Self-taught figure skater

Sam L · Jul 23, 2019

No, not me. I’ve had a coach since I was learning to skate. But I’ve seen and spoken to an adult skater that seems to skate like 3 times a week without a coach. I have suggested they get a coach but they refuse. I see they’re doing flips now. But the technique is not right. The toe loop was never right in the first place doing a dig the toe and waltz jump thing which a lot of adults seem to do. Should I just ignore them or should I make another attempt at suggesting they get a coach. They will have to unlearn and relearn everything. They said that they don’t want to compete though which is fair enough but wouldn’t you want to do things the right way or am I just not being empathetic?

tstop4me · Jul 23, 2019

I'd say leave him alone. Coaches are expensive; maybe he doesn't have the money. And if he's having fun, nothing wrong with doing it wrong (assuming he doesn't plan to test or compete, just doing it for his personal kicks). Sure beats going round and round in circles.

1111bm · Jul 23, 2019

Sam L said:
The toe loop was never right in the first place doing a dig the toe and waltz jump thing which a lot of adults seem to do. Should I just ignore them or should I make another attempt at suggesting they get a coach.

I don't know any single adult skater (who started out as an 'actual adult', meaning at least early-to-mid twenties) who has a proper single toe, at least not at the lower levels. They all do them the way you describe, and each and everyone of them was taught by a coach (and I'm talking about skaters from different clubs and different countries).

DanseMacabre · Jul 23, 2019

So long as they're not doing crazy stuff at the rink that makes them a danger to others, their bad technique is really no one else's business but their own. I know you mean well, but unless they ask for your input, it's safe to assume it's not your place to give it.

daniiltimin · Jul 23, 2019

No need to say or suggest anything else, I’m sure that skater would of taken lessons if they wanted to. Just let them skate and do their thing!

Ic3Rabbit · Jul 23, 2019

Leave them alone unless they are doing something that is going to hurt them. Bad technique if they aren't going to compete isn't a huge deal. If they don't care, don't worry about it. And this is coming from someone who is a stickler for having coach, learning proper technique and safety.

thesoundofice · Jul 24, 2019

I agree with every comment above. As long as he's just having fun and not hurting himself or anyone else, just let him be. I was forced to be a self taught figure skater for a while because there were not coaches available. It was pretty hard because as a teenager I had good basic skills and I was trying to get back everything up to the axel. I did it. But as soon as I found a coach we fixed some mistakes that affected my skating. Even if the skater is not willing to learn proper technique maybe he will realise that having a coach is an advantage. It worths every single dime. If this won't happen, well, life goes on

1111bm · Jul 24, 2019

Oh, so suddenly skating on your own and trying out a few basics just for fun and personal kicks isn't dangerous and a huge deal anymore??
I seem to recall a thread some time ago where everyone was making a big deal out of how dangerous that is, how it will surely lead to injuries and how horribly irresponsible it was of me to suggest that it's fine and won't hurt anyone... :rolleye:

Ducky · Jul 24, 2019

1111bm said:
Oh, so suddenly skating on your own and trying out a few basics just for fun and personal kicks isn't dangerous and a huge deal anymore??
I seem to recall a thread some time ago where everyone was making a big deal out of how dangerous that is, how it will surely lead to injuries and how horribly irresponsible it was of me to suggest that it's fine and won't hurt anyone...

It's not a question as to whether or not learning to figure skate on your own is all right or a wise thing to do. The question is whether the OP should continue to try and get the self-taught adult figure skater to take lessons when the self-taught skater has not sought out nor seems to want her opinion.

DanseMacabre · Jul 24, 2019

Ducky said:
It's not a question as to whether or not learning to figure skate on your own is all right or a wise thing to do. The question is whether the OP should continue to try and get the self-taught adult figure skater to take lessons when the self-taught skater has not sought out nor seems to want her opinion.

Ducky is spot on. This was a question about etiquette at the rink not about whether or not teaching oneself is wise or safe for the individual (it's not). Self-teaching is a surefire way to develop bad habits (as my coach likes to say, "Skaters have feelings. Coaches have eyes.") and potentially injure oneself but...adults are ultimately responsible for themselves. It's not OP's place to harp on them to get a coach. Perhaps a reread of the original post would benefit you, 1111bm?

VegMom · Jul 24, 2019

1111bm said:
Oh, so suddenly skating on your own and trying out a few basics just for fun and personal kicks isn't dangerous and a huge deal anymore??
I seem to recall a thread some time ago where everyone was making a big deal out of how dangerous that is, how it will surely lead to injuries and how horribly irresponsible it was of me to suggest that it's fine and won't hurt anyone...

