Best skater of each quadrennial- 1977 to today | Page 6 | Golden Skate

Best skater of each quadrennial- 1977 to today

4everchan

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Mar 7, 2015
Country
Martinique
This is an interesting thread, but I would have loved to see a bit more of the methods of assigning the merit of best skater for each 4-year period. A lot of emphasis seems to be on the major competitions, but e.g. the Olympics is one competition (however defining) in 4 years – what if the skater/team who won just about everything else in those 4 years gets injured and cannot participate or cannot skate to his/her/their normal level? Sometimes the OG winner can also be a bit of a surprise compared to what has happened in the previous seasons. Also, how to evaluate a skater who has skated only a season or two of the quad for whatever reason and ends up winning a lot? Do their/her/his excellent performances in one season outdo 4 years of good results?

I decided to spend a couple of evenings looking at single skaters (don’t have any opinions on pairs or dance) and tried to figure out a way to evaluate the results.

First, the skaters included per quad were those who at the end were on the OG podium plus possible other winners of major competitions (WC, EC/4CC/GPF if they featured as medalists in more than one competition). Second, I counted their results for the 4 years based on their Wikipedia entries (not entirely unproblematic as a source, but particularly for the 1970s and 1980s and even 1990s not much else is easily available). Third, compared the major players with each other and to the suggestions by the OP and others. I counted simple percentages for medaled competitions, won competitions. Plus in the end looked at results in major competitions, if some skaters were very close otherwise.

1976-1980 Hoffman
Robin Cousins, OG, medaled in every competition, won 4/9 competitions; major wins OG, EC, 3 medals WC, 3 medals EC
Jan Hoffmann, OS, medaled in every competition, won 4/10 competitions; major wins WC, 3 EC, medals OG, 3 medals WC, 1 medal EC
Hoffmann wins (more wins, medals and won more mutual competitions).

1980-1984 Hamilton
Scott Hamilton, OG, medaled in every competition, won every competition.
Hamilton wins (there was no competition).

1984-1988 Orser
Brian Boitano, OG, medaled in every competition, won 6/11 competitions; major wins OG, 2 WC, 2 medals WC
Brian Orser, OS, medaled in every competition, won 5/11 competitions; major wins WC, medal OG, 2 medals WC
Boitano wins (more wins, won more mutual competitions).

1988-1992 Petrenko
Victor Petrenko, OG, medaled 14/15 competitions, won 7/15 competitions (47 %), major wins OG, WC, EC, 2 medals WC, 1 medal EC (EC not used here because there was no equal championship for Browning to participate at the time)
Kurt Browning, no OG medal, medaled 13/14 competitions, won 9/14 competitions (64 %), major wins 3 WC, 1 medal in WC
Browning wins (more wins, won more mutual competitions).

1992-1994 Stojko
Alexei Urmanov, OG, medaled 7/9 competitions, won 2/9 competitions; major wins OG, 1 medal WC, 1 medal EC
Elvis Stojko, OS, medaled in every competition, won 3/5 competitions; major wins WC, medal OG, 1 medal WC
Stojko wins.

1994-1998 Eldredge
Ilja Kulik, OG, medaled 13/19 competitions, won 6/19 competitions; major wins OG, GPF, EC, 1 medal WC, 1 medal EC (EC not included here because there was no comparable competition for Stojko/Eldgrede)
Elvis Stojko, OS, medaled 14/15 competitions, won 10/15 competitions; major wins 2 WC, GPF, 1 medal OG, 2 medals GPF
Todd Eldredge, no OG medal, medaled 15/18 competitions, won 8/18 competitions; major wins WC, 3 medals WC, 2 medals GPF
Stojko wins (again, and quite clearly).

1998-2002 Yagudin
Alexei Yagudin, OG, medaled in every competition, won 18/24 competitions; major wins OG, 3 WC, 2 GPF, 2 EC, 1 medal WC, 1 medal GPF, 2 medals EC
Evgeny Plushenko, OS, medaled in 24/25 competitions, won 17/25 competitions; major wins WC, 2 GPF, 2 EC, medal OG, 2 medals WC, 1 medal GPF, 1 medal EC
Yagudin wins (surprisingly clearly).

