Question about young skater - Jackson vs. Riedell

Hi all! I am a very inexperienced skating parent and I really appreciate the comments and advice that I've seen on this forum. Now I have a question that I would love to hear some thoughts on.

My 5 year-old daughter has been skating for a few months. We started out with used skates (Riedell) because I wasn't sure if she was going to keep up with the hobby but she's advancing quite quickly and would spend 7 days a week skating if we had the time. As the skates she has been using lost a hook, I started looking into getting her another pair. Her teacher said that used skates would still be fine for her and suggested that, for the skills she's currently learning, we look for a pair of Riedell Emerald's or Model 17. However, she said if we found a comparable pair of Jackson's, that would be fine.

So I got a great deal on very lightly used Jackson Mystique's after reading a post on Kinzie's Closet that correlated them with the Emeralds. However, my daughter just hates them. She says that the "bottoms of the skates hurt." She's skated in them three times and still is having problems with the skates. We've checked her feet against the insoles to make sure that it wasn't a size issue. I've also been having her walk around the house in them to see if that will help to break them in. I've read a lot of posts on this forum that say new skates take a long time to break in but is this normal? If I was to get a pair of Emeralds, would she have the same issue? Or is there a significant difference in shape/padding/etc.? Should I buy her a pair of completely new skates? (She skates on average 3-4 days a week for 1-2 hours generally so she does put some wear on them.)

I would love any advice on breaking in skates, what we might be doing wrong, etc.

gwenever said:

Hi all! I am a very inexperienced skating parent and I really appreciate the comments and advice that I've seen on this forum. Now I have a question that I would love to hear some thoughts on.

My 5 year-old daughter has been skating for a few months. We started out with used skates (Riedell) because I wasn't sure if she was going to keep up with the hobby but she's advancing quite quickly and would spend 7 days a week skating if we had the time. As the skates she has been using lost a hook, I started looking into getting her another pair. Her teacher said that used skates would still be fine for her and suggested that, for the skills she's currently learning, we look for a pair of Riedell Emerald's or Model 17. However, she said if we found a comparable pair of Jackson's, that would be fine.

So I got a great deal on very lightly used Jackson Mystique's after reading a post on Kinzie's Closet that correlated them with the Emeralds. However, my daughter just hates them. She says that the "bottoms of the skates hurt." She's skated in them three times and still is having problems with the skates. We've checked her feet against the insoles to make sure that it wasn't a size issue. I've also been having her walk around the house in them to see if that will help to break them in. I've read a lot of posts on this forum that say new skates take a long time to break in but is this normal? If I was to get a pair of Emeralds, would she have the same issue? Or is there a significant difference in shape/padding/etc.? Should I buy her a pair of completely new skates? (She skates on average 3-4 days a week for 1-2 hours generally so she does put some wear on them.)

I would love any advice on breaking in skates, what we might be doing wrong, etc.

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It would be worth it to actually have your daughter fit by someone to see if those style of skates even work for her foot size and shape. (All brands fit different).
Figure skates do not fit like shoes. So if your daughter is a size 3 in a shoe doesn't mean that translates to skate size. Buying used skates online without knowing what really fits her and having an official fitting is not a good idea. And please don't go to a sports store to do that because you need a skate pro to fit her, they are not one.

If a Jackson boot is what is correct for her foot then the Elle should be okay for her skill level. But it shouldn't be painful in the places she is saying, and also should not take long to get comfortable and a bit broken in. If her ankles are bothering her look into bunga pads. Also, wear a thin, breathable sock or tights inside the boots. No thick socks like one would wear with regular boots or sneakers.

I wish your daughter much luck in her skating and you as a skating mom. If there is anything you need along the way advice-wise, I am glad to help.

Thank you so much for the advice! We had her measured at our rink's pro shop to get the skate size but it was a pretty quick process. (They just measured the bottom of her foot.) I'll ask her teachers about other places to have her fitted. I've been leaning toward just getting her a new pair so that I know she is in the right size/fit but I'd hate to spend ~$150 and have the same problem. I appreciate knowing that this is not a normal issue to have!

For inside the boot, we've been using Mondor tights or dance tights. However, I've also seen a lot of skaters barefoot. Is there any advantage to one way or another?

Thank you for your help!

Here's two cents from someone who is nine times your daughter's age and has the exact same issues as your daughter (higher level boot though)....what type of foot arch does she have? High/average, or low/mostly flat? I think that Jackson may have a more steeply arched footbed than Riedell, and if so, that would be painful to someone with low/flat feet. She may just have a Riedell foot. However, if she has very high arched feet, she may need aftermarket insoles with more support in the arch area.

