2019-20 Canadian Figure Skating

CanadianSkaterGuy · Jan 20, 2020

Osmond4gold said:
Perhaps Slipchuck needs reminding of his own skating career of being ''the other guy'' of Canadian mens skating, behind the greatness of Browning and Stojko.

TontoK said:
Not to mention his five World Championship placements range from a high of 7 (two spots below Kevin Reynolds' best placement) to a low of 20.

By his own logic, it was like he wasn't even there.

OMG, good point. :laugh:

So I did a bit of digging as to what happened at hiIn his Worlds appearances:

1987: Orser (1st), Browning (5th), Slipchuk (20th)
1989: Browning (1st), Slipchuk (9th)
1990: Browning (1st), Stojko (8th), Slipchuk (11th)
1991: Browning (1st), Stojko (7th), Slipchuk (8th)
1992: Browning (2nd), Stojko (3rd), Slipchuk (13th)

All shade to Slipchuk - but he was always the "other guy". So for him to complete dismiss other skaters (including ones who placed higher than him in 5 trips to Worlds) is ridiculous.

CanadianSkaterGuy · Jan 20, 2020

ladyjane said:
I don't see Nam getting to be 5th, and I distinctly recall him doing that. Or was that the year Patrick took time off?

That was a year that Chan took time off, Nam won the Canadian title and then came 5th at Worlds.

Which is another reason to be miffed by Slipchuk's statement. In years Chan didn't go to Worlds, skaters like Nguyen (5th in 2015) and Messing (8th in 2018) stepped up to retain 2 spots, and skaters like Reynolds skated well enough (combined with Chan's placement) to ensure Canada getting 3 spots after Worlds 2010, 2012, and 2013 (and almost 2017).

el henry · Jan 20, 2020

Arbitrary said:
Are Canadians ready to invite Tuktamisheva?

https://www.sport-express.ru/figure...hevoy-predlozhili-vystupat-za-kanadu-1633686/

invite where? What does this say? (Google translate is not working for me). Is it a known journalist or a random blogger?

Ice Dance · Jan 20, 2020

I think it is possible that his point was that most years Patrick was competing Patrick had already secured one berth (based on his own results in international competition) prior to Nationals taking place, and that SC never had to consciously make a decision there. It was poorly said regardless, but the rest of the article felt pretty logical. I still think it is possible that Soucisse & Firus could defeat Lajoie & Lagha at 4CCs and I'm not sure I would view a junior world title in dance to be a clear sign that a team is better than another one which has won silver at 4CCs in an Olympic year, plus S&F's results on the GP were actually higher than L&L's GP score from outside of Canada. But considering that S&F have fallen in at least 3 competitions this season, I think you could definitely say that even a higher finish at 4CCs wouldn't outweigh the more steady results for L&L. And what the man said does sound better than saying that.

Colonel Green · Jan 20, 2020

el henry said:
invite where? What does this say? (Google translate is not working for me). Is it a known journalist or a random blogger?

Phil Hersh made a joke about it and some Russian media outlet seems to have missed the humour element.

Ice Dance said:
I still think it is possible that Soucisse & Firus could defeat Lajoie & Lagha at 4CCs and I'm not sure I would view a junior world title in dance to be a clear sign that a team is better than another one which has won silver at 4CCs in an Olympic year, plus S&F's results on the GP were actually higher than L&L's GP score from outside of Canada. But considering that S&F have fallen in at least 3 competitions this season, I think you could definitely say that even a higher finish at 4CCs wouldn't outweigh the more steady results for L&L. And what the man said does sound better than saying that.

For the dance assignments, the rigidity of dance rankings makes that process a lot easier. Piper & Paul will keep two spots securely; Laurence & Nikolaj coming back is the only shot at keeping three.

This makes the third berth irrelevant from a placements perspective, as neither Marjorie & Zach or Carolane & Shane will realistically get an ordinal high enough to matter. So Skate Canada is free to do what they prefer to do and go with the nationals result. And if pressed I think they’d probably prefer Marjo & Zach anyway, from a grand strategy perspective these two are going to be Canada’s dance flagship post-Beijing, so getting them out there is good long-term.

slider11 · Jan 20, 2020

Colonel Green said:
Phil Hersh made a joke about it and some Russian media outlet seems to have missed the humour element.

For the dance assignments, the rigidity of dance rankings makes that process a lot easier. Piper & Paul will keep two spots securely; Laurence & Nikolaj coming back is the only shot at keeping three.

This makes the third berth irrelevant from a placements perspective, as neither Marjorie & Zach or Carolane & Shane will realistically get an ordinal high enough to matter. So Skate Canada is free to do what they prefer to do and go with the nationals result. And if pressed I think they’d probably prefer Marjo & Zach anyway, from a grand strategy perspective these two are going to be Canada’s dance flagship post-Beijing, so getting them out there is good long-term.

