment for them. Later they had to withdraw from russian junior nationals due to ilness.

I actually disagree with your post re: Poluyanova and Sopot. I think he would find a new partner quite easily because men are always needed and much worse male pair skaters found partners too. But Poluyanova got too tall and there is not as many tall male skaters, and even the tall ones would prefer shorter lady if they have a choice. So if Poluyanova/Sopot split up, it will be Poluyanova who will end up partnerless. A bit like Davankova struggled to find a partner for pairs, then she skated one season with Enbert and he dumped her at first opportunity.

Efimova/Korovin are not likely to find stability if they didn’t manage it in the past four years. Efimova’s jumps remain the same as they have always been, so it won’t miraculously fix itself.
 

flanker

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Feb 10, 2018
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I actually disagree with your post re: Poluyanova and Sopot. I think he would find a new partner quite easily because men are always needed and much worse male pair skaters found partners too. But Poluyanova got too tall and there is not as many tall male skaters, and even the tall ones would prefer shorter lady if they have a choice. So if Poluyanova/Sopot split up, it will be Poluyanova who will end up partnerless. A bit like Davankova struggled to find a partner for pairs, then she skated one season with Enbert and he dumped her at first opportunity.

Efimova/Korovin are not likely to find stability if they didn’t manage it in the past four years. Efimova’s jumps remain the same as they have always been, so it won’t miraculously fix itself.

Good point about "more women for less men", but when I take Mishina/Mirzoev as an example, it was her who has found good partner despite she was considered "too heavy", while Mirzoev don't have a partner yet if I'm not mistaken. I know that male pair skaters like Galliamov, who is tall, strong and yet still jumps well are rare, but there is still a chance :)
 

hanca

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Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Good point about "more women for less men", but when I take Mishina/Mirzoev as an example, it was her who has found good partner despite she was considered "too heavy", while Mirzoev don't have a partner yet if I'm not mistaken. I know that male pair skaters like Galliamov, who is tall, strong and yet still jumps well are rare, but there is still a chance :)
That’s not quite accurate what you wrote about Mishina/Mirzoev.
Firstly, Mirzoev is quite small for a pair skater male (178cm). So his choice of partners was always going to be limited. Compare it with 188cm tall Sopot and you can see that Sopot will have much bigger choice of potential partners.
Secondly, Mirzoev was quite picky about having a partner of certain weight, which was not possible for any post puberty female unless she is anorexic. He wanted Mishina to be very low weight and that was just not possible. In comparison, Sopot skates with a partner who is definitely not an underweight prepubescent girl. That suggest that if picking a new partner, he would be fine with a partner with ‘an average pair skater weight’. At least nothing indicates that he would expect his nearly adult partner to weigh the same as a 13 year old. So again, that suggest that Sopot will have a bigger choice than Mirzoev had.
And lastly, even Mirzoev with his ridiculous ideas about his new partner’s size managed to find a partner. He teamed up with a girl who was 12 or 13, but it didn’t progress anywhere because he was injured and it seems it was career ending injury. He had some surgery and then he retird. I don’t remember if it was his knee or his back. Saying that, ageing out of junior and pairing up with a girl who had a few years before she would be senior eligible and then she would still have to ho through puberty...I didn’t expect this to get anywhere. But Sopot is definitely in a completely different situation.
 

flanker

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That’s not quite accurate what you wrote about Mishina/Mirzoev...

...but I don't see any inaccuracy I have made. I know the situation you described but that doesn't change anything I've written. If Mirzoev is smaller than average for pair skater, than Mishina is defintely "bigger" (not taller but more woman) than typical pair lady of her age, so I can easily say that field of potential partners with ideal proportions is limited for both of them, and for Mishina it is even harder because there is generally less male pair skaters, while pair ladies who could fit to Mirzoev don't seem to be so rare, there is definitely more ladies like Kostiukovich or Pavliuchenko who could fit to Mirzoev physically (and didn't need to be 12 or so) than men like Galliamov. But when I was referring to chances of Poluianova, I was talking about skills which seemed o me higher with her than with Sopot. That's subjective, of course, but I saw him mostly as too rigid or stiff, that's why I have the idea that he may have troubles to find a partner who would fit to him.
 

