Papadakis & Cizeron's Very Candid Interview re Olympics 2018

CanadianSkaterGuy · Jul 18, 2019

WeakAnkles said:
There is really not much avant garde in their programs anymore. In fact, their style has pretty much become the norm.

I think they are imitated but not duplicated- their movements and artistry and team dynamic are still unique to them and push the sport. Of course, after a while their style becomes something they are comfortable with and you can't expect them to keep reinventing themselves. I would love to see greater, more unexpected variety in their program choices but they are still bringing a few fresh things to their overall skating IMO.

TontoK · Jul 18, 2019

The main takeaway was that the problem with the dress had happened before.

I'd have duct taped that dress shut if that's what it took to prevent a recurrence at the Olympics.

Fluture · Jul 18, 2019

From someone who doesn‘t care too much about this discipline and doesn‘t have a horse in this race at all... I still think they deserve more than one gold medal for this interview. Really, who cares if it isn‘t always pretty and eternally grateful and ”we just want to have fun and be on the ice“? Well, surprise, surprise, we‘re all humans and our feelings aren‘t always pretty and nice. Those are athletes who dedicated their whole life to this sport, of course they will be devastated when the medal turns out to be silver instead of gold by a small margin. And obviously, there will be questions of ”why“ and “who let this happen“. It‘s normal. They‘re not robots.

For someone to speak up and give an honest account of how it really was to deal with all this at the time, knowing what some fans might think about it, takes immense courage and I think they deserve respect for that. If more skaters could be like that without having to fear being called out for not answering with standard, learned phrases, maybe our sport would be a better one.

Tavi... · Jul 18, 2019

Colonel Green said:
As the interview notes, they were aware that it wasn't something Papadakis and Cizeron were likely to be thrilled by.

But Marie-France and co.'s vision for Gadbois was to make it the center of the ice-dancing world, and they've never shied away from hosting rival teams (international, national or otherwise). That's part and parcel of their coaching vision. That's why they're currently, for instance, trying to help Chock/Bates reclaim their national ranking over Hubbell/Donohue, who they are also coaching.

Hanyu transferred to the TCC in April of 2012, two seasons from the Olympics, exactly the same amount of time that V/M were at Gadbois.

The situation with Javi and Hanyu wasn’t really comparable to what is happening in Montreal, though, except maybe for some of the lower ranked teams. TCC didn’t take two World Champions and start them training together. They took two guys with a lot of potential and decent (Javi) to good (Hanyu) results and carefully matched personalities, and made them both champions through a favorable training environment. And if forum comments are anything to go by (not sure they are

) most people have eliminated TCC as a possible new training environment for Shoma precisely because he’s Hanyu’s direct competitor.

The only other place I can think of where multiple direct high level competitors train together is Team Eteri, but since most of them seem to start there very young, it still doesn’t seem comparable to Montreal.

For those of you who aren’t anti-TSL, they recently did a very good interview with Gabby & Guillaume. Among other things, it was mentioned that in France, from the time children are put on the ice, they are either tracked into freestyle or ice dance.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sOkiOrCdKMI

yume · Jul 18, 2019

Tavi... said:
The situation with Javi and Hanyu wasn’t really comparable to what is happening in Montreal, though, except maybe for some of the lower ranked teams. TCC didn’t take two World Champions and start them training together. They took two guys with a lot of potential and decent (Javi) to good (Hanyu) results and carefully matched personalities, and made them both champions through a favorable training environment. And if forum comments are anything to go by (not sure they are ) most people have eliminated TCC as a possible new training environment for Shoma precisely because he’s Hanyu’s direct competitor.

Well, some had this opinion but others thought that it would be fine. After all, Orser had agreed to train Boyang Jin. We can maybe say that he's not at the same level than Shoma but when Orser wanted to be his coach, the guy had finished more than once on the same podiums than Hanyu, had just finished 4th at olympics, was two-time worlds medalist. He had at least the technical skills to challenge Hanyu. With Orser's polishing and reputation, Boyang could have been dangerous.