Good points here about neither Marjorie/Zach or Carolane/Shane likely contributing to a third spot. My preference in performance and style are Carolane and Shane but I think they have ramped up the attack-mode too much and now are error prone. But well-taken that Marjorie/Zach are the post-Olympic future and not a bad idea to get them on the World's scene.

Seven Sisters · Jan 20, 2020

el henry said:
invite where? What does this say? (Google translate is not working for me). Is it a known journalist or a random blogger?

Gosh, I hope Phil Hersh is not similarly disappointed by the US Ladies this week.

Though I for one would be delighted to see a lady who has mastered both high-level jumps and the art of connecting with an audience, compete on behalf of the US. In fact I think most skating nations would be delighted to have Tuktamysheva!!

Skater Boy · Jan 20, 2020

Maybe it is time to change things. Again, like another no shade against Michael Slipchuk but maybe he should be replaced. Regardless if the issues with Canadian skating is cyclical, fluke, a change may be good. In fact we know while it may not be the fault of the "coach" sometimes they lose their job. I agree yes it sad that Larkyn really never developed, Aurora a huge hope keeps getting injured, Gabby had health issue or has health issues mentally and physically, Nam grew a lot, Gilles and Poirier have just not caught on with the judge as fast we might have thought, SF looking hot and maybe would take over GP instead are going backwards. no man able to take control Roman's rise while wonderful just seems to add another person to guess - who should they send nam? messing? sadovsky? is this a temporary thing or what (roman's rise); why is the women's feield so weak or not growing - it has been ten years since Joannie's rise to the podium like Yuna's influence there should be some fruit hopefully. While KTM - M aren't horrible they aren't really a huge medal threat even in a weak field in the world. Though I think they could medal - it's Canada for worlds and they can beat the Russians and Peng and Jin and I think the French might be a bit rusty To be clear I do think GP for eg are doing great but for some reason it looked like they might make their move years ago but it didn't happen. Yes we can't blame Slipchuk directly but regardless maybe there needs to be new game plan. the once powerhouse is looking to miss the podium in the team event and that is like canada and the us in ladies hockey not winning medals.

peese · Jan 20, 2020

Slipchuk IS on his way out. Skate Canada is already in the hiring process to fill his position.

Seven Sisters · Jan 20, 2020

peese said:
Slipchuk IS on his way out. Skate Canada is already in the hiring process to fill his position.

Will the candidates have to undergo a trial by fire at Four Continents?

Sorry, couldn’t resist

peese · Jan 20, 2020

Seven Sisters said:
Will the candidates have to undergo a trial by fire at Four Continents?

Sorry, couldn’t resist

Good one!! Lol. Maybe they should!

Colonel Green · Jan 20, 2020

Skater Boy said:
why is the women's feield so weak or not growing - it has been ten years since Joannie's rise to the podium like Yuna's influence there should be some fruit hopefully.

Those situations are nothing alike. Kim Yu-na virtually founded the sport in South Korea, her success turned it from a niche into a real thing. Canada has never had a lack of girls learning to figure skate; the girls' competitions at club comps, sectionals, etc. are generally always the largest fields of the four disciplines. Rochette would not make a difference.

Scout · Jan 20, 2020

^^And not to diminish Joannie's accomplishments, but her rise to the podium was very different than Yuna's. Although Rochette skated senior for a few more years, Yuna was on EVERY podium...every GPF, every worlds, every Olympics she competed in. That sustained, high level constant success helps.

TontoK · Jan 20, 2020

Skater Boy said:
Maybe it is time to change things. Again, like another no shade against Michael Slipchuk but maybe he should be replaced. Regardless if the issues with Canadian skating is cyclical, fluke, a change may be good. In fact we know while it may not be the fault of the "coach" sometimes they lose their job. I agree yes it sad that Larkyn really never developed, Aurora a huge hope keeps getting injured, Gabby had health issue or has health issues mentally and physically, Nam grew a lot, Gilles and Poirier have just not caught on with the judge as fast we might have thought, SF looking hot and maybe would take over GP instead are going backwards. no man able to take control Roman's rise while wonderful just seems to add another person to guess - who should they send nam? messing? sadovsky? is this a temporary thing or what (roman's rise); why is the women's feield so weak or not growing - it has been ten years since Joannie's rise to the podium like Yuna's influence there should be some fruit hopefully. While KTM - M aren't horrible they aren't really a huge medal threat even in a weak field in the world. Though I think they could medal - it's Canada for worlds and they can beat the Russians and Peng and Jin and I think the French might be a bit rusty To be clear I do think GP for eg are doing great but for some reason it looked like they might make their move years ago but it didn't happen. Yes we can't blame Slipchuk directly but regardless maybe there needs to be new game plan. the once powerhouse is looking to miss the podium in the team event and that is like canada and the us in ladies hockey not winning medals.

