2019-20 Russian Pairs' figure skating | Page 14 | Golden Skate

2019-20 Russian Pairs' figure skating

NAOTMAA

Medalist
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
I’m not sure anyone can beat s/h right now, but I surely enjoy seeing baby russian pairs really making a move this season. Quite a confident move from juniors to seniors, and B/K are really establishing themselves as one of the leading pairs. A lot of them are still VERY young, with time and improvements bigger marks will come.

And that's why all this talk about dumping T/M is frankly pure delusion. The baby teams are doing fantastic but they still got A LOT of learning and growing to experience. Remember they are still in their teens and the majority of pairs don't start hitting their stride (and become top contenders) until their mid-20s.

Right now the only team Russia has that can realistically (on paper and on ice) compete head to head with S/H is T/M. PERIOD! The future for Russia is set (baring any terrible happenings, knock on wood) but if they want world titles now (and they do!) they have to keep backing T/M. The other teams like it or not still have to pay their dues nationally and internationally.

T/M is a curious thing ... they were very consistent .. there body didn't change that much and they didn't really have competition in russia .. and them they begin to fail

Remember S/K were suppose to be the #1 for the last quad and in Korea but injury and troubles forced them out quickly. T/M were forced to handle the burden as Russia #1 far sooner then expected. They never got to experience much time as the supporting act. So they just weren't mentally ready to handle the pressure and still haven't learned how to. It's kind of like all those Russian men of the past ten years who have the talent but got crushed by the expectations put onto them too soon. Things possibly might have been different if S/K had been around till 2018 and T/M start as the #1 in this quad, or S/K still around and T/M fighting to overtake them.
 

LadyB

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 7, 2016
Even I have to say that I don't believe anyone can beat S/H. It would take the combination of an absolutely extraordinary day for T/M and a bad day for S/H for that to happen. Stranger things have happened, but I cannot imagine it. B/K are ace as shooting stars, but I don't think they have reached that level yet.
 

Lana05

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 1, 2016
Even I have to say that I don't believe anyone can beat S/H. It would take the combination of an absolutely extraordinary day for T/M and a bad day for S/H for that to happen. Stranger things have happened, but I cannot imagine it. B/K are ace as shooting stars, but I don't think they have reached that level yet.

I believe that S/H are highly overhyped here. They won at HOME event where there were no big names beside them. With fair judging on neutral land Russian pairs can win everybody.
 

Artemisa

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 15, 2017
Even I have to say that I don't believe anyone can beat S/H. It would take the combination of an absolutely extraordinary day for T/M and a bad day for S/H for that to happen. Stranger things have happened, but I cannot imagine it. B/K are ace as shooting stars, but I don't think they have reached that level yet.

I disagree in the part of T/M ... if both teams skate clean is a open battle because this year T/M have good programs in the SP and LP ... B/K aren't there yet maybe because of the music choice LP ... in the SP I think they have a shot to become close
 

LadyB

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 7, 2016
I believe that S/H are highly overhyped here. They won at HOME event where there were no big names beside them. With fair judging on neutral land Russian pairs can win everybody.

I disagree in the part of T/M ... if both teams skate clean is a open battle because this year T/M have good programs in the SP and LP ... B/K aren't there yet maybe because of the music choice LP ... in the SP I think they have a shot to become close

And nobody would be happier than me if you both are right! :agree:
 

starla16

Medalist
Joined
Feb 3, 2017
Remember S/K were suppose to be the #1 for the last quad and in Korea but injury and troubles forced them out quickly. T/M were forced to handle the burden as Russia #1 far sooner then expected. They never got to experience much time as the supporting act. So they just weren't mentally ready to handle the pressure and still haven't learned how to.

so like Shiskova / Naumov, fillers for the transitining years
 

coldblueeyes

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 25, 2014
Country
Brazil
I'd say the potential for T/M is there, tho. They have the best set of programs they've ever had, and they have the GOE advantage over S/H in some elements, in the same way S/H also have in others. But T/M really need to hit all the notes in their programs.
 

readernick

Medalist
Joined
Dec 5, 2015
I'd say the potential for T/M is there, tho. They have the best set of programs they've ever had, and they have the GOE advantage over S/H in some elements, in the same way S/H also have in others. But T/M really need to hit all the notes in their programs.

The issue really isn't quality of elements. T/M have great quality and great basic SS. The problem is that they don't perform well. If S/H have a clean program their performance quality is amazing along with their technical elements. I can see T/M winning the short program internationally. But, if they both skate a clean long, I believe S/H will be ahead of them by a significant amount. ( notice the result of last year's worlds when both teams were close to clean)

But, ice is slippery. Anything can happen on any given day. T/M just need to focus on improving their scores ( which have been extremely mediocre so far this year) rather than focusing on a head to head match up with S/H.
 

Artemisa

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 15, 2017
The issue really isn't quality of elements. T/M have great quality and great basic SS. The problem is that they don't perform well. If S/H have a clean program their performance quality is amazing along with their technical elements. I can see T/M winning the short program internationally. But, if they both skate a clean long, I believe S/H will be ahead of them by a significant amount. ( notice the result of last year's worlds when both teams were close to clean)

But, ice is slippery. Anything can happen on any given day. T/M just need to focus on improving their scores ( which have been extremely mediocre so far this year) rather than focusing on a head to head match up with S/H.