She has a lower arch so that would make sense! I didn't realize that there was a difference between the two footbeds. The rental skates at the rink are Riedells as is her first pair and neither of those gave her any problems. Thanks for mentioning that.

gwenever said:

Thank you so much for the advice! We had her measured at our rink's pro shop to get the skate size but it was a pretty quick process. (They just measured the bottom of her foot.) I'll ask her teachers about other places to have her fitted. I've been leaning toward just getting her a new pair so that I know she is in the right size/fit but I'd hate to spend ~$150 and have the same problem. I appreciate knowing that this is not a normal issue to have!

For inside the boot, we've been using Mondor tights or dance tights. However, I've also seen a lot of skaters barefoot. Is there any advantage to one way or another?

Thank you for your help!

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You are welcome! All of my years in the sport, helping new skaters and their parents is one of my favorite things to do. :hap85:

Regarding barefoot, it's just an individual skater preference, some like the feel of that more.

Like I said in my previous post, how her foot is shaped etc depends on the boot brand(s) she will be able to wear. I want to mention that certain boots in each brand fit different from others as well so that is difficult so be ready! I wore intermediate boots a very long time ago that were riedell (I have a high arch), but then had to switch to Jackson after that because their elite level boots didn't work for me.

It does sound like she needs a new boot that fits her and not used ones. Just please make sure she is fit correctly, because I would also hate to see you spend a good amount of money and then they don't work.

Good luck!

Do not assume that the pro shop at whatever rink your daughter skates at is really adept at fitting. My daughter skates at a large facility with elite skaters and coaches. There is a large pro shop there, and, yes they have figure skates on display, and they "fit" them, but they know absolutely nothing about what a figure skater needs. They will measure feet and hand you a box.

Now, the old rickety rink up the freeway has a tiny box of a pro shop, but one of the best fitters in the area that will help you find the best fit for your feet, heat mold the boots, punch them out wherever it's necessary, will continue to do that as long as you have the skates, take you out on the ice to get the blade mount right and make sure the sharpening is right for your skill level. All for the same $$$ as you would spend at the first place. There is no way to save money and get what a skater really needs in this sport, none.

Definitely ask the coaches and other skate parents (those who's skaters are really good, we're nice, we want to help!) where to go, they will tell you where to find the best fitting and service. We don't trust our skaters with anyone but the best we can find, and sometimes that means a short (or long) trip for the service.

As suggested above re Jackson, the Elle skate is the only place to start in the Jackson line, others below aren't that much less, and the Elle is a great, comfortable boot. I know nothing about Riedells, since my skater tried one on for 30 seconds and said NOPE!. Everyone's different though and they may be perfect for yours. Mine is 11 and is now in her 7th (soon to be 8th) pair of Jacksons. And yes, they cost a lot of money, but if she's in them as many hours a week as you indicated, you need a good pair that is fit for her.

Welcome, and good luck.

Sibelius said:

Do not assume that the pro shop at whatever rink your daughter skates at is really adept at fitting. My daughter skates at a large facility with elite skaters and coaches. There is a large pro shop there, and, yes they have figure skates on display, and they "fit" them, but they know absolutely nothing about what a figure skater needs. They will measure feet and hand you a box.

Now, the old rickety rink up the freeway has a tiny box of a pro shop, but one of the best fitters in the area that will help you find the best fit for your feet, heat mold the boots, punch them out wherever it's necessary, will continue to do that as long as you have the skates, take you out on the ice to get the blade mount right and make sure the sharpening is right for your skill level. All for the same $$$ as you would spend at the first place. There is no way to save money and get what a skater really needs in this sport, none.

Definitely ask the coaches and other skate parents (those who's skaters are really good, we're nice, we want to help!) where to go, they will tell you where to find the best fitting and service. We don't trust our skaters with anyone but the best we can find, and sometimes that means a short (or long) trip for the service.

As suggested above re Jackson, the Elle skate is the only place to start in the Jackson line, others below aren't that much less, and the Elle is a great, comfortable boot. I know nothing about Riedells, since my skater tried one on for 30 seconds and said NOPE!. Everyone's different though and they may be perfect for yours. Mine is 11 and is now in her 7th (soon to be 8th) pair of Jacksons. And yes, they cost a lot of money, but if she's in them as many hours a week as you indicated, you need a good pair that is fit for her.

Welcome, and good luck.

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:agree:

When my daughter got her new Jackson Artiste, she complained that her feet felt numb after maybe 5 minutes on ice. The sizing was correct, and she also confirmed that the numbness was not due to the feet being squeezed. The coach told us it was normal when breaking in new boots, and suggested use a hair blow dryer each time before putting on the skates. We did that, and it did help. The numbing issue went away about 2 weeks and we don't need the dryer anymore. I know you might have different problem as pointed out by other posters. But you can give it a try.