2002-2006 Plushenko
Evgeny Plushenko, OG, medaled in every competition, won 16/19 competitions; major wins OG, 2 WC, 2 GPF, 2 EC, 1 medal GPF, 1 medal EC
Stephane Lambiel, OS, medaled in 9/15 competitions, won 5/15 competitions; major wins 2 WC, GPF, medal OG, 1 medal EC
Plushenko wins (easily).

2006-2010 Joubert
Evan Lysacek, OG, medaled in 14/15 competitions (93 %), won 6/15 competitions (40 %); major wins OG, WC, GPF, 4CC, 3 medals GPF, 1 medal 4CC
Brian Joubert, no medal OG, medaled in 14/16 competitions (88 %), won 9/16 competitions (56 %); major wins WC, GPF, 2 EC, 1 medal WC, 2 medals EC
Lysacek wins. (Lambiel was also mentioned for this quad, but Takahashi is third and Lambiel only fourth.)

2010-2014 Hanyu
Yuzuru Hanyu, OG, medaled in 15/20 competitions, wins 8/20 competitions; major wins OG, WC, GPF, 1 medal WC, 2 medals 4CC
Patrick Chan, OS, medaled in every competition, wins 12/17 competitions; major wins 3 WC, 2 GPF, 4CC, medal OG, 2 medals GPF
Patrick Chan wins (and pretty clearly, too).

2014-2018 Hanyu
Yuzuru Hanyu, OG, medaled in 17/18 competitions, won 9/18 competitions; major wins OG, WC, 3 GPF, 2 medals WC, 1 medal 4CC
Shoma Uno, OS, medaled in 19/23 competitions, won 8/23 competitions; major wins none, 2 medals WC, 3 medals GPF, 2 medals 4CC
Javier Fernández, OB, medaled in 16/19 competitions, won 13/19 competitions; major wins 2 WC, 4 EC, 2 medals GPF
Hanyu wins (but not as overwhelmingly as some might like to think).

So, looking at the whole 4 years and all the results gives slightly different names from the OPs list. Some are tight, like Boitano/Orser, Petrenko/Browning, but very few have gotten such domination as Hamilton, Yagudin and Plushenko. Hamilton and Plushenko really did not have good competition, but that Yagudin managed what he did against Plushenko, is pretty formidable.

I still cannot understand how people can suggest that 2010-4 was Hanyu’s when it was all Chan’s – he basically lost 2 significant competitions in those 4 years (2013 GPF and 2014 OG). That Hanyu won those competitions and the 2014 WC does not really make him the best in those 4 years.

E

this is also how I would analyze this for men... thank you for typing it out... Patrick was so clearly the dominant skater from 2010-14 and that is exactly why Hanyu got so popular by being the underdog, the younger skater, unexpectedly winning the gold in Sochi... it made a lot of people happy... especially those who didn't like Patrick.. and there were many.... I also agree about 2014-18 not being that clear Hanyu's.... Javier was very impressive with back to back wins... but I will not argue Hanyu's win here because he was the top dog... the one most people thought would win... so he did lose some, but he did win some big ones, including his incredible NHK-GPF with clean programs... to me this is the highlight of Yuzu's career....
 

yume

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Mar 11, 2016
Yes it's close for the 2015-2018 quad. I think that what mainly makes the difference and can make think that Fernandez deserves the quad is that in 2014-2016 the two big events that Hanyu won in fashion were not the biggests while the two that Fernandez won were the biggests. But imo what can make the difference in favor of Hanyu is that the two last seasons of Fernandez weren't that great. In 2016-2017 he didn't medal at GPF and worlds. In 2017-2018 he had not qualify for GPF. That's 3 big events where he didnt medal/hadn't qualify. While Hanyu had qualify/medaled at every major competition and missed the podium just once (2014 NHK).
Hanyu's biggest opponent was (and still is) his consistency imo. Those two bad free skates at worlds were costly. And he's always in slow mode before GPF. If skating gods had given him more consistency things would have been definitely less interesting during the last quad (no suspense) .:biggrin:
 