I think I know the thread(s) you're referring to. I think that in general this forum's attitudes about the dangers of skating without a coach are a bit exaggerated. And the dangers of skating without head protection are underappreciated. And I agree that the reaction in this thread seems to go against the grain of some other threads that make a big deal about getting private lessons.

There are differences, of course, for instance you're talking about an adult and most of those other threads are talking about teens. (I honestly don't think that matters much, teens are nearly adults and should be able to make most of their own decisions about things like whether they want to skate recreationally or competitively, have a good coach or just practice on their own, etc). Also, everyone does still think that this person would benefit from a coach or classes or formal instruction of some sort.

But I think the main issue here is that you ALREADY suggested that they get a coach. So pushing them to do it is just kind of rude, unless they are doing things that are seriously dangerous.

Sam L · Jul 25, 2019

Why am I being criticized here? I thought we're unanimously against self teaching. I don't really want to go into details since this is a public forum. Whilst he's not disturbing others or a danger to others, you can see that his technique is going to lead to injuries. It's just that also because he was quite dismissive of private coaching but he looks at and copies others. It's a bit creepy. I feel like it's my duty to the sport to not confront this. It's not like it's someone who randomly turns up to public sessions and tries some spirals and spins.

I was also told to mind my own business when I observed skate mum that was berating her daughter who was in tears. But she herself was in hockey skates, you think she knows anything about figure skating? I haven't seen them since. It felt wrong then and it feels wrong now.

bostonskaterguy86 · Jul 25, 2019

Sam L said:
Why am I being criticized here? I thought we're unanimously against self teaching. I don't really want to go into details since this is a public forum. Whilst he's not disturbing others or a danger to others, you can see that his technique is going to lead to injuries. It's just that also because he was quite dismissive of private coaching but he looks at and copies others. It's a bit creepy. I feel like it's my duty to the sport to not confront this. It's not like it's someone who randomly turns up to public sessions and tries some spirals and spins.

I was also told to mind my own business when I observed skate mum that was berating her daughter who was in tears. But she herself was in hockey skates, you think she knows anything about figure skating? I haven't seen them since. It felt wrong then and it feels wrong now.

No one here has criticized you. You asked for advice and folks gave it. No one here has said that self teaching was a good idea, but you said you’ve already offered your advice to this person and they declined to take it. Did you want people to say it’s your job to continually harass this person until they get a coach? It feels like you’re taking it personally that you didn’t get the answer you wanted, which makes me wonder why you posted at all if you weren’t going to be open to what people would have to say.

hanyuufan5 · Jul 25, 2019

Sam L said:
It's just that also because he was quite dismissive of private coaching but he looks at and copies others. It's a bit creepy. I feel like it's my duty to the sport to not confront this. It's not like it's someone who randomly turns up to public sessions and tries some spirals and spins.

I was also told to mind my own business when I observed skate mum that was berating her daughter who was in tears. But she herself was in hockey skates, you think she knows anything about figure skating? I haven't seen them since. It felt wrong then and it feels wrong now.

How intently does he look at them? Skaters in my rink look at and copy each other all the time, myself included. But briefly observing the skater's technique is very different than protracted eavesdropping on a lesson. If he's doing the latter, that might be against the rules.

Ooooh, I remember that thread. A few people did say to talk to the manager or skating director, which is what I would have said if I hadn't kept my mouth shut because they had already said it and mostly because I didn't think I could refrain from channeling my pottymouthed social worker uncle whom I grew up listening to ranting about parents publicly berating crying children. Dude's lucky he didn't get himself killed with how (verbally) aggressively he confronted some of them.

WednesdayMarch · Jul 25, 2019

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. Just like you can give advice, but people aren't bound to take it.

In summary: not your circus, not your monkey. Well done for trying. Skate away, out of harm's reach...

tstop4me · Jul 25, 2019

Sam L said:
Why am I being criticized here? I thought we're unanimously against self teaching. I don't really want to go into details since this is a public forum. Whilst he's not disturbing others or a danger to others, you can see that his technique is going to lead to injuries. It's just that also because he was quite dismissive of private coaching but he looks at and copies others. It's a bit creepy. I feel like it's my duty to the sport to not confront this. It's not like it's someone who randomly turns up to public sessions and tries some spirals and spins.

I was also told to mind my own business when I observed skate mum that was berating her daughter who was in tears. But she herself was in hockey skates, you think she knows anything about figure skating? I haven't seen them since. It felt wrong then and it feels wrong now.