Also I am not sure if you want to get Elle for your daughter now. The Elle seems to be a lot stiffer than the Mystique or the Artiste. IMO, if she is still in basics, she should be fine with her Mystique.

Sibelius said:

Do not assume that the pro shop at whatever rink your daughter skates at is really adept at fitting. My daughter skates at a large facility with elite skaters and coaches. There is a large pro shop there, and, yes they have figure skates on display, and they "fit" them, but they know absolutely nothing about what a figure skater needs. They will measure feet and hand you a box.

Now, the old rickety rink up the freeway has a tiny box of a pro shop, but one of the best fitters in the area that will help you find the best fit for your feet, heat mold the boots, punch them out wherever it's necessary, will continue to do that as long as you have the skates, take you out on the ice to get the blade mount right and make sure the sharpening is right for your skill level. All for the same $$$ as you would spend at the first place. There is no way to save money and get what a skater really needs in this sport, none.

Definitely ask the coaches and other skate parents (those who's skaters are really good, we're nice, we want to help!) where to go, they will tell you where to find the best fitting and service. We don't trust our skaters with anyone but the best we can find, and sometimes that means a short (or long) trip for the service.

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All very true, especially the bold. Sadly, trying to cut corners financially will only cost more in the long run, but however much it costs is so worth it to a passionate skater if you can afford it.

Ykai said:

When my daughter got her new Jackson Artiste, she complained that her feet felt numb after maybe 5 minutes on ice. The sizing was correct, and she also confirmed that the numbness was not due to the feet being squeezed. The coach told us it was normal when breaking in new boots, and suggested use a hair blow dryer each time before putting on the skates. We did that, and it did help. The numbing issue went away about 2 weeks and we don't need the dryer anymore. I know you might have different problem as pointed out by other posters. But you can give it a try.

Also I am not sure if you want to get Elle for your daughter now. The Elle seems to be a lot stiffer than the Mystique or the Artiste. IMO, if she is still in basics, she should be fine with her Mystique.

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The problem with the Artiste (mine had one, actually two since the hook broke and Jackson sent a replacement. We still have it in the original plastic/box because we had to get her a skate while the warranty issue was being worked on) is that they are not heat moldable for fit. The Elle is a much better boot and not that much stiffer than the Artiste or Mystique. And the blade is superior. But yes, try them all and see which one gives proper support and knee bend. If the Elle is too much the Artiste is a good basic beginner "kit". And the plastic sole helps young skaters get used to caring for the boot without risking a rotting sole. Of course now the Elle comes with the Fusion plastic sole as well, ours was original leather. I think the Artiste took mine through loop and flip before Lutz in her Elle.

I hope someone can chime in on the equivalent Riedell models.

I just read the maintenance instruction that came with the Artiste. It states that never use a hair dryer or put your boots near a heating register. Sorry, but the hair dryer method I mentioned before might not be a good idea.

I can finally chime in with some advice, only because I've made some mistakes already. LOL

Both my skaters have ended up in Jacksons for the time being, and only used Reidell for their first skates but I can add a few words to the good advice above. Do be sure to check into her insoles. They count for a lot. Maybe also ask again what part of her foot is hurting. Could the bottom of her feet mean her arch? If so maybe invest in a different insole? My skaters both use a heat moldable insole.

Also, look into how her skates are tied. I just relinquished that job to my younger skater and had to really keep tabs on my older one for a while till I was convinced they were doing it right. If your daughters foot isn't properly seated at the heel(pulled back into the heel and snug) or the skates are laced too tight in another spot like over her arch, her feet can move and/or be uncomfortable in the skate. Not all heel movement ends up as blisters. My older skater started complaining about the bottoms of her feet(forefoot) once her skates were worn out and no longer keeping her foot/heel locked in place. Jackson's page has some videos about tying skates as well as "skater's landing" I believe.

It's amazing what a tiny change can do. Just search my posts and you'll see how much my skater struggled with her skates. Also important to think about is that time she spends on the ice is costing money too. My younger skater struggled in lessons on expensive ice time fighting her skates and making little progress. So her dad and I bit the bullet and bought her new skates after only a few months in a new pair. It stung, but everyone breathed a sigh of relief when it solved her issues and she started improving again. So if you need to make an investment in the right equipment for her well being it'll actually save you money. LOL. At least my DH was convinced by that argument.

Good luck, hope you both enjoy skating!

Sibelius said:

The problem with the Artiste (mine had one, actually two since the hook broke and Jackson sent a replacement. We still have it in the original plastic/box because we had to get her a skate while the warranty issue was being worked on) is that they are not heat moldable for fit. The Elle is a much better boot and not that much stiffer than the Artiste or Mystique. And the blade is superior. But yes, try them all and see which one gives proper support and knee bend. If the Elle is too much the Artiste is a good basic beginner "kit". And the plastic sole helps young skaters get used to caring for the boot without risking a rotting sole. Of course now the Elle comes with the Fusion plastic sole as well, ours was original leather. I think the Artiste took mine through loop and flip before Lutz in her Elle.

