Papadakis & Cizeron's Very Candid Interview re Olympics 2018

el henry · Jul 21, 2019

Beckaboomer said:
There is actually scientific data regarding the nature of the silver medalist(s) being the most unhappy with their result(s). This article from Scientific American goes into it: https://blogs.scientificamerican.co...ze-medalists-are-happier-than-silver-winners/

In the case of P/C I don't necessarily think it's tacky for them to hope for their competitors to make mistakes, but it is definitely less than tactful to say it out loud. Athletes are driven to win, after all.

I felt that article explained it well, thanks.

I agree, it is not "tacky" or "sour grapes" or "negative thinking", for Gabby and Guillaume to give the interview they did and describe the emotions they had. It's how they felt and they have every right to describe it if they want to. Since it made absolutely no difference to me whether Tessa and Scott won or they won, as a neutral observer, I found the description exceeding interesting.

TallyT · Jul 21, 2019

This discussion has put me strongly in mind of Paul Hogan's classic spech at the Oscars in 1987, especially from this point...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtxZeDYuEZI&t=1m12s

... so true of winners and runners up everywhere (so okay, we want them to be gracious but we are fascinated when they, umm, aren't... and would anyone say they didn't deserve the gold and actually decline it???)

(And the 'I'm so glad he won instead of me' smile... we see it all the time, we really do)

Eleanor · Jul 21, 2019

4everchan said:
every performance is different... and every medal means something else... a gold with a few falls cannot be as good as a silver or even a bronze with a flawless program... athletes are trained to focus ON THE PROCESS... the work.. the training.. NOT THE RESULT.. which they cannot control because there are judges, other skaters, unexpected BS etc....

Athletes are happy when they skate their best...

Why is there so many doping scandal if only the process matters.....this is a highly idealistic view of what sport is.

4everchan · Jul 21, 2019

Eleanor said:
Why is there so many doping scandal if only the process matters.....this is a highly idealistic view of what sport is.

You are missing my point. Ironic as you mentioned i probably did not comprehend gabby's european french. I am refering specifically to sports like figure skating in which ones performances are evaluated by judges. That is something athletes have no control on. All they can control is the quality of their performance. Doping, as far as i know, is not a major problem in figure skating. As a matter of fact, PC underestimated the dress issues here : it had already fallen down before. Why didn't they solve that issue? That could be seen as a lack of absolute desire to win. They did not check all the boxes they needed to check before going to the rink. Btw. With the skin showing, they were lucky not to have a point deduction for costume violation. There are so many ways to tell a story. I stick to my perception of it : they did whine a lot in this interview and that doesnt make me sympathetic to their cause considering how fast they rose to the top, beating mature and experienced teams at both worlds and olympics with what i consider monochromatic skating. Ymmv

i think i have covered my points.

slider11 · Jul 21, 2019

I so appreciate their honesty and candor! Had Gabby's dress not slipped down would they have earned 2 points higher in the SD? Maybe. I actually thought they skated the SD really well, particularly considering the strap issue. I think the judges were actually more distracted than the skaters and therefore had a hard time giving them the highest scores. Scott and Tessa have had good success in scoring well when it counted except for the 2014 OG's when Davis and White had even stronger resolve to skate clean. Otherwise, it was very hard to beat Tessa and Scott. Frankly, I'm glad Tessa and Scott won in 2018 so they can now, presumably, move on. Now, we have one dominant team, Gabby and Guillaume, but at least some room on the podium for the other very talented teams.

Eleanor · Jul 21, 2019

4everchan said:
You are missing my point. Ironic as you mentioned i probably did not comprehend gabby's european french. I am refering specifically to sports like figure skating in which ones performances are evaluated by judges. That is something athletes have no control on. All they can control is the quality of their performance. Doping, as far as i know, is not a major problem in figure skating. As a matter of fact, PC underestimated the dress issues here : it had already fallen down before. Why didn't they solve that issue? That could be seen as a lack of absolute desire to win. They did not check all the boxes they needed to check before going to the rink. Btw. With the skin showing, they were lucky not to have a point deduction for costume violation. There are so many ways to tell a story. I stick to my perception of it : they did whine a lot in this interview and that doesnt make me sympathetic to their cause considering how fast they rose to the top, beating mature and experienced teams at both worlds and olympics with what i consider monochromatic skating. Ymmv i think i have covered my points.

Oh sorry, did not know figure skaters were a seperate not-interested-in-gold medals breed :hslap:
This is a something true in every competitive discipline: what matters for athletes is to have the gold medal around their neck.