Colonel Green

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 3, 2018
Country
Canada
Yes it's close for the 2015-2018 quad. I think that what mainly makes the difference and can make think that Fernandez deserves the quad is that in 2014-2016 the two big events that Hanyu won in fashion were not the biggests while the two that Fernandez won were the biggests. But imo what can make the difference in favor of Hanyu is that the two last seasons of Fernandez weren't that great. In 2016-2017 he didn't medal at GPF and worlds. In 2017-2018 he had not qualify for GPF. That's 3 big events where he didnt medal/hadn't qualify. While Hanyu had qualify/medaled at every major competition and missed the podium just once (2014 NHK).
Hanyu's biggest opponent was (and still is) his consistency imo. Those two bad free skates at worlds were costly. And he's always in slow mode before GPF. If skating gods had given him more consistency things would have been definitely less interesting during the last quad (no suspense) .:biggrin:
Yes, for the last quad Javi’s situation is similar to Duhamel/Radford — really strong first two seasons, tapered off noticeably in the third, rallied in the fourth to finish very respectably.

For Hanyu, he had various injury/consistency issues throughout, but I think he remained the guy everybody was chasing even when he wasn’t winning Worlds.
 

grantjarvis

Spectator
Joined
Aug 14, 2019
I agree with rating Slutskaya over Kwan for the 1999-2002 quad, but I dont agree with the term easily. I think it is still close between the two. The Olympic/World results are a virtual tie, with a very slight edge to Kwan probably. Irina was so much more dominant at the grand prix final, the regular season the last 3 seasons of the quad, and most of her head to head meetings with Kwan, I go with her, but it is still close between them.

I think Fernandez vs Hanyu for 2015-2018 might be close but not that close. Fernandez still missed the podium at the 2017 worlds, did not win a grand prix final, and did not even get silver (even though he was robbed) at the Games.

Tara vs Kwan for 1998 is a hard one too. It depends how much you value consistency and longevity. If you value either of those things more than a bit it is Kwan for sure. Tara has an impressive array of big titles though which makes it close,

Petrenko vs Browning is very tough. I go back and forth on that one. Browning was the best skater 3 of 4 years of the quad. Petrenko owned 92 though, but even there he lost at his own Nationals and Europeans. Petrenko owned the 89-90 season until losing at worlds to Browning who had a bad pre Worlds season. Petrenko bombed the 89 worlds but was otherwise very consistent and ended with a flourish with the Olympic Gold but with a subpar skate, and world wins.
 

grantjarvis

Spectator
Joined
Aug 14, 2019
I actually don't disagree with naming Savchenko/Massot as the team of the 2014-18 quad (if you view the quad as a story, they have the most obvious narrative), but this isn't true -- on a per season basis, the most dominant team was Duhamel/Radford's 2014-15 season, where they won everything they entered (which S/M did not in 2017-18) and by generally comparable margins.

I looked up the past results and you are right. D&R were more dominant in the 14-15 season than I remember. I still consider the dominance of S&M in 2017-2018 possibly more impressive given the competition (way tougher, D&R only faced a non prime Sui & Han and an already declining Stolbova & Kilimov) and emphatic nature of most of the wins, and WR scores, but on paper D&R did not lose once that season while S&M lost once with a poor skate, to D&R ironically enough.