Tavi... · Jul 18, 2019

yume said:
Well, some had this opinion but others thought that it would be fine. After all, Orser had agreed to train Boyang Jin. We can maybe say that he's not at the same level than Shoma but when Orser wanted to be his coach, the guy had finished more than once on the same podiums than Hanyu, had just finished 4th at olympics, was two-time worlds medalist. He had at least the technical skills to challenge Hanyu. With Orser's polishing and reputation, Boyang could have been dangerous.

Yes I’m sure there are people who think it would be perfectly fine for Shoma and Yuzuru to train together, and of course you’re right that Boyang was scheduled to join TCC. But he didn’t. So we don’t have any real data on how that would have worked out. And unlike Boyang, Shoma is Yuzuru’s teammate, and he’s also the Japanese national champion and Olympic silver medalist. So I do think the situation is a bit different, but I don’t have any opinion on what “should” happen.

The main thing I take from this thread is that everyone is different and we shouldn’t be judging Gabby and Guillaume for their feelings. A situation that deeply affected those two might have had no effect or even had a positive effect on others. Does that mean their feelings were wrong and they have no right to talk about them? It’s pretty clear that a few people here seem to think so. I disagree with that.

4everchan · Jul 18, 2019

oatmella said:
I thought Marie-France and Patrice had already told V/M that they would coach them, if they decided to return to competition - prior to P/C moving to them.

Not totally certain, but regardless - I wouldn’t consider what happened “backstabbing”.

I appreciate their honesty, but I don’t really appreciate Gabi’s tweet about those not fluent in French shouldn’t be forming an opinion based on translations of the interview.

i am very fluent in French

and I formed a negative opinion of their interview... it's not the first time they put their feet in their mouth... they complained about some RD rhythms before, talked about how the sport has some limits that prevent them to really do what they want... etc... well then, why don't you go pro and do shows without rules and constraints? I love wine just as much as i hate whine.

TontoK · Jul 18, 2019

lilahozi said:
Sounds easy in theory, hard in practice. You actually expect them to uproot their lives and find a new coaching team 1.5 years before the Olympics? Their coaches threw them a curveball and put them between a rock and a hard place. They chose the lesser of two evils.

I'm sorry, but no.

These are adults, fully capable of managing their own careers and their own lives.

They were also WC and Olympic favorites, so it's not like every coaching team in the world wouldn't have been jumping at the chance to take them on.

I don't live in a Pollyanna world where I assume adults make decisions on the basis of someone else's welfare.

V/M wanted the Gadbois team to take them on.

The coaches wanted to add V/M to their stable.

P/C decided to stay.

Every single person in this situation acted in their own self interests. There is no hero. There is no villain.

StephenGfan · Jul 18, 2019

Such different responses on here. on twitter and tumblr everyone was dragging them and gabby had to apologize for the interview....

yuna13 · Jul 18, 2019

This interview shows how french athletes talk: no pc sentences and pr machines.
In france athletes don’t get a lot of money from sponsor ( unless you’re a football player) so they are being themselves, not actors.
We only ask two things of them: do not complain about taxes and don’t act like a spoiled brat.

Sometimes NA athletes looks like they are in a performance while they are doing interview : perfect hair, make up, smile and they always say the same boring thing.

StephenGfan · Jul 18, 2019

ice coverage said:
Unless one also accuses P/C of "whining" (instead of simply noting their candor), it is a huge double standard to accuse V/M of "whining" (instead of simply noting their candor).

Why is it that the comments quoted below regarding P/C's candor would not apply also to V/M's candor?

As a young skating fan (21) It's no secret V/M are much more well liked on skating twitter and Tumblr by a huge amount of younger fans while P/C are more well liked on skating forums by a concentrated group of older fans so of course when P/C say things like this in interviews people view them as brave on here while they are dragged through the mud on twitter and tumblr where as in V/M's case if they said something like this in an interview they would be ridicolued on here while defended for their honesty on twitter. just my take.

surimi · Jul 18, 2019

StephenGfan said:
As a young skating fan (21) It's no secret V/M are much more well liked on skating twitter and Tumblr by a huge amount of younger fans while P/C are more well liked on skating forums by a concentrated group of older fans so of course when P/C say things like this in interviews people view them as brave on here while they are dragged through the mud on twitter and tumblr where as in V/M's case if they said something like this in an interview they would be ridicolued on here while defended for their honesty on twitter. just my take.