(1) There was a time when I didn't have the money to afford private lessons. There was a time when I had the money, but I didn't have the time to practice enough to make private lessons worthwhile. Now I have both the money and the time, and I do take private lessons. You're not privy to the skater's personal circumstances.

(2) Perhaps "duty to the sport" (whatever that means) is not the proper perspective. Here's the way I would dissect the scenario.

(a) If the skater is posing a danger to other skaters (including yourself), you have the right to ask him to knock it off. If he doesn't comply, you have the right to report him to the rink staff; and the rink staff has the right to eject him. But by your own admission, "he's not disturbing others or a danger to others".

(b) If what the skater is doing poses a potential danger only to himself, you have perhaps the moral obligation (in your own mind) and the discretion to offer your words of caution and advice. Upon listening to your words of caution and advice, he has the right to (1) heed them or (2) ignore them. But if he chooses (2), you then do not have the right to keep badgering him. He, however, does have the right to be left alone (as long as he's not posing a danger to others, interfering with others, or breaking rink rules).

Ducky · Jul 25, 2019

Sam L said:
Why am I being criticized here? I thought we're unanimously against self teaching. I don't really want to go into details since this is a public forum. Whilst he's not disturbing others or a danger to others, you can see that his technique is going to lead to injuries. It's just that also because he was quite dismissive of private coaching but he looks at and copies others. It's a bit creepy. I feel like it's my duty to the sport to not confront this. It's not like it's someone who randomly turns up to public sessions and tries some spirals and spins.

I was also told to mind my own business when I observed skate mum that was berating her daughter who was in tears. But she herself was in hockey skates, you think she knows anything about figure skating? I haven't seen them since. It felt wrong then and it feels wrong now.

Oh, I hope that you know I'm not criticizing you for having good intentions. I don't know how you've tried talking to him about coaching but perhaps you can approach him in a more subtle manner. Something more like, "oh, my coach has me working on this exercise to keep me from doing x" or "my coach was telling me that I keep dropping my shoulder so I focus on not doing that and it's really worked" so that you're showing the value of having a coach.

It can be frustrating to watch others do things we passionately feel aren't in their best interests. But just as there's only so many times you can tell your best girl friend that her new boyfriend is a total loser before she shuts you out, there's only so many times you can tell someone that they should look into private lessons or getting a coach before they stop listening to you.

MiraiFan · Jul 25, 2019

We have one at our rink and he's really insufferable--constantly telling everyone what they are doing wrong and claiming to be working on double axels when he can't get a single around since he was never taught to jump properly. Even if he had a coach, he wouldn't listen to them, so there is no point. I just stay far away and don't engage at all.

NanaPat · Jul 25, 2019

Ducky said:
It's not a question as to whether or not learning to figure skate on your own is all right or a wise thing to do. The question is whether the OP should continue to try and get the self-taught adult figure skater to take lessons when the self-taught skater has not sought out nor seems to want her opinion.

I'm quoting Ducky again because they are spot on.

There is a difference in the advice given to the person who is contemplating learning figure skating on their own and to a concerned bystander.

To the skater, the advice is "Don't do it. Get a coach or take group lessons. Your progress will be better and chance of injury reduced."

To the bystander, the advice is "You've done all you can" with a side order of suggestions for what more they might be able to do, in certain circumstances.

NanaPat · Jul 25, 2019

Ducky said:
Oh, I hope that you know I'm not criticizing you for having good intentions. I don't know how you've tried talking to him about coaching but perhaps you can approach him in a more subtle manner. Something more like, "oh, my coach has me working on this exercise to keep me from doing x" or "my coach was telling me that I keep dropping my shoulder so I focus on not doing that and it's really worked" so that you're showing the value of having a coach.

I disagree with relating skating tips from your coach. I know you mean well, but I'm afraid it could turn into the OP's coach "coaching" the self-taught skater at one remove, without actually seeing them skate. It could reinforce the "I don't need no coach" mentality if the skater thinks they're getting coaching second-hand, for free.

Maybe "I used to have that problem, but my coach gave me exercises to correct it" would be OK, but with NO details of what the exercises are.

But it's probably too late for that, since the OP has already spoken to the skater about the need for professional guidance.

Self-taught figure skater

Sam L

tstop4me

1111bm

DanseMacabre

daniiltimin

Ic3Rabbit

Former Elite, now Pro. ⛸️

thesoundofice

1111bm

Ducky

DanseMacabre

VegMom

Sam L

bostonskaterguy86

hanyuufan5

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WednesdayMarch

Nicer When Fed

tstop4me

Ducky

MiraiFan

NanaPat

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