I just dont agree with people passing off Savchenko & Massot as a 1 event wonder or something. At Worlds and the GPF they were even better than the Games, and in their time competing with Duhamel & Radford were really better all but the first half season they were able to compete in winter 2016. They were stronger than D&R the entire 2016-2017 season too basically, the scores and general showings indicate this. Yes D&R were injured at world but nobody was expecting a defense of their world title given their season, I think even healthy the best they might do is bronze like the 2018 Games when they were actually skating much better than they were leading into the 2017 worlds. And even that would be iffy when they lost to Tarasova & Morozov a couple times, and got throttled by them at the GPF where Zhang also beat him; I know T&M beat S&M at Europeans that year too before losing to them at owrlds.
 

grantjarvis

Spectator
Joined
Aug 14, 2019
Also consider all-around skill development - Asada & Kostner improved tremendously between 2010 and 2014 in almost all aspects of their skating whereas the same cannot be said about Kim.

Kostner yes. Asada hardly. She might have improved in some ways, but her jumps got increasingly worse as her career went along, minus the anomaly (and it was a huge anomaly) at her 2014 Olympic LP.
 

yume

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Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 11, 2016
Kostner yes. Asada hardly. She might have improved in some ways, but her jumps got increasingly worse as her career went along, minus the anomaly (and it was a huge anomaly) at her 2014 Olympic LP.
I don't see how her jumps/layouts were worse than in 2010 olympic season. In term of quality or consistency.

She reworked her jumps so her two first seasons were not good. But in the two last seasons she won every international competition but 2013 worlds and olympics. She got back 2A-3T and 3F-3lo which she didn't have in 2010 olympics. Sure she had UR issues but it wasn't worse than in the previous quad.
 

Triple loop

Rinkside
Joined
Aug 19, 2018
I totally agree. Mao hit lots of obstacles after the 2010 season. Reworking her technique from the basics did take time and she struggled with those jumps. Then in 2011 her mom passed away. I think I read that Mao wanted to quit after the 2012 Worlds. However, she never gave up and the jumps started working again. Her artistry also vastly improved. She finally related more to the audience. I was very sad that she fell in the 2014 Olympics short but she showed everyone who she is in that memorable long program . And finally another world championship that same year. So, I’d say she did get better. 😀
 

Ballade88

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 19, 2017
I don't see how one can call Mao's Sochi LP performance an anomaly and not say the same for Carolina's performances in Sochi. I still think Carolina's record during that squad isn't as strong when the ladies field between late 2010-2012 was quite weak. Kim was mostly absent and Mao was reworking her technique. It was so weak that Alyssa Czisny was even considered a strong contender. Carolina had the most success during that period. There is more of a debate about dominance in the cases of Tara, Michelle, and Irina, because they would be expected as gold medal contenders at major competitions. That wasn't the case for Carolina who was still inconsistent and lacked the technical content, with Sochi as the rare exception. I would say that she was a skater that improved but was also fortunate to have good timing, which she made good use of to become a strong competitor, but not a dominant player.
 

yume

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Record Breaker
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Mar 11, 2016
I don't see how one can call Mao's Sochi LP performance an anomaly and not say the same for Carolina's performances in Sochi. I still think Carolina's record during that squad isn't as strong when the ladies field between late 2010-2012 was quite weak. Kim was mostly absent and Mao was reworking her technique. It was so weak that Alyssa Czisny was even considered a strong contender. Carolina had the most success during that period. There is more of a debate about dominance in the cases of Tara, Michelle, and Irina, because they would be expected as gold medal contenders at major competitions. That wasn't the case for Carolina who was still inconsistent and lacked the technical content, with Sochi as the rare exception. I would say that she was a skater that improved but was also fortunate to have good timing, which she made good use of to become a strong competitor, but not a dominant player.

Czisny should have been the 2011 worlds bronze medalist imo.
 

tryingfish

Rinkside
Joined
Aug 26, 2019
Everyone says Kostner is inconsistent but she was much more consistent than Asada in the 2011-2014 period. Best of that quadrennial is probably Yu Na Kim, but by a lesser margin than the 2007-2010 quad where Kim was best by a huge margin. However Kostner would be my 2nd choice over Asada for 2011-2014 if I picked someone other than Kim.
 

tryingfish

Rinkside
Joined
Aug 26, 2019
Only watched skating starting in Lillehammer.