I think age should be kept out of this. Any proof of real ages of forum users? Even as a 'younger fan', I find this separating into age groups thing insensitive at least.

G&G's interview was very refreshing to read, and it reminds us that not everything is friendly and rosy in the skating world. I don't find anything offensive in their interview, no shading, blame game or badmouthing. They were just being honest and stating facts the way they saw them. Others who have been in that environment, might have different views, which is fine, but it's their personal view only and doesn't make the French couple's words any less credible, in my eyes at least. I applaud G&G for their honesty, and find it very sad that they would feel forced to apologize for something this harmless.

Ducky · Jul 18, 2019

yuna13 said:
This interview shows how french athletes talk: no pc sentences and pr machines.
In france athletes don’t get a lot of money from sponsor ( unless you’re a football player) so they are being themselves, not actors.
We only ask two things of them: do not complain about taxes and don’t act like a spoiled brat.

Sometimes NA athletes looks like they are in a performance while they are doing interview : perfect hair, make up, smile and they always say the same boring thing.

Oh, we call that being media trained.

StephenGfan said:
As a young skating fan (21) It's no secret V/M are much more well liked on skating twitter and Tumblr by a huge amount of younger fans while P/C are more well liked on skating forums by a concentrated group of older fans so of course when P/C say things like this in interviews people view them as brave on here while they are dragged through the mud on twitter and tumblr where as in V/M's case if they said something like this in an interview they would be ridicolued on here while defended for their honesty on twitter. just my take.

As an old fogy who prefers P/C, I didn't really read Gabby's comments as being whiny... if anything it seemed very couched to not be whiny or bitter, although it's very clear the issue is still raw to both of them. Otoh, I won't give them props for candor because, well, it seemed very couched to not be whiny or bitter.

Eleanor · Jul 18, 2019

4everchan said:
[/B]

i am very fluent in French and I formed a negative opinion of their interview... it's not the first time they put their feet in their mouth... they complained about some RD rhythms before, talked about how the sport has some limits that prevent them to really do what they want... etc... well then, why don't you go pro and do shows without rules and constraints? I love wine just as much as i hate whine.

Fluent in french but not french, aren't you ? We are less politically correct than north americans (but not as direct as others). Here, no one will criticize Gabby for saying that this is hard and that they wanted gold. Worse, the day they start to talk like north americans about enjoying themselves, we will complain and call them loosers for not setting their eyes on gold only. This kind of speech is frequently called a "looser speech".

Indeed, I found the translation not really accurate and a bit worse than in french but overall, it's not a shocking interview. It's just honest. Translation matters but education and environment matters a lot more. And while Gabby has been living in Montreal for 4-5 years now, she is still french, born and raised. And she gave an interview that is not shocking for us.

yuna13 said:
This interview shows how french athletes talk: no pc sentences and pr machines.
In france athletes don’t get a lot of money from sponsor ( unless you’re a football player) so they are being themselves, not actors.
We only ask two things of them: do not complain about taxes and don’t act like a spoiled brat.

Sometimes NA athletes looks like they are in a performance while they are doing interview : perfect hair, make up, smile and they always say the same boring thing.

And even this is not so sacred anymore. Martin Fourcade recently complained about taxes (even though he said that biathletes in general are not as lucky as he is). I am sure he is not the only one. I also remember Noah moving abroad to pay less taxes as well. As for acting like a brat, we have a long list of football players guilty of that sadly. There is just not much we are shocked by I'm afraid ^^ :slink:

el henry · Jul 18, 2019

4everchan said:
[/B]

i am very fluent in French and I formed a negative opinion of their interview... it's not the first time they put their feet in their mouth... they complained about some RD rhythms before, talked about how the sport has some limits that prevent them to really do what they want... etc... well then, why don't you go pro and do shows without rules and constraints? I love wine just as much as i hate whine.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that you are Québécois and love Tessa and Scott?

