Strange Fruit, Inappropriate for Skating? | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Strange Fruit, Inappropriate for Skating?

theharleyquinn

Medalist
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
I don't find that to be a particularly common pattern regarding tragedy in particular. I mean, I do find that most junior music selections are chosen to teach the athletes how to develop different strengths as performers.

But I think there is a lot more to the tragic performance tradition as a whole. There was quite a good post about the significance of portraying tragedy in Russian culture a couple years ago. Of responding to real-life tragedy via performance. As a form of tribute. I think the post might have been on FSU rather than here or I would try to search for it and try to link it. But it was a very thoughtful post and really easy to see why tragedy is such a significant part of Russian cultural tradition.

And, I would hazard a guess, also a large part of the reason it is such a significant part of skating tradition as well. Though the tragic storytelling tradition is certainly a huge part of many other cultures, as anyone who has been compelled to sit through a Greek Drama or 19th Century Spanish literature class can attest.

The reality is: figure skating is not very attuned to African American cultural tradition and the themes of that song are far beyond the scope of acceptable music for competitive performance in the sport, especially in this case where no African American skater nor choreographer is involved. None of the cultures you referenced nor the sport can retroactively change what the history or tradition of that song is. The medium is just improper on every ground.
 

Ophelia

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 6, 2013
I find that these types of songs about injustice/genocide/etc. are often chosen because choreographers believe the songs themselves will somehow elevate the skater's sophistication or artistry just because of the songs' subject matter, and that is incredibly cheap, offensive, and insulting.

*cough*Averbukh*cough*
 

macy

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Joined
Nov 12, 2011

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.
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Mar 3, 2014
Country
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Is it confirmed that she's going to use the lyrics?

The report I read (but that was here and I do not read Japanese) was attributing the song to Nina Simone. That version would need to have lyrics.

I can only hope her team decides to use only Sinnerman, and not Strange Fruit :pray:
 

crazydreamer

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Sinnerman is fine. But Strange Fruit is really not one of those songs where you can just omit a few lyrics and it's fine -- the entire song is just really dark and horrible imagery. I can't imagine sitting in a skating area and listening to that. Maybe if it's used only as an intro or something like Evgenia's 9/11 program, it might work. But I don't think even Evgenia at her peak could have gotten away with skating an entire program to the sound of 9/11 recordings, which is kind of what a SF program would be like.
 

4everchan

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Mar 7, 2015
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Martinique
as a musician, i am always conflicted with what goes on in figure skating..

for instance pooja kalyan is doing Thais mediation... well.. i would say that this is wildly inappropriate ... just as much as big spender for a 13 y o...

however, if we do not know the context of Thais... nor the lyrics of songs and just listen to the music... which is what i believe choreographers do, well.. is there really a problem?

To me the answer is YES... as others know.... I believe that some choreographers should educate themselves better about the meaning behind songs.... and so should the skaters... but is that too much to ask to a teenager who may not understand the history and lyrics in a foreign language???

Coaches and choreographers have to get up to 2019.... there are things that seemed appropriate just only 10-20 years ago but with the current social context and the social networks, and considering the large amount of music available out there, it is time that figure skating gets the memo....
 

nussnacker

one and only
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Joined
Mar 16, 2019
Totally understand when 15 year old from Japan might not have an idea about the past or what she's skating to.
Benoit is an international choreographer, I have no idea what was going on in his mind.

On one hand, I do understand that if one's culture did not have a certain history, some people from that culture might be having a hard time understanding why certain things are inappropriate in other cultures, it might simply be unfamiliar to them as a whole, hence they might not understand what's appropriate and what's not.
On the other, we live in the era of internet, historical knowledge is widely available with a few buttons pushed and full grown adults that work internationally should have awareness about things like this.
If a kid does not understand any english (poor excuse, since google translate should easily resolve these issues), at least Benoit should be aware what song's about, he's quite fluent.
 

Harriet

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Oct 23, 2017
Country
Australia
Fro anyone who's not familiar with the song and its performance tradition, this is Billie Holliday's live rendition, for context.
 

TallyT

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Country
Australia
Sinnerman is fine. But Strange Fruit is really not one of those songs where you can just omit a few lyrics and it's fine -- the entire song is just really dark and horrible imagery. I can't imagine sitting in a skating area and listening to that. Maybe if it's used only as an intro or something like Evgenia's 9/11 program, it might work. But I don't think even Evgenia at her peak could have gotten away with skating an entire program to the sound of 9/11 recordings, which is kind of what a SF program would be like.