Well .. for a repeting FS .. the TES wasn't that great ... so T/M have a shot if they skate clean
 

coldblueeyes

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 25, 2014
Country
Brazil
I don't think S/H are unbeatable, but from here until 2022 they are going to receive all the gifts they can--and I have nothing against that, I do believe they are the pair to beat this cycle. T/M have the material this year, tho. And I've said this before, but I really want them to compete well with these programs, so their team can see that they deserve this kind of treatment, that they can shine with the right packaging. It would be terrible if now that they got the two programs that could land them on the top of the podium they won't be able to deliver.
 

LRK

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 13, 2012
And that's why all this talk about dumping T/M is frankly pure delusion. The baby teams are doing fantastic but they still got A LOT of learning and growing to experience. Remember they are still in their teens and the majority of pairs don't start hitting their stride (and become top contenders) until their mid-20s.

Right now the only team Russia has that can realistically (on paper and on ice) compete head to head with S/H is T/M. PERIOD! The future for Russia is set (baring any terrible happenings, knock on wood) but if they want world titles now (and they do!) they have to keep backing T/M. The other teams like it or not still have to pay their dues nationally and internationally.



Remember S/K were suppose to be the #1 for the last quad and in Korea but injury and troubles forced them out quickly. T/M were forced to handle the burden as Russia #1 far sooner then expected. They never got to experience much time as the supporting act. So they just weren't mentally ready to handle the pressure and still haven't learned how to. It's kind of like all those Russian men of the past ten years who have the talent but got crushed by the expectations put onto them too soon. Things possibly might have been different if S/K had been around till 2018 and T/M start as the #1 in this quad, or S/K still around and T/M fighting to overtake them.

Just to note that I don't think there is a whole lot of talk about dumping T/M - unless meaning that one person is doing a whole lot of talking.;)

I don't think anyone with a realistic view of Russian pairs really doubts that T/M are still the no 1 pair.
 

saturdaysun

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 13, 2018
I believe that S/H are highly overhyped here. They won at HOME event where there were no big names beside them. With fair judging on neutral land Russian pairs can win everybody.

S/H are two-time world champions. They've podium'ed at nearly every event they've entered since juniors. Home ice is irrelevant to their ability to win.

T/M have never beaten S/H in a head to head competition.

Not that S/H are unbeatable of course. T/M almost did it last year at Worlds. Even MT/M almost beat them at 4CC this year.
 

Artemisa

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 15, 2017
S/H are two-time world champions. They've podium'ed at nearly every event they've entered since juniors. Home ice is irrelevant to their ability to win.

T/M have never beaten S/H in a head to head competition.

Not that S/H are unbeatable of course. T/M almost did it last year at Worlds. Even MT/M almost beat them at 4CC this year.

Home ice is never irrelevant ...
 

nussnacker

one and only
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 16, 2019
Home ice is never irrelevant ...
I have to disagree.
I think the difference between S/H and T/M is not really in quality of elements, both pairs are technically excellent (when they deliver), maybe I’d even give an edge to T/M technically.
However, where S/H surpass them is I think having more ice-dance features and interesting transitions in between elements, as well as Sui’s performance factor. She’s flirty (with the audience), confident, sassy. Han has it too, but I think Sui just outshines him :) It’s easy to find programs that fit her and highlight their strengths as a team.
Evgenia in my eyes is a little more on the shy reserved side. And I think it’s a little more challenging to find programs that fit them. I think, considering that technical elements isn’t really their primary concern, their move to Zoueva makes perfect sense. I think they went to her to get the “ice dance” into their programs, as well as find a style that would fit both Evgenia and Vladimir best. + Zoueva has experience in coaching pairs too, in addition to her extensive ice dance coach resume.
I don’t think it’s fair to expect T/M to deliver amazingly, given they’ve changed coaches fairly recently. But I do believe they’re on the right path, and at euro and worlds we will see the results.
 

Artemisa

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 15, 2017
To their ability to win? Of course it is. Their track record proves they can and have won everywhere in the world, not just at home. Their worst GP result ever was at Cup of China in 2011.

No one is putting in check there ability to win in every field .... they are nowadays the nº1 in the world.... but they were far from perfect in the FS in the cup of china (if you compare to the worlds and is a program that they already know) ... Home ice is important to carrots in the scores (aka PCS) ... and even if a every competition is a different competition .. judges are influenced by past competitions ... if T/M can beat that score in russia ( if they skate clean) that means they have a chance to beat S/H .. if even in a russian field they can't get there probably there chances will be very slim to beat them in a neutral field ...

Home ice ... Just look at the scores in the different GP ( man, dance, pairs, women) and tell me that isn't a variation in scores that depends of the home ice ... if you skate clean .. home ice will give good scores ...
 

madforskating

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 11, 2017
At the moment, I don’t think anyone can beat a CLEAN Sui/Han. They have too much momentum and it would take several bad performances in a row to make those scores drop. If T/M want to catch them, all they can do is deliver great performances until their scores start to snowball, but it’s going to be tough. Personally, I wish they would go back to their free skate from last year because they seemed more comfortable with it/I liked it better, but at the end of the day, it comes down to jumps.

I do like Sui/Han (they’re good skaters and nice people, they have a funny relationship, and she’s sassy and has great hair), but I think their scores are slightly higher than they should be.
 
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