Papadakis & Cizeron's Very Candid Interview re Olympics 2018 | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Papadakis & Cizeron's Very Candid Interview re Olympics 2018

Colonel Green

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^Rivals are different from DIRECT rivals.
No, I would call that a distinction without difference.

Gadbois currently hosts a ton of "direct rivals", to use your term. They just took on both of Hubbell/Donohue's main domestic rivals just last season. They've got three different senior Canadian teams battling it out for placements. Hubbell/Donohue, for that matter, have been open about their desire to challenge for first. And so on.

in the instances where it happens, nothing good comes out of it (e.g. D/W vs V/M, Med vs Zag).

And no, I would hardly consider Hanyu's transferal to TCC to be apples-to-apples comparison. P/C was arguably the frontrunner for gold. Wouldn't say the same for Fernandez.
Fernandez and Hanyu were both young skaters on the rise; Hanyu had just won a Worlds medal, Fernandez was on the brink of his. They were both strong podium contenders for Pyeongchang, and there were only three spots on that podium. And that dynamic worked. Just as I'd dispute the idea that having rivals train together is inherently bad. The example of Gadbois would also show that, since Marie-France et al. were successful in balancing the teams.

P/C themselves considered that the coaches were fair. They were well within their rights to object and go elsewhere, if they so chose, as ultimately each athlete has the sole ability to decide what sort of training environment works best for them (as was also the case in the final years of the Detroit dynasty, where I think Tessa and Scott were at fault for not dealing with their own escalating dissatisfaction with how things were going there -- I don't personally think Zueva did anything wrong either, but that environment wasn't working anymore, and V/M were the only ones who could make that choice for themselves).
 

WeakAnkles

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I disagree. Dubreil/Lauzon did a fantastic job at creating two teams that were equally gold-worthy with contrasting programs and vehicles that could win. It really came down to how each one skated, and you can't blame the coaches - who pushed both to personal bests. It's very unfortunate that P/C had the wardrobe malfunction. Even as a Canadian who loves V/M, I honestly think the French were the stronger team overall, and that mishap was the worst timing for them. I suppose the silver lining (no pun intended) is that this fuels them towards the next Olympics, and they have the potential to become one of the most winning ice dance teams ever, and produce even more avant garde sublime programs that really push ice dance into its next evolution. Had they and V/M left, you could have seen a decline in the quality and ingenuity of the teams and programs. They have so much to be proud of, as much as that Olympics experience was devastating for them.

There is really not much avant garde in their programs anymore. In fact, their style has pretty much become the norm.
 

WeakAnkles

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^Rivals are different from DIRECT rivals. Everyone is a rival in skating, but I have rarely seen coaches coaching DIRECT rivals, never mind taking on a direct rivalry for the Olympics. in the instances where it happens, nothing good comes out of it (e.g. D/W vs V/M, Med vs Zag).

And no, I would hardly consider Hanyu's transferal to TCC to be apples-to-apples comparison. P/C was arguably the frontrunner for gold. Wouldn't say the same for Fernandez.

By your reckoning then, coaches should only coach 1 team in a discipline, because otherwise they'd be coaching DIRECT rivals.

Sorry, but I just don't buy it.

Actually if you look at the history of gymnastics and figure skating, you'll see that many many champions had a direct rival they trained with on a daily basis. It might even be a key ingredient in that champion's success.
 

Ic3Rabbit

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^Rivals are different from DIRECT rivals. Everyone is a rival in skating, but I have rarely seen coaches coaching DIRECT rivals, never mind taking on a direct rivalry for the Olympics. in the instances where it happens, nothing good comes out of it (e.g. D/W vs V/M, Med vs Zag).

And no, I would hardly consider Hanyu's transferal to TCC to be apples-to-apples comparison. P/C was arguably the frontrunner for gold. Wouldn't say the same for Fernandez.

This has happened for decades with training centers: Taking on direct or possible direct rivals. Without training centers the sport takes another hit and dies more, there are only so many very elite coaches with particular specialties. Skaters are going to flock to those places.

Skaters always have the option to leave if they don't feel comfortable in their training center and it's not working with the coaches, or any other part of their training.
If they really were so unhappy about V/M being taken by MF and Patches then that's on them: Leave and create your own happiness and comfortable training environment. This was not solely P/C's training center, they moved in on others and were welcomed with open arms.

As a side note: I also call BS on the training environment they claim: If it was so bad then maybe it was in their heads or them making it that way, because that training center runs amazingly and all the teams are friendly, and get along respectfully on and off ice.
 

4everchan

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This has happened for decades with training centers: Taking on direct or possible direct rivals. Without training centers the sport takes another hit and dies more, there are only so many very elite coaches with particular specialties. Skaters are going to flock to those places.