As for the interview, everything is good to criticize

And where did I say you misunderstood gabby's french ? I only said you were not french...Or am I missing something ?

CanadianSkaterGuy · Jul 21, 2019

Eleanor said:
Why is there so many doping scandal if only the process matters.....this is a highly idealistic view of what sport is.

Doping is an anomaly - unless you hail from countries historically pre-occupied with winning at all costs... not naming any names. :coffee:

Figure skating doping scandals are incredibly rare. No amount of drugs would allow a team to achieve the quality of performance that skaters like P/C have.

TallyT · Jul 21, 2019

What pretty much all competitors, in all areas sporting and otherwise, really want above everything is their name in the history books, their own however little slice of immortality. Yes, a perfect (both technically and emotionally) offering that is rewarded by the ultimate golden prize is what they all aim for.

However, a 'perfect' performance that is not recognised as such with the ultimate golden prize is just that bit less likely to be remembered as time goes on and immediacy fades, as it is second, third... whatever in the annals. Conversely, a less than beautiful performance that gets the gold - or even doesn't - can still be immortal for other reasons that have less to do with the (as Dick Button put it) 'counting of points' and more to do with the skater's - and audience's - heart and soul.

There were two storybook endings in Pyeongchang (actually, three, in my opinion both Evgenia and Alina were following different tales and Alina did complete hers with the happy-maybe-ever-after) that will never be forgotten, and the silver and other performers in both cases quite probably couldn't have competed emotionally for that slice of immortality if they'd won. Oddly enough, ice dance was the one discipline that IMO didn't have that element (they, especially V/M, brought an almost Harlequinesque level of sex appeal instead, which works just as well :laugh:

and may not have to do with the 'perfection' of the skating but a whole lot to do with why their victory is up there with Aljona's five-Olys-in-the-making defiance of fate or Yuzu's wounded warrior epic. All three have something more memorable than mere perfection... as well as a good dose of perfection itself).

Mao and Yuna and Adelina in Sochi - and the sound and the fury and the legend that followed - did prove that Olympic gold isn't wholly the measure above the impact of the performance, but they also proved that the gold is the biggest measure in the athletes' and in history's eyes. The only actual athletes who I recall in any field actually disputing that are those who expected to get it... and didn't... and this Aussie gives P/C kudos for being honest enough not to do so.

That they wonder if the run up training with their main rivals - and that 'horrible nasty bit of cloth' disaster - may have robbed them of that spot in the history books? - maybe they're right. We'll never know.

Ic3Rabbit · Jul 21, 2019

First of all, there are many reasons other than sex appeal that V/M are legendary and got that gold medal in S. Korea.

On another point, there are silver medal finishes that have gone down more memorable that the OGM winner one step above them on the podium.
Paul Wylie and his OSM for instance.
Denis Ten at 2013 Worlds. As much as I love Patrick Chan and his skating, Denis' performance to win silver is more memorable to me. And he was thrilled.

TallyT · Jul 21, 2019

Ic3Rabbit said:
First of all, there are many reasons other than sex appeal that V/M are legendary and got that gold medal in S. Korea.

Of course there are a lot of other reasons! They are above brilliant skaters, quite possibly the GOATs of their field (though me, I lean to Torvill and Dean) and their routines will be studied for years to come by those hungry for the same rewards. But to deny that the deliberate sex appeal was part of what distinguishes it from other brilliant OGM performances into one of those moments that are just way more popularly memorable would be blinkered (they have many many fans who ship them because of it, remember). Just as much so as to deny that Yuzuru's stunning performances are also lifted by his sheer grit and battle against his injury.

They're just a different stype of storybook... story.

And I agree about Denis Ten and Patrick Chan in 2013... but history is going to say that Patrick was the champion. As we get further away in time and memory, history will keep saying that. That's what I meant about the slice of immortality.

Skater Boy · Jul 22, 2019

WeakAnkles said:
There is really not much avant garde in their programs anymore. In fact, their style has pretty much become the norm.

I agree PC are hardly avant garde. And I would also add I would hardly say they are the stronger dance team. Gabby has improved tonnes but she certainoly has some quality issues relatively to Guillaume. But now the future is there's. Nothing is oging to stop them from that OGM.

Skater Boy · Jul 22, 2019

SarahSynchro said:
I thought this interview was very poised and professional. Gabby and Guillaume were respectful of both Tessa, Scott, and the Gadbois coaching team. I didn’t read any backhanded shade throwing, snarly statements, or outright bitterness. Rather, they just stated the honest facts regarding how they felt about those two seasons as training partners with Tessa and Scott. I really hope they don’t get too much flack for what was said here, because I personally believe it’s unnecessary in the first place.