I don't know about technical development. It seems like an awful lot of top Canadian coaches have foreign athletes as their #1 priority.

The French are top dogs at Gadbois. Brian has Yuzu. Now Gabby's coach will be taking on Vincent.

I think that strong daily competition is a good thing, but is there a Canadian skater who is their coach's top priority? It's an honest question, I'm really not all that sure about the coaching situation in Canada.

Orlov · Jan 20, 2020

Colonel Green said:
Phil Hersh made a joke about it and some Russian media outlet seems to have missed the humour element.

You are somewhat mistaken about the motives of the Russian media. In fact, they did not write about Hersh, but about Mishin, what he said - "I think we will listen politely, but as a true Russian, Liza will refuse the offer to change her citizenship". People like patriotic stuffs, and that's why Mishin said so, and the media wrote it. The media wrote about his response, not about this Hersh (who is this, what is this, and who is interested in it in Russia?)

Ice Dance · Jan 20, 2020

TontoK said:
I think that strong daily competition is a good thing, but is there a Canadian skater who is their coach's top priority? It's an honest question, I'm really not all that sure about the coaching situation in Canada.

Gilles & Poirier are #1 in their rink. Sales & Wamsteeker and Makita & Gunara are the top seniors & juniors in theirs. I believe Moore-Towers & Marinaro are number 1 in theirs.

Colonel Green · Jan 20, 2020

TontoK said:
I think that strong daily competition is a good thing, but is there a Canadian skater who is their coach's top priority? It's an honest question, I'm really not all that sure about the coaching situation in Canada.

Piper & Paul are probably the first thing Carol Lane thinks about when she gets up in the morning and the last before she goes to be at night. The major pairs are certainly the flagship athletes at Marcotte/Duhamel and Gauthier's respective camps. If you're a singles skater who doesn't train at the TCC (which describes five of the six people on this year's singles podiums) or a dancer who's not at Gadbois, odds are you're your coach's top priority.

Gadbois doesn't have the Canadian champs at the moment. Marie-France and co. have a bunch of long-term prospects who I expect they envision as being key players in the 2022-2026 quad, Marjorie & Zachary chief among them.

In terms of prioritizing Canadian talent, the TCC is marginal, but that's nothing new. You could write a pretty comprehensive account of the recent "golden age" in Canadian skating where Orser and the TCC were barely mentioned; they were not important players in it. The TCC is a great showcase for Canadian coaching and choreographic talent, and skating fans here like it for that reason, not because it was contributing to Canadian skaters' success in a big way.

Skater Boy · Jan 21, 2020

TontoK said:
I don't know about technical development. It seems like an awful lot of top Canadian coaches have foreign athletes as their #1 priority.

The French are top dogs at Gadbois. Brian has Yuzu. Now Gabby's coach will be taking on Vincent.

I think that strong daily competition is a good thing, but is there a Canadian skater who is their coach's top priority? It's an honest question, I'm really not all that sure about the coaching situation in Canada.

Good point. Marie France et Patrice focus on the French and Americans. I would be curious why Brian keeps losing the hopefuls - Nam, Gabby, Stephen,

Colonel Green · Jan 21, 2020

Skater Boy said:
I would be curious why Brian keeps losing the hopefuls - Nam, Gabby, Stephen,

Orser was never Gabrielle's primary coach; she left because Barkell left. Nam left because his growth and issues with his family made it a bad situation. Stephen left because, by Orser's own admission, his parents didn't think he was getting enough attention there.

el henry · Jan 21, 2020

Orlov said:
You are somewhat mistaken about the motives of the Russian media. In fact, they did not write about Hersh, but about Mishin, what he said - "I think we will listen politely, but as a true Russian, Liza will refuse the offer to change her citizenship". People like patriotic stuffs, and that's why Mishin said so, and the media wrote it. The media wrote about his response, not about this Hersh (who is this, what is this, and who is interested in it in Russia?)

Thank you, Orlov, but listen to what?
I am fairly conversant with North American media, and I have seen no reports of offers to Liza to change her citizenship. So I think I am understanding that this is a made up presumption: “what if” Liza were to get an offer, just like “what if” I were to land a quad axel tomorrow :biggrin:

2019-20 Canadian Figure Skating

CanadianSkaterGuy

CanadianSkaterGuy

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.

Ice Dance

Colonel Green

slider11

Seven Sisters

Skater Boy

peese

Seven Sisters

peese

Colonel Green

Scout

TontoK

Hot Tonto

Orlov

Ice Dance

Colonel Green

Skater Boy

Colonel Green

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.

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