I hope someone can chime in on the equivalent Riedell models.

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Thank you so much for the information. It is really helpful and educational for the parents. So far we are happy with the Artiste. It seemed that Jackson updated the design for the Artiste by adding a notch (I don't know what it is called officially) where the ankle of the boots meets the boot shaft, which helps the bend. They also have plenty of gel padding inside (heat moldable?). I don't know much about the blades. My naive question, how do you tell one blade is better than the other? Is there visual evidence or you need to skate on it to feel the difference? I skate myself and my skates are the very basic softskate by Jackson. The blades are visibly thinner than my daughter's Artiste. Sometimes I wonder maybe my edge would improve if I had better skates, lol.

We are probably upgrading to Elle next year, it is good to know they have plastic sole, easy for little ones to take care of.

Ykai said:

Thank you so much for the information. It is really helpful and educational for the parents. So far we are happy with the Artiste. It seemed that Jackson updated the design for the Artiste by adding a notch (I don't know what it is called officially) where the ankle of the boots meets the boot shaft, which helps the bend. They also have plenty of gel padding inside (heat moldable?). I don't know much about the blades. My naive question, how do you tell one blade is better than the other? Is there visual evidence or you need to skate on it to feel the difference? I skate myself and my skates are the very basic softskate by Jackson. The blades are visibly thinner than my daughter's Artiste. Sometimes I wonder maybe my edge would improve if I had better skates, lol.

We are probably upgrading to Elle next year, it is good to know they have plastic sole, easy for little ones to take care of.

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The Elle is the first model that is Heat Mold-able. The Artiste and the Mystique are not heat moldable.

Thanks for all the great comments. From asking around, it seems like our pro shop isn't as good a place for fitting as a shop a few hours away so we're planning to make a day trip to get her properly fitted and into a new boot.

Thanks for these suggestions! Can I ask what brand of insoles you use? We are fairly certain it's her arch that is bothering her. Even with a brand new boot, that might be good info to have.

Ykai said:

Thank you so much for the information. It is really helpful and educational for the parents. So far we are happy with the Artiste. It seemed that Jackson updated the design for the Artiste by adding a notch (I don't know what it is called officially) where the ankle of the boots meets the boot shaft, which helps the bend. They also have plenty of gel padding inside (heat moldable?). I don't know much about the blades. My naive question, how do you tell one blade is better than the other? Is there visual evidence or you need to skate on it to feel the difference? I skate myself and my skates are the very basic softskate by Jackson. The blades are visibly thinner than my daughter's Artiste. Sometimes I wonder maybe my edge would improve if I had better skates, lol.

We are probably upgrading to Elle next year, it is good to know they have plastic sole, easy for little ones to take care of.

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The Artiste is a really good basic skate, she'll be fine in them to start. The notch is just called a flex notch and it helps with knee bend and toe point. I'm not sure why the Artiste isn't heat moldable, it may have something to do with the PVC sole melting under a high temperature is my best guess. There's no gel in the boot, it's a memory foam and as far as I know all Jackson boots (Elle and above) have similar padding and are heat moldable.

Beginner blades (Ultima Mk IV on the Artiste, Mirage on the Elle) are made with lower quality carbon steel. Better (more $$$) blades are made with higher quality, high carbon steel that holds a sharpened edge longer and are more impervious to nicks, scratches and gouges, all of which create extra friction on the ice. One of the bigger advantages of the Elle over the Artiste is that it is much easier to change blades on the Elle. The particular PVC sole on the Artiste requires a very skilled tech to change the blade. The Fusion sole on the Elle is a differnet material and is much easier to move to a better blade when the time comes. We started with the stock Mirage, then moved to an Eclipse clone of the John Wilson Coronation Ace (standard intermediate freestyle blade). With the move to the better blade her edges, jumps and spins all improved immediately.

Your edges probably would improve with a better blade. You know they make the Artiste for women and men...

Sibelius said:

. I'm not sure why the Artiste isn't heat moldable, it may have something to do with the PVC sole melting under a high temperature is my best guess. There's no gel in the boot, it's a memory foam and as far as I know all Jackson boots (Elle and above) have similar padding and are heat moldable.

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In addition to being made of materials that can withstand baking, Jackson heat-moldable boots have a special thermoplastic (SURLYN) interfacial layer in the uppers. It is this layer that softens upon baking, molded, and then holds its shape upon cooling. This was Jackson's big breakthrough in boot design. There was a tech video on this, but I can't find anything on Jackson's revamped (new and improved?) website these days (probably still floating around YouTube, though).