I’ve often wondered to myself if Gabby’s wardrobe malfunction with her dress didn’t occur, would they have beaten Tessa and Scott in the rhythm dance? My gut is telling me no. Granted, that’s just my personal opinion; it’s no secret around here that I’ve always been a V/M fangirl through and through. In both 2016-17 and 2017-18, it was their rhythm dances that won them the two biggest competitions in those seasons: 2017’s world championships; and the 2018 Olympics. Their 2016-17 Prince RD was absolute perfection in every possible way. I still find myself rewatching it quite frequently. In fact, I just might watch it again, after I finish up this post. That non-touch step sequence was a thing of perfection; absolutely out of this world. They were right on the beat, executing both the hip hop theme like no other. Likewise, in 2017-2018, their Rolling Stones/Eagles/Santana rhythm dance was also amazing; though not quite as top notch as the Prince medley, they still killed it out there. In both competitions, it’s the RD’s that made all the difference, with P/C still winning the free dance in both competitions.

Then, as the very last team to end the entire event with their amazing free dance to music from Moulin Rouge, you just knew Virtue and Moir had that gold model in the bag, the second they hit their final pose.

Anywho. Since their first world title, Gabby and Guillaume have been absolutely fantastic skaters in their own right. I mean, come on now, four world championship titles, with several more to likely come in this quad?! Not even Meryl and Charlie, nor Tessa and Scott, were able to pull that off that achievement.

I feel that I must point out that I’ve never been one of those intensely diehard V/M fans, who uncontrollably bash and trash P/C, just because they are petty, malicious keyboard warriors, hiding behind sock accounts, and/or made-up aliases.

I am in awe of both teams and truly appreciate how each of them have upped the ante within the entire discipline of ice dance.

I must also give a shoutout to Meryl and Charlie for doing the same, even though they didn’t compete after winning their 2014 OGM.

Again, I think Gabby and Guillaume are incredibly humble, understanding, mature, and well versed. They spoke so candidly about their experience; in a way that also showed respect, integrity, and honesty. I’m proud of them for feeling safe enough to put it all into words and speak to the media. Doing so requires a high level of courage; one that many of us could never pull off. Kudos to them. Along with my underdog favourites, Piper and Paul, I’ll be rooting for Guillaume and Gabby all the way to 2022 and beyond, if they so choose to continue competing for another quad, post 2022, that is.

Thank you for taking the time and effort to translate this interview for us English speaking folks, Gotlav. It’s always appreciated. :clapper:

I really appreciate G squareds honesty and frankness. I don't think you can comare Pc to Davis and WHite or viture and moir. THe French have not had the competition.

Skater Boy · Jul 22, 2019

Beckaboomer said:
There is actually scientific data regarding the nature of the silver medalist(s) being the most unhappy with their result(s). This article from Scientific American goes into it: https://blogs.scientificamerican.co...ze-medalists-are-happier-than-silver-winners/

In the case of P/C I don't necessarily think it's tacky for them to hope for their competitors to make mistakes, but it is definitely less than tactful to say it out loud. Athletes are driven to win, after all.

Godo for Gsquared. They spoke with honesty and truth. THey only are saying what really is going thrugh their minds. I appreciate that so many practice the Miss America answer. Heck they are competitive skaters who of course want to win.

TallyT · Jul 22, 2019

Skater Boy said:
I agree PC are hardly avant garde. And I would also add I would hardly say they are the stronger dance team. Gabby has improved tonnes but she certainoly has some quality issues relatively to Guillaume. But now the future is there's. Nothing is oging to stop them from that OGM.

Umm, shall we not jinx them? My bedtime reading sometimes is the archives and the number of absolutely-can't-lose-that-gold predictions which appear to have caught the eye of Nemesis is both sad and funny...

Eleanor · Jul 22, 2019

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
Doping is an anomaly - unless you hail from countries historically pre-occupied with winning at all costs... not naming any names.

Figure skating doping scandals are incredibly rare. No amount of drugs would allow a team to achieve the quality of performance that skaters like P/C have.

My post was not about FS only.
I just strongly disagree with the idea that athletes only care about the process, the training, doing their best and enjoying themselves.
They may say that on television but it's certainly not what make them get up in the morning and go through the day.
And sadly, the number of doping scandals proves my point. Gold is all there is. And your name in the history of the Olympics is what matters the most. How you get there is irrelevant for some athletes.

evangeline · Jul 22, 2019

4everchan said:
Athletes are happy when they skate their best...