1995-1998: Pairs nobody, Ladies Kwan or Lipinski, Men Kulik, Dance Gritschuk & Platov. I guess objectively I should pick Stojko but I do not like him. Kwan and Lipinski is almost an impossible call. All the pairs sucked or were only good a year.

1999-2002: Pairs Berezhnaya & Sikhardludez (spelling), Men Yagudin, Dance Anissina & Peizerat, Ladies Slutskaya. All pretty easy straightforward choices. Slutskaya vs Kwan is close I guess but Slutskaya had more success overall, and the better record when you factor in all her Grand Prix final and European wins with her Olympic silver and world medals, and generally had the better of her rivalry with Kwan from 2000-2002 outside of only the 2000 and 2001 worlds, and even there Kwan only won since Irina made mistakes, and since Maria made mistakes at the 2000 worlds too. Every event Slutskaya entered was hers to win or lose by making mistakes. The other 3 are super obvious, Anissina & Peizerat should have gone unbeaten for the quad and only didn't due to politics. Yagudin vs Plushenko was a big rivalry but it is clear who won the battle. Sale & Pelletier are overrated clowns who deserve 0 world medals, not even a single world or Olympic bronze, and even with the judges bending over for them, B&S still had more success and a better record for the quad.

2003-2006: Pairs Totmianina & Marinin, Ladies Cohen. Neither Slutskaya or Arakawa were consistent enough over the quad to get it. It isn't Kwan. It sure as heck isnt Meissner. It can't be Asada who was ruled out of any Olympics or worlds by age rules. So it is Cohen by default. I hate giving it to someone who won no big titles. I think she won one of the Grand Prix finals, I forget now though. It wasn't that memorable if she did when I do not even remember it. Men Plushenko. Dance Nakva & Kostomarov. T&M and Chinese Shen & Zhao are close but T&M have the better record on paper.

2007-2010: Ladies Kim, Men Joubert. Lysacek was a non factor until the final 11 months of the quad so I went with Joubert even with his Olympic flop. Dance Domnina & Shabalin or Delobel & Schoenfelder or Virtue & Moir. Can't pick the dance, no clear winner, but not Davis & White or Belbin & Agosto for sure.

2011-2014: Ladies Kim, Men Chan, Dance Davis & White, Pairs Volsozhar & Trankov. Easiest one yet.

2015-2018: Ladies Medvedeva, Men Hanyu, Dance Papdakis & Cizeron, Pairs Sui & Han. Both pairs and dance were hard. Dance was a toss up of P&C and V&M, but I went with P&C since V&M only skated 15 months of the quad. Pairs was a toss up between Sui & Han, Savchenko & Massot, and maybe even Duhamel & Radford all reasonable picks.
 

yume

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Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 11, 2016
Everyone says Kostner is inconsistent but she was much more consistent than Asada in the 2011-2014 period. Best of that quadrennial is probably Yu Na Kim, but by a lesser margin than the 2007-2010 quad where Kim was best by a huge margin. However Kostner would be my 2nd choice over Asada for 2011-2014 if I picked someone other than Kim.
Kostner was more consistent only in 2010-2011 and 2011-2012 season imo. When Asada was relearning her jumps.
Kim doesn't win 2007-2010 by a huge margin imo. She wins, but not by a huge margin. Not when Asada beat her three times at worlds.
 

tryingfish

Rinkside
Joined
Aug 26, 2019
Kostner was more consistent only in 2010-2011 and 2011-2012 season imo. When Asada was rekearning her jumps.
Kim doesn't win 2007-2010 by a huge margin imo. She wins, but not by a huge margin. Not when Asada beat her three times at worlds.

Huge margin might be the wrong wording, I mean clear margin. In other words Kim is the clear winner for the 2007-2010 quad, and it is not a tough choice to make.