hanca

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Joined
Sep 23, 2008
...but I don't see any inaccuracy I have made. I know the situation you described but that doesn't change anything I've written. If Mirzoev is smaller than average for pair skater, than Mishina is defintely "bigger" (not taller but more woman) than typical pair lady of her age, so I can easily say that field of potential partners with ideal proportions is limited for both of them, and for Mishina it is even harder because there is generally less male pair skaters, while pair ladies who could fit to Mirzoev don't seem to be so rare, there is definitely more ladies like Kostiukovich or Pavliuchenko who could fit to Mirzoev physically (and didn't need to be 12 or so) than men like Galliamov. But when I was referring to chances of Poluianova, I was talking about skills which seemed o me higher with her than with Sopot. That's subjective, of course, but I saw him mostly as too rigid or stiff, that's why I have the idea that he may have troubles to find a partner who would fit to him.

You compared situation with Poluyanova/Sopot to situation between Mishina/Mirzoev. Thinking that Poluyanova will have it easier to find a partner than Sopot based on the fact that Mishina was more successful in her new partnership than Mirzoev is not very accurate. It is like comparing apples and oranges. Mishina is not heavier than other female skaters that went through puberty. She has an average figure for female pair skater. It was Mirzoev who expected her to be unreasonable size, but that doesn’t make her any bigger.

You are right that Sopot is quite stiff, but that doesn’t seem to prevent pair males do well. Massot has always seemed to me quite stiff, before Aliona worked with him. I think Sopot’s chances are much higher than Poluyanova’s. But there is another dimension to this. Poluyanova and Sopot used to be a couple even off ice. Not sure if they are still together or not, but if they are, it is not likely that he would split up with her on ice. On the other hand, if they split up off ice, they may not be able to skate together any more.
 

coldblueeyes

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Oct 25, 2014
Country
Brazil
Well, I hope Mishina/Galliamov can make a splash on the senior scene. And also develop their skating skills, because they have good elements in the works.

I wouldn't mind seeing the same three pairs making up the Russian team. I think they all competed valiantly this season.
 

hanca

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Because Russia has now quite a few decent pairs, I wish they spread the spots for championships a bit. For example, to worlds send the top three pairs from the nationals, but to Europeans send first, fourth and fifth pair to give them also a chance to build up their reputation. Or fourth, fifth and sixth...
 

LRK

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Nov 13, 2012
@flanker - Thanks for creating the thread!:)

Interesting discussion already - it's great that the Russian pair field is so deep. Myself, I'll of course be cheering for my Favourites Boikova/Kozlovskii.:)

Also, I concur with those doubting that Novoselov has been released. Prizing anything out of DG's clutches is never easy.. The best scenario would be if the Rus fed had some kind of bargaining chip - if there was a Russian skater that the French fed wanted, they could make an exchange.

The pair I'm curious about, though, is Ustimkina/Rogonov. Does anyone know if they mean to compete - this season, or at all? or just continue to do shows? (I believe they were at Fantasy on Ice.)
 

hanca

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Sep 23, 2008
Also, I concur with those doubting that Novoselov has been released. Prizing anything out of DG's clutches is never easy.. The best scenario would be if the Rus fed had some kind of bargaining chip - if there was a Russian skater that the French fed wanted, they could make an exchange.

The pair I'm curious about, though, is Ustimkina/Rogonov. Does anyone know if they mean to compete - this season, or at all? or just continue to do shows? (I believe they were at Fantasy on Ice.)

I think there was a plan to exchange a skater for another skater. French ice dancer Abatchkina needed a partner and she was trying out with Russian skater Drozd. So it would be either Drozd with Abatchkina skating for France and Novoselov skating for Russia, or Stolbova skating for France and Abatchkina skating with Drozd for Russia. Then Abatchkina/Drozd realised that the French federation won’t go for it, so they split up. I don’t think there is any other French skater who needs a partner, and even if there was, why would French federation went for it if they didn’t go with the previous exchange?

I don’t think Utimkina/Rogonov will come back to competition. I don’t think think they have a chance to get to top five Russian pairs, and from their photos it seems they are really enjoying the life with shows, travelling etc.
 