ETA: which I bring up only because you have mentioned both on this forum, otherwise I wouldn’t know. :biggrin:

I don’t mind I just think that might have a little to do with it

. I don’t care about Tessa and Scott and I don’t care about Gabi and Guillaume. I am not Francophone, but I understood it, and it didn’t sound particularly whiny to me. I certainly could have missed some nuances. :shrug:

oatmella · Jul 18, 2019

This interview is from Radio Canada, I would assume that the interview’s intended audience would be French-speaking Canadians.

CanadianSkaterGuy · Jul 18, 2019

Tavi... said:
The situation with Javi and Hanyu wasn’t really comparable to what is happening in Montreal, though, except maybe for some of the lower ranked teams. TCC didn’t take two World Champions and start them training together. They took two guys with a lot of potential and decent (Javi) to good (Hanyu) results and carefully matched personalities, and made them both champions through a favorable training environment. And if forum comments are anything to go by (not sure they are ) most people have eliminated TCC as a possible new training environment for Shoma precisely because he’s Hanyu’s direct competitor.

The only other place I can think of where multiple direct high level competitors train together is Team Eteri, but since most of them seem to start there very young, it still doesn’t seem comparable to Montreal.

For those of you who aren’t anti-TSL, they recently did a very good interview with Gabby & Guillaume. Among other things, it was mentioned that in France, from the time children are put on the ice, they are either tracked into freestyle or ice dance.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sOkiOrCdKMI

You could say the same thing though about Boyang Jin or Jason Brown.

Tavi... · Jul 18, 2019

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
You could say the same thing though about Boyang Jin or Jason Brown.

I guess you could if “direct competitor” means “senior man.”

Seriously, at this point, Jason, much as I adore him, would have to rely on huge errors by Hanyu to beat him. And he’s not Japanese. So I wouldn’t consider him a direct competitor in the same way Shoma is. There might be a better argument for Boyang, but for me the fact that Shoma and Hanyu are both Team Japan would make the rivalry far more intense - I could be wrong, but that’s how it seems to me.

TallyT · Jul 18, 2019

I think we all can agree that Yuzuru and Javier were a very special case - they had years as teammates, they meshed personality-wise, they are both extremely generous for elite competitors while still being fierce - but even with them, Brian and if I recall Tracey have mentioned it got tense and fraught heading into the Olympics (what with Javi's difficult season, Yuzu's injury and the insane pressure he and Brian were under from Japan and the skating world, it's a tribute to everyone at TCC that there wasn't a Canada-sized explosion) and they did spend some of the training time of separate rinks to make it easier on everyone's nerves, especially their own.

Evgenia and Alina... well, it was nice before the Olympics to believe that the girls seemed to have a similar friendship. But I think the way it - and the coach's part in it - proved thin and fragile in the fallout is probably more... natural, shall we say? - given the cut-throat nature of high level individual sport. Remember Yuna Kim's reaction to just a hint that Brian as her coach would take on a rival? I do think as the new quad girls move into senior competition and especially in 2021, any pr guff we get about them being all friends and loving and all that might be taken more skeptically, but at least they knew right from the start that this is the way it is in Tutberidze world, no blindsiding.

The dance coaches must have known that they were going to have a lot of intense emotions and tension by sharing themselves among the directly-competing-for-gold pairs, they decided it was worth it, and presumably did what they could to lessen problems (by the sounds of things, not as successfully as it needed to be, but then if you insist on having two or more tigers by the tails...).

4everchan · Jul 18, 2019

el henry said:
Which has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that you are Québécois and love Tessa and Scott? ETA: which I bring up only because you have mentioned both on this forum, otherwise I wouldn’t know.

I don’t mind I just think that might have a little to do with it. I don’t care about Tessa and Scott and I don’t care about Gabi and Guillaume. I am not Francophone, but I understood it, and it didn’t sound particularly whiny to me. I certainly could have missed some nuances.

are you calling me bias? really?

Papadakis & Cizeron's Very Candid Interview re Olympics 2018

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Congrats to Sota, #10 in World Standings!

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Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.

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Papadakis & Cizeron's Very Candid Interview re Olympics 2018

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