Skaters always have the option to leave if they don't feel comfortable in their training center and it's not working with the coaches, or any other part of their training.
If they really were so unhappy about V/M being taken by MF and Patches then that's on them: Leave and create your own happiness and comfortable training environment. This was not solely P/C's training center, they moved in on others and were welcomed with open arms.

As a side note: I also call BS on the training environment they claim: If it was so bad then maybe it was in their heads or them making it that way, because that training center runs amazingly and all the teams are friendly, and get along respectfully on and off ice.

this.... BTW, they are lucky their "candid" comments haven't backfired. I coach several talented teenagers, and if one of them got angry at me for "ruining" their cozy feeling by taking another talented student, I'd suggest they move on to another mentor. I do not work with students who do not trust me and my judgment.
 

Ophelia

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katers always have the option to leave if they don't feel comfortable in their training center and it's not working with the coaches, or any other part of their training.
If they really were so unhappy about V/M being taken by MF and Patches then that's on them: Leave and create your own happiness and comfortable training environment. This was not solely P/C's training center, they moved in on others and were welcomed with open arms.

As a side note: I also call BS on the training environment they claim: If it was so bad then maybe it was in their heads or them making it that way, because that training center runs amazingly and all the teams are friendly, and get along respectfully on and off ice.

Sounds easy in theory, hard in practice. You actually expect them to uproot their lives and find a new coaching team 1.5 years before the Olympics? Their coaches threw them a curveball and put them between a rock and a hard place. They chose the lesser of two evils.

By your argument, you should call bs on V/M whining about Zoueva right after 2014 Olympics too.
 

Ic3Rabbit

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Sounds easy in theory, hard in practice. You actually expect them to uproot their lives and find a new coaching team 1.5 years before the Olympics? Their coaches threw them a curveball and put them between a rock and a hard place. They chose the lesser of two evils.

By your argument, you should call bs on V/M whining about Zoueva right after 2014 Olympics too.

LOL! Thanks for the laugh today.

First of all, being in the training environment in Montreal often, I see and hear and know what goes on. So yes, I'm calling BS. I've also done the same in Detroit. There is a reason why Igor left Marina and went on his own and yes she did cater to D/W. Anyone in Detroit at the time and hell even those who watched the show that followed Tessa and Scott around prior to those games saw it (and this isn't anything on my part against Charlie and Meryl because they are lovely people and wonderful athletes).

There have been many an elite athlete that have moved at the last moment because it wasn't working out. And yes "gasp" one and half years or less before the OG's. They even said themselves that it only took two weeks to decide and be moved to Montreal so obviously that wasn't so life shattering for them and they could do it again.
 

Interspectator

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I like their honesty.
I was really cheering for them at the Olympics, but luck wasn't on their side.
In the end, the medals went to the athletes in the right order.
It's very interesting to know what goes on behind the scenes in their preparation for the Olympics from their perspective.
Each athlete goes on their own journey, and fights with their own demons. It's a gift for us fans to hear this from them.
:thumbsup:
 

oatmella

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I thought Marie-France and Patrice had already told V/M that they would coach them, if they decided to return to competition - prior to P/C moving to them.

Not totally certain, but regardless - I wouldn’t consider what happened “backstabbing”.

I appreciate their honesty, but I don’t really appreciate Gabi’s tweet about those not fluent in French shouldn’t be forming an opinion based on translations of the interview.
 

yume

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This interview may be a PR nightmare for them, but for fans it's an absolute treasure. FINALLY someone speaks up and just lets the truth rip. Really P/C, I give you a PLATINUM MEDAL for that.

If everyone could react like that when EVERY skater is honest, skating world would be better.
 

Shedi0806

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I thought Marie-France and Patrice had already told V/M that they would coach them, if they decided to return to competition - prior to P/C moving to them.

Not totally certain, but regardless - I wouldn’t consider what happened “backstabbing”.

I appreciate their honesty, but I don’t really appreciate Gabi’s tweet about those not fluent in French shouldn’t be forming an opinion based on translations of the interview.

Yes, Marie France told so in interviews. She said they had to keep their promise to Tessa and Scott. V/M said in an interview that they always strive in an environment where they train with the best in order to be the best.
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
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…. V/M whining about Zoueva right after 2014 Olympics too.

Unless one also accuses P/C of "whining" (instead of simply noting their candor), it is a huge double standard to accuse V/M of "whining" (instead of simply noting their candor).

Why is it that the comments quoted below regarding P/C's candor would not apply also to V/M's candor?

... it's great to hear them be upfront about how they felt over it. No one can really hold it against them, it really was rough. …

... Really P/C, I give you a PLATINUM MEDAL for that.

… I remember reading this interview when it came out and thinking that they were very brave.