NAOTMAA

Medalist
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Nov 9, 2014
The Russian fed. sending M/G and P/K to France is definitely a test to see who is #4. They could have sent one of them to China instead (where as the sole Russian team they would have been #1) and give E/K the third spot in France but they didn't. Whoever comes out on top will certainly head into nationals with the advantage. I guess they didn't want to wait.

I can't decide if B/K competing against T/M twice is good or bad, there are definite positives and negatives. It certainly benefits Z/E more then it does either B/K or T/M and puts off the race for #2 until later in the season.

Overall I do think its a sign that the Russian fed. see the top 3 as T/M, Z/E and B/K and will keep it that way unless things happen. If the fed. were uncertain about B/K they would probably have tried to find a way to put them up against either P/K or M/G at least once.
 

hanca

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Sep 23, 2008
For the moment Zabijako/Enbert are safe with their number 2 spot. The worlds bronze medal will give them credit with the Russian federation. Without it the Russian federation might have been inclined to push Boikova/Kozlovski, thinking that Z/E had enough chances which they didn’t take, but now with the worlds medal, Z/E is safe. It doesn’t really matter how B/K will score against Z/E internationally, now Z/E will be supported. I remember when Tarasova/Morozov were on the rise, even if they were placing better at the international competitions than Stolbova/Klimov, at the domestic competitions including the nationals S/K were getting the benefit of the doubt. At one nationals T/M were clearly better, but S/K were still perceived to have higher ranking at home and they got better placement at the nationals as a gift for Christmas. Undeserved. It took a while (and having significantly better results internationally) before Russian federation accepted that T/M got better than S/K. Now it will take a while to accept when B/K is better than Z/E. It feels like in ladies and men the Russian judges are more willing to go based on the actual performance and change the internal ranking every year, whereas in ice dance and pairs the reputation/the internal ranking matters a lot and they are much more set into stone/not as easily changed.
 

TheBallerina

#teamtutberidze
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Mar 30, 2018
Flanker, thank you so much for this thread! :thumbsup:

I am a big fan of russian pairs, and I must confess my first reaction after seeing the GP entries was like: Oh, tough field for Mishina/Galliamov. :sad21: I know, it was expected, as they are battlying for the 4st place in the Russian pairs hierarchy, and I really hope to see them improving next seasons and slowly climbing up in the standings. I hope they will keep their consistency from the junior years while developing all the sides of their skating, I think they have a great work attitude and lots of potential.

I always loved Boikova/Kozlovskii, and after an amazing 1st senior year, they secured their place as the third Russian pair and I am sure they won't stop here. The chances for a GPF are way higher now, and it is so well-deserved (it broke my heart that they weren't there last year, but that did not stop them, on the contrary, they only kept working and we could see the results afterwards). I am sure they will work hard this off-season to up their levels (e.g. that death spiral) and I am excited to see how will they look next season!

Zabiiako/Enbert, even if somehow in the shadow of Tarasova/Morozov, have improved a lot and dared to get out of their confort zone in order to do so (see their SP from last season, yes I was one of the few people who liked it and I am not ashamed to say so:biggrin:) , and just by looking at their results from the last 2-3 years it's so clear that they are getting better and better. I hope they will continue this trend, I still see them more polished than B/K, but the latter have such a huge motivation and potential that anything can happen.

Count me in for Tarasova/Morozov's fan club, I was always their fan and I will continue to support them. I just want to see them consistent, with great programs, because for me their pair elements are the best in the world. I wish to see them winning a big title next season! :pray:

I totally see T/M, Z/E and B/K in the GPF, and I still have hopes that one from P/K and M/G can also sneak in but it will be very difficult.

The Russian junior pairs are always a joy to watch, and probably will dominate the field this season, too. K/I come already with a big resume, the last season's ending was a little bit tough for them, but I am sure they will come back even more motivated, and I really like their program choices! They are a courageous pair, totally different in style to others, and this makes them unique, they have the star factor and need to strenghten their position for a future senior year. A/K , their teammates, can give them a run for their money, they are a lovely pair, and ofc P/R are so amazing in everything they do, they just need that triple SBS jump and I really wanna see it!
 
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