Kostner beat Asada at 4 of the 5 worlds/Olympics that quad, and medaled in all 5 while Asada medaled in 2 of the 5. Kostner was far more consistent that quad. I picked Kim as the best of that quad too, so it does not really matter to this topic though.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Wellcome, tryingfish, and thanks for joining us. :yes:

(I'm not 100% sure that Sale and Pelletier are overrated clowns, but to each his own. ;) )
 

tryingfish

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Aug 26, 2019
Wellcome, tryingfish, and thanks for joining us. :yes:

(I'm not 100% sure that Sale and Pelletier are overrated clowns, but to each his own. ;) )


I overstated of course, but I can't stand them. So arrogant, such terrible attitudes, and whining their way to a gold medal they didn't earn in 2002 after so many gifts they got the previous 2 seasons.

Even with Sale & Pelletier having more gifts to fill up a Christmas sleigh, B&S made the slightly better record with Olympic Gold, world title, world silver, medals at all 4 grand prix finals, 8 total grand prix event wins, and all 4 European titles while Sale & Pelletier could not even win all 4 Canadian titles.
 

tryingfish

Rinkside
Joined
Aug 26, 2019
Wellcome, tryingfish, and thanks for joining us. :yes:

(I'm not 100% sure that Sale and Pelletier are overrated clowns, but to each his own. ;) )

Do you agree with my other choices?

And I assume you agree that even if you disagree with me on S&P they are best 2nd best of 99-2002 behind Berezhnaya.
 

Ballade88

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 19, 2017
Kostner was more consistent only in 2010-2011 and 2011-2012 season imo. When Asada was relearning her jumps.
Kim doesn't win 2007-2010 by a huge margin imo. She wins, but not by a huge margin. Not when Asada beat her three times at worlds.

Agree. It's misleading to just base it on the number of medals won and ignore the context. In my opinion, Kostner is neither the most dominant nor the best skater of that squad. To be dominant, you need to be seen as a gold medal contender. And outside of 2012 Worlds, Kostner was rarely seen as one. Besides Kim, she was outshone by both Mao and Yulia in the 2013-2014 season and was placed behind them for medal contenders in Sochi. Kim would be the most dominant skater. For the best skater, I evaluate it based on the best performances of the skater. In that case, Kostner would still rank behind Yuna and Mao. Her Sochi performances were marvelous, but I will still rank it behind Mao's Sochi FS, her 2014 Worlds SP, and Yuna's 2013 Worlds LP.
Also of note is that after Mao never lost a long program to Kostner after 2012 (when she returned to more than 50% of her form). It can be argued that she should have placed higher at 2013 Worlds imo.
 

tryingfish

Rinkside
Joined
Aug 26, 2019
Kostner always seems to get contradictory rules. I have a hard time picking Kostner for best of the quad when she lost to Kim all 3 times they met at Worlds/ Olympics. Same gig for Mao, except even more decisively so as she wasn't even close to beating Kim in any of the 3. So Kostner vs Mao does not really matter, Kim is my choice for best of that quad even with only 3 competitions. The fact she was robbed of the 2014 Olympic Gold in blatant fashion makes it more clear.

Mao vs Kostner, well Kostner did much better in the biggest events- Olympics/Worlds. That is what I tend to look at first. That is why I would pick her 2nd best of the quad after Kim. If some are even putting Kwan over Slutskaya for 99-2002 just based on Olympics/Worlds how can you justify putting Mao over Kostner as 2nd best of that quad when there is a far bigger gap in Olympic/Worlds results than Kwan had over Slutskaya which was almost nothing. And when Slutskaya was even more superior to Kwan at the Grand Prix final and regular season dominance than Mao was to Kostner. Keep the standards equal people.
 

Ballade88

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 19, 2017
Kostner is a contradictory skater. Outside of 2011-2012 season, she was no where seen as a gold medal contender unlike Slutskaya, Kwan, or even Cohen. This is mostly due to her own inconsistencies (missing the GPF in 2013) and injuries early in the season (2012). The judges were willing to reward her whenever she skated relatively well and even when she didn't imo (2013 and 2014 worlds).

There is an argument to make about her being the "best" skater which differs from "dominant" as one poster pointed out, although I would say other skaters still had more impressive individual performances.
 
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