I like their honesty. ...
It's a gift for us fans to hear this from them.
:thumbsup:
 

yume

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^I'm not talking about how great of a coaching job D/L did, I'm saying that I would find it unbelievable, as their pupils, for my coach to take on my biggest competitor for the Olympics. If I were a coach, I wouldn't consider backstabbing my current pupils like that.

Mentorship is not the same as official coaching. I consider this a huge conflict of interest and breach of trust.

I don't see why it's backstabbing or a huge conflict of interest. Should every coaches have only one star per discipline in their rink? Only one medal/title contender? And the coach's career or prize list doesn't matter? Or the rival skater's career in that? Why should that pupil's dream or career matter more?

What makes a coach's name famous is the list of skaters who won big medals with him. So every coach imo would and should be eager to train as many talents as possible. Unless there is an exclusivity clause in the contract, there is nothing bad if you take a new student who can challenge your pupil.

Imo it wouldn't have been cool for Zagitova and for the sport if Eteri had let her in juniors just for the sake of Medvedeva.

It wouldn't have been cool if Orser had deny a better training environnement to Hanyu.

We wouldn't have had those exciting clashs in competitions.
 

Nocturne

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This interview is very interesting.
I think people often forget that athletes are human and have emotions too.

I will never understand people who get mad at silver medalists for not rejoicing
about their silver at the moment it happens.
If you work for a specific goal for so many years and then you just fall short at the very end, it is crushing. It hurts. That is normal.

I remember Mao's crying in Vancouver and so many people holding it against her. I wanna see those people having their life long dream shattered and smile happily the second afterwards.

Most athletes appreciate their silvers after some time. But it takes time. And I think that is normal and should be okay.
 

yume

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This interview is very interesting.
I think people often forget that athletes are human and have emotions too.

I will never understand people who get mad at silver medalists for not rejoicing.
Me neither.
 

Big Deal

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Jan 23, 2004
A very refreshing interview. Honest instead of repeating that usual " I am only interested to go out and enjoy myself..." dishonest stuff. One won't wake up at 5 to go to a cold icerink for THAT reason only.
BUT I am happy that it was the CORRECT result there after a long preparation by many (French Federation's President did it openly) to get it otherwise. I still can't understand the result of the Free Dance, but I don't care so much anymore as the final result was correct. I am not biased. I am Hungarian watching Ice Dance since Pahomova/Gorshkow and the Buck siblings , Angelika and Eric....

Unfortunately Gabriella is right about the risk of their future. Judges seemingly dont't want the same stuff winning without a real competition. I am worried about them because of that! Who can explain the several 10's Sinitsina, Katsalapov got at the World Team Trophy???? P/C cannot literally improve their almost maximum points. 3 more years is a long time for the others to improve theirs..... Politicking already started agaain
 

Ic3Rabbit

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Politicking already started agaain

Welcome to ice dance where politicking has always been abundant. Doesn’t make it right but it hasn’t changed in decades with the judging. Gabby should have known that and picked a different discipline if it bugs her so much. The funnier thing is: Wasn’t a problem to them all the years it was working in their favor and shouldn’t have.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

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^Rivals are different from DIRECT rivals. Everyone is a rival in skating, but I have rarely seen coaches coaching DIRECT rivals, never mind taking on a direct rivalry for the Olympics. in the instances where it happens, nothing good comes out of it (e.g. D/W vs V/M, Med vs Zag).

And no, I would hardly consider Hanyu's transferal to TCC to be apples-to-apples comparison. P/C was arguably the frontrunner for gold. Wouldn't say the same for Fernandez.

So, should a coach drop one of their students if they become a frontrunner for gold, or should they continue to coach two gold-medal favourites?

I don't see what being a gold contender has to do with it. Fernandez was also a podium contender at Worlds and could have been edged out for medals by Hanyu, and yet they still maintained a healthy competitive environment and nobody accused Orser of backstabbing.

D/L did not do anything to comprise P/C's ability to win the gold, and gave them everything they needed to do so. D/L didn't stitch her dress and as the article mentions, they don't even blame the person who did. D/L gave P/C programs that could have beaten V/M if both performed at their best. They didn't, in part due to the wardrobe issue, so they lost. The judges almost gave it to them in spite of the issue with a whopping SD score in light of the issue and resulting errors.

Vilifying D/L in this situation is a weak argument given they are pretty much the reason for P/C even having a chance at gold and did nothing to compromise their chances. Took their rivals on isn't an act of betrayal - especially if you still maintained front runner status, which P/C did. Bottom line is the French had an accident and then (understandably) made mistakes. If the French hadn't had the dress issue, nobody would be blaming D/L for taking on V/M because the result would have been what they wanted -- but that's just trying to find a scapegoat instead of calling a spade a spade that they had a bad incident which compromised their competition.
 
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