Many people care about other's moral compass (quite often more than their own), but I think that mine works pretty well. And the presumption of innocence is an essential part of it.
Ashley Wagner assaulted by John Coughlin
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Many people care about other's moral compass (quite often more than their own), but I think that mine works pretty well. And the presumption of innocence is an essential part of it.
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What makes you conclude that pearly or anyone else in this thread is saying that “presumption of innocence” is a bad thing? I’m genuinely curious.
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Great video! Simple and to the point. If I could, I would make it a required video to watch in a classroom environment starting with teens with Q&A afterwards.
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I am incredibly horrified by users on this board describing what John Coughlin did as a "minor infraction". How about describing what he did as "sexual assault with the capacity to destroy another person's life"? It may be the case that some cases of sexual assault may be considered more heinous than others, but it does not take the way the fact that all sexual assault is heinous, and to suggest otherwise is reprehensible. Does the fact that Ashley Wagner did not experience the "worst" forms of sexual abuse, take away from the fact that she was a victim to a crime with potential ramifications for the remainder of her life? My goodness, I am done with this thread.
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Maybe this is going too far or too graphic. But to the people who believe this was not a big deal and similar to a pat on the back, imagine being asleep and waking up to someone penetrating your rear with their fingers. Wouldn’t that feel like a violation? Even if you weren’t penetrated but someone was touching your rear and planning penetration. That’s not okay and most people would be upset by this violation.
Even just waking up to an uninvited man being in your bed ... an “accident” if he had realized his mistake & left immediately ... but then became misdemeanor assault when he kissed her neck & put hands on her body ... and then progressed to a felony when he put his hands inside her pants.
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And just to add, innocent until proven guilty is for a court of law. Does that mean that journalists can never investigate and report on their investigations? Because everyone should just be assumed innocent so why bother with an investigation?
Journalism is how Weinstein was revealed to the public and held accountable. And there are standards for journalism (well they aren’t always followed these days). Ashley’s comments were verified by interviewing other people she told about the experience at the time. Coughlin would have been asked to comment if he were alive, but he’s not. And Ashley’s comments support multiple other people’s accounts of pattern of misbehavior. That doesn’t mean journalists can’t still attempt to investigate or examine potential systemic problems that allowed for misconduct. Because we just assume everyone is innocent until they are given a trial that does not mean we stop journalism.
Journalism is how Weinstein was revealed to the public and held accountable. And there are standards for journalism (well they aren’t always followed these days). Ashley’s comments were verified by interviewing other people she told about the experience at the time. Coughlin would have been asked to comment if he were alive, but he’s not. And Ashley’s comments support multiple other people’s accounts of pattern of misbehavior. That doesn’t mean journalists can’t still attempt to investigate or examine potential systemic problems that allowed for misconduct. Because we just assume everyone is innocent until they are given a trial that does not mean we stop journalism.
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Why not? It would set an example that you can and will not get away with such behaviour that dishonours your sport and a fellow sportsperson.
But it likely won't happen. USFS statutes probably have no clause or provisions for these kind of situations.
And Coughlin took his own life, so sort of escaped justice as delivered by trial before criminal court. Without a conviction and the statutes, USFS really has no legal grounds to strip a deceased sportsman from his honours.
Wether USFS might take a moral stance and wants to display a strong signal is another question, that would require a crime far more serious even, like homicide on a fellow sportsperson I think.
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You're way ahead of me, Tally. I have no idea, but I think it's commendable that Ashley got to them in February, AND that USFS followed up right away with several meetings with her about working for changes for safety and well-being .... and they have apparently implemented her speaking to groups of young skaters and parents right away, to excellent effect.
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Absolutely agree with you here.
It's important to raise awareness on the conditions of women even in the most evolved society in terms of gender equality. It is still difficult as a woman to have a voice and be believed. It's important to stop minimizing what women have to go through their entire lives (the first time I was harrased in the metro, I was 14...). It's important to say that this is not NORMAL and that we should not let this continue because "life is unfair" or "men can be raped too". The discussion, here, is Ashley's coming forward, and the way we answer as a society. So far, I fear things won't change.
So if here, we can change a mind or two and make them realize that we need to fight, men and women together, against these behaviors, then it's a win for me !
This. Apart from obviously needing some time to process and realise what's happening or consciously choosing not to resist, as not to provoke or to appease the assaulter, there's also the very real, biological response of involuntary freezing to such an attack:
https://obgyn.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/aogs.13174
I’m glad that Ashley had the courage to share her story, and I really hope she can help make a difference.
This thread ... some of the comments are seriously disgusting
. Posts not following guidelines in Nathan’s FF for example seem to be quickly deleted - but some disturbing and gross comments are still here ...
This thread ... some of the comments are seriously disgusting
. Posts not following guidelines in Nathan’s FF for example seem to be quickly deleted - but some disturbing and gross comments are still here ...
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I’m glad that Ashley had the courage to share her story, and I really hope she can help make a difference.
This thread ... some of the comments are seriously disgusting
Indeed. The staff was hoping that folks would be both mature and sensitive in their comments, discussions and debates. This thread will be closed until further notice.
For those who wish to express support for figure skaters who are victims of sexual assault, you may post in this thread.
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