While I tend to look askance at many of the Schindler's List programs (especially, and I don't mean to offend her fans, this is just me, Yulia Lipnitskaya's) they do come from a work of art that essentially is about a small - as against the backdrop - but good, even heroic, action taken against the overwhelming darkness that was the Holocaust, it's horror and tragedy and pathos but touched with the tiny light of people like Schindler. I can sort of see where they are trying to come from.

Strange Fruit is about the darkness itself. And its imagery is ugly, and it's meant to be ugly, and trying to 'pretty' it up would be unthinkable. I cannot imagine for one minute how a little girl and her team intend to emote that imagery (I mean, it's about innocent murdered people dangling from trees?!?!?) and I really really don't want to see it.
 

TontoK

Hot Tonto
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Jan 28, 2013
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On the other side of the debate, art as protest has a long and noble history.

I'm all over the place on my feelings about this. And, honestly, I'm unfamiliar with the song itself and with the skater. So I wander into the discussion with no preconceptions.

I don't have a problem with a non-African-American skating to the song. Anyone could be horrified by the subject of lynching... everyone SHOULD be horrified... and that reaction could translate to a desire to reflect on that tragedy through artistic skating. So, no, I don't think it's a song that ONLY an African-American could possibly choose.

That said, I don't think it's an age-appropriate song for this skater. Could this music be used in a thought-provoking and beautiful program? I don't know. For this choice to work, it would require a tremendous level of maturity and thoughtfulness. I do not think a young girl is the one to try to do that.

I bet that a previous contributor was correct. I think this is a "team decision" made to bring artistic gravitas to a skater who probably hasn't earned it. I seriously doubt a 15 year old Japanese skater has Billie Holliday on the I-pod, and that she chose this because she liked the tune.
 

Ic3Rabbit

Former Elite, now Pro. ⛸️
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Joined
Jan 9, 2017
Country
Olympics
as a musician, i am always conflicted with what goes on in figure skating..

for instance pooja kalyan is doing Thais mediation... well.. i would say that this is wildly inappropriate ... just as much as big spender for a 13 y o...

however, if we do not know the context of Thais... nor the lyrics of songs and just listen to the music... which is what i believe choreographers do, well.. is there really a problem?

To me the answer is YES... as others know.... I believe that some choreographers should educate themselves better about the meaning behind songs.... and so should the skaters... but is that too much to ask to a teenager who may not understand the history and lyrics in a foreign language???

Coaches and choreographers have to get up to 2019.... there are things that seemed appropriate just only 10-20 years ago but with the current social context and the social networks, and considering the large amount of music available out there, it is time that figure skating gets the memo....

I agree with you on many aspects of your post. I will tell you though that there are some choreographers and skaters that do their homework and research or know about what they are choreographing or not choreographing before they do it, or not.

Then you have others that don't and just say ooh this music sounds like a good program and throw it out there and then we have a touchy situation like the one at play in this thread.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
I'm all over the place on my feelings about this. ...

On the other hand, there is a wealth of just plain music on Nina Simone's "Sinnerman." A lot of instrumental/rhythm, some scatting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QH3Fx41Jpl4&t=3m30s

As for the lyrics, it's basically just "gimme that old-time-religion" Gospel. There are two kinds of people in the world: God and sinners. If you're not God, then you are a sinner. You better get straight with God, Sinnerman, cause the Judgment Day is a-coming' and you got no place to hide. :)
 

believed

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 20, 2018
I don't have a problem with a non-African-American skating to the song. Anyone could be horrified by the subject of lynching... everyone SHOULD be horrified... and that reaction could translate to a desire to reflect on that tragedy through artistic skating. So, no, I don't think it's a song that ONLY an African-American could possibly choose.

But it is a song only an African American could choose. This song is inextricable from its history, which does not apply to everyone.
 

vesperalvioletta

Medalist
Joined
Oct 20, 2017
Country
United-States
When I first saw this thread I was praying that this was a joke. Now that I see it's not, I am deeply horrified. I realize that the skater in question is Japanese and that she and her team of course don't have the same cultural understanding of racism and slavery in America that an American would, but that does not excuse them from not doing their research.

It genuinely makes me sick to think that someone with no understanding of what this song is about is about to use it in a program like it's just another generically sad, soulful skating ballad. There should be some way to petition against this, in my opinion.
 

Suze

Rinkside
Joined
Nov 13, 2012
Yes. Strange Fruit is inappropriate as a competitive skating program. The song is a painfully clear metaphor for lynching. And lynching is just too brutalizing a topic for a sporting event.

It is absolutely mind boggling that a 15yr old from Japan of all people is using this. I couldn’t think of someone less impacted by the civil rights movement or connected to the ghastly horrors of racial atrocities against black people in America.


I shudder to think what possible costume choices Iwano may pick. SHUDDER.
 
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