How happy was Evgenia Medvedeva when she saw her silver medal scores after skating her best at the 2018 Olympics, with two flawless programs?

4everchan said:
As a matter of fact, PC underestimated the dress issues here : it had already fallen down before. Why didn't they solve that issue? That could be seen as a lack of absolute desire to win. They did not check all the boxes they needed to check before going to the rink.

In the interview, Papadakis stated that they did try to resolve the dress issue at the Olympics after the dress became undone during a Euros practice session--in fact, she said that at the Olympics, they arranged to have the dress sewed shut by one of their coaches (instead of, I assume, merely relying on the dress' clasp).

Harriet · Jul 22, 2019

evangeline said:
In the interview, Papadakis stated that they did try to resolve the dress issue at the Olympics after the dress became undone during a Euros practice session--in fact, she said that at the Olympics, they arranged to have the dress sewed shut by one of their coaches (instead of, I assume, merely relying on the dress' clasp).

In fact, if I recall correctly from interviews given at the time, the top was triple-fastened: there was a clasp/hook and at least one press stud, and it was sewn shut as well. There's no way on the face of this earth they could possibly be considered to have been laissez-faire on the issue of keeping Gabi's top on. It seems the thing was just determined to come undone no matter what.

As they say, sometimes the bullet's just got one's name on it.

4everchan · Jul 22, 2019

evangeline said:
How happy was Evgenia Medvedeva when she saw her silver medal scores after skating her best at the 2018 Olympics, with two flawless programs?

In the interview, Papadakis stated that they did try to resolve the dress issue at the Olympics after the dress became undone during a Euros practice session--in fact, she said that at the Olympics, they arranged to have the dress sewed shut by one of their coaches (instead of, I assume, merely relying on the dress' clasp).

the medvedeva story is very different.. who knows what was going on at sambo.. the problem was big enough for her to leave... which is something P/C haven't done ... they are still at gadbois

re the dress : i read that too... but i guess it wasn't enough... especially since Guillaume thinks that he is perhaps responsible for undoing it... so there...

I will tell you what really bothers me :

talking about the dress is unclassy as it takes away from the brilliant skating their competitors showed that day.

4everchan · Jul 22, 2019

Eleanor said:
My post was not about FS only.
I just strongly disagree with the idea that athletes only care about the process, the training, doing their best and enjoying themselves.
They may say that on television but it's certainly not what make them get up in the morning and go through the day.
And sadly, the number of doping scandals proves my point. Gold is all there is. And your name in the history of the Olympics is what matters the most. How you get there is irrelevant for some athletes.

again, you read me wrong.

what i am talking about comes from neuro-linguistic for the performer or if you wish, sports psychology.... and I am sure that Gadbois use this method as VM and others have mentioned it. If Gabby and Guillaume aren't working on NLP, then they are not doing all it takes to aspire to the top.

NLP talks about
1) what an athlete can control
2) what an athlete cannot control

this is often referred to as process versus result.

What an athlete/performer can control : their preparation, the quality of their performance, things even like sleep, diet, routine, getting the best coaches, getting the best choreography/music, having perfect costumes for both comfort and aesthetics, doing everything that is possible to do on a daily basis to constantly improve....

What an athlete/performer cannot control : the level of the competition...( the general field : no need to explain here the impact of VM's return, which is something they COULD NOT control), the performance of their competitors at that particular event, in figure skating, the judges.... the crowd's reaction, the popularity of others, what is trendy or not in the sport at that moment... (for instance, that suits them very well as they are the trend setters of their flowing minimalist, lyrical style)

so in sports psy, an athlete is taught to focus on what THEY can control and leave the rest up to the skating gods... that doesn't mean they don't want to win... that means that their focus is primarily on what THEY can do... the happiest winners are the ones who feel they have done their ultimate best.

Colonel Green · Jul 22, 2019

4everchan said:
talking about the dress is unclassy as it takes away from the brilliant skating their competitors showed that day.

No, it isn't. It's a simple fact that they performed under sub-optimal conditions. And realistically, as the judges' scores show, they would likely have won without that.

We'll never know, of course, but it is what it is; that's the sort of thing that athletes will always ruminate on, just as I'm sure that Elvis Stojko will always think about what might have been if not for his groin injury in 1998.

Papadakis & Cizeron's Very Candid Interview re Olympics 2018

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.

TallyT

Eleanor

4everchan

slider11

Eleanor

CanadianSkaterGuy

TallyT

Ic3Rabbit

Former Elite, now Pro. ⛸️

TallyT

Skater Boy

Skater Boy

Skater Boy

TallyT

Eleanor

evangeline

Harriet

4everchan

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