Ashley Wagner assaulted by John Coughlin

Moxiejan said:

And this is exactly why minors at fed events need fed chaperones ... they obviously are too young to know that what feels “safe” is actually quite dangerous. This horrific story could have ended in another tragic way, with minor skaters hurt/killed in a car crash because a DUI driver tried to take them back to their hotel.

Click to expand...

But the fact of the matter is that that space SHOULD be safe. I don't think that having chaperones is the only answer - it's a bit like putting the onus on those "at risk" instead of on the abuser. What we need is a community and a society that ensures that this behaviour never happens no matter what or where, not one that just avoids being in the same space as this abusive behaviour.

And honestly, with regards to the DUI comment - we were all teenagers once and I don't think people should be blamed for enjoying themselves. If these people were just high school kids and not athletes would we really be talking about them being chaperoned for alcohol?

I cannot comprehend how Ashley must have felt when so many of her colleagues and friends supported and defended him...
She is incredibly brave to tell her story and I truly hope that lasting changes are made to this sport and she can move forward from her experiences.
Some of the comments I’ve read about her are disgusting and yet people wonder why it takes so long for people to disclose sexual assaults...

fzztsimmons said:

I cannot comprehend how Ashley must have felt when so many of her colleagues and friends supported and defended him...
She is incredibly brave to tell her story and I truly hope that lasting changes are made to this sport and she can move forward from her experiences.
Some of the comments I’ve read about her are disgusting and yet people wonder why it takes so long for people to disclose sexual assaults...

Click to expand...

You said exactly what I was going to. I know exactly how hard it is to speak up about abuse when you know you will come under attack for doing so. And that Ashley said she was spurred to action after watching Alysa Liu, a 13 year old child, win Nationals and be thrust into the spotlight speaks volumes about her character. Something terrible happened to her and she wants to work to make sure it doesn't happen to anyone else. I am proud of her.

This isn't easy. The comments not just on YouTube or Twitter or Sports.ru but also right here on GoldenSkate are proof that coming forward about sexual assault is an unbelievably difficult thing to do when there are people (including some of our own posters) who are disgustingly eager to tear you down. This is one of the reasons victims and survivors suffer in silence.

Frankly, I am incredibly disappointed by some of the comments here about this whole situation and have been since the news first broke many months ago. I hoped athletes coming forward would open some eyes but there are people who just want theirs to stay closed so they can continue being horribly, willfully ignorant and cruel. It makes me not want to come back to GoldenSkate if that's the level of discourse one can expect.

As an Eastern European myself I find the abovementioned mentality appalling and I am far from alone in that.

It's awful that it happened to Ashley but it's admirable that she found the courage to speak up. Hopefully young athletes will be more protected in the future.

Gullygirl84 said:

Or people who will dismiss it with "well, it wasn't rape". "He stopped when she asked". "He had too much to drink and didn't know what he was doing". I also wonder how many other people he did this too, but also, it's a story that is familiar to far too many of us.

Click to expand...

And they are wrong. It doesn’t have to be rape to be sexual assault. If he had been drinking, it just lowered his inhibitions to do what he wanted to do. It doesn’t excuse it.

jenaj said:

And they are wrong. It doesn’t have to be rape to be sexual assault. If he had been drinking, it just lowered his inhibitions to do what he wanted to do. It doesn’t excuse it.

Click to expand...

Exactly.

To clarify, I mean that the situation seems like something that was particularly heightened due to conditions in the figure skating community, as Ashley discussed, and also something that a lot of women who are not part of the figure skating community can relate to. I really feel for Ashley, I keep thinking of all of the time Ice Network had John interviewing skaters after performances. I know that she said that she didn't really know how to feel about him over the years, and I think that it's important that she highlighted that he had a reputation as a nice guy. Anyone who thinks that speaking out is easy is living on a different planet.

DenissVFan said:

As an Eastern European myself I find the abovementioned mentality appalling and I am far from alone in that.

Click to expand...

+1

To be frank parties with huge amount of alcohol and young people rarely provide anything good for this world.

ruga said:

That website is insanely toxic and I doubt it represents the majority of Russians (at least I hope so).

Click to expand...

OT, but since this website is often referenced here, I went to check it not too long ago.
I read a few blogs there and there are quite a few interesting and entertaining ones, that are not toxic or hateful at all, on contrary very neutral to skaters, post a lot of interesting information and some very humorous (in a kind way) takes on competitions and skaters.
Comments seem not to be moderated in general, and I assume sexual assault news are posted to a wider audience than skating fans, hence, there's a space for some toxic misogyny to pour out from possibly fans of other sports (I assume?).
not to claim anything here as I didn't have much experience with this website, I feel like it has some good blogs (and good people?) there as well.

Samkrut, Flanker, guys, I usually agree with your points, but I have to disagree here.
I have to say, if a lady feels uncomfortable and the man made her feel uncomfortable with touching/kissing, it is an assault.
I cannot stand an idea of some dude doing something to my teen niece in the middle of the night, little girls are vulnerable and I fear for her experiencing anything similar, hence I feel very sorry for Ashley to having to go through this.
Whether she is a credible source or not, it's not up to us to judge.
There've been multiple complains raised about John's behavior, including minors, Ashley is one of them (not minors, but complaints).
If it was just one person, it could be up to debate, there are multiple, which leaves little room for doubting whether John actually had some dangerous patterns in his behavior.

Ashley would not surge to popularity because of this, like Namiotka didnot, they will get no benefit of sharing their stories, but will probably feel bad reliving those experiences.

While to some what he did might seem not as bad, since he stopped when Ashley asked, he shouldn't have allowed himself in her bed in the first place, that's not right.
He might have been drunk/accidentally mistaken her for someone else, it can be possible. It would've been a whole different story, had John not had the string of allegations against him.
Since he does, all of the cases that will come into light will be viewed differently. Whether or not he actually intended to assault Ashley, he did make her feel very uncomfortable, and taking into account a bigger picture, it seems rather intentional.

Mawwerg said:

To be frank parties with huge amount of alcohol and young people rarely provide anything good for this world.

Click to expand...

And nowadays there are more subtle ways, like spiking the soft drinks of any girl or woman with a rape drug. At every festival people are warned about bringing in, buying on site or using any substance or food/drink that has been opened, but at every festival it still happens.

Young people want to try what it is like to be like an adult, to explore and breach their boundaries, that's only natural. But there are always people waiting for the chance to take advantage.

nussnacker said:

OT, but since this website is often referenced here, I went to check it not too long ago.
I read a few blogs there and there are quite a few interesting and entertaining ones, that are not toxic or hateful at all, on contrary very neutral to skaters, post a lot of interesting information and some very humorous (in a kind way) takes on competitions and skaters.
Comments seem not to be moderated in general, and I assume sexual assault news are posted to a wider audience than skating fans, hence, there's a space for some toxic misogyny to pour out from possibly fans of other sports (I assume?).
not to claim anything here as I didn't have much experience with this website, I feel like it has some good blogs (and good people?) there as well.

Click to expand...

I probably didn't make myself clear. I forgot to mention that I meant only comments under their articles. Many of them are hateful, often untrue, and these receive a lot of upvotes. However, I read their articles to get news about Russian skaters and their blogs as well (Ternov posted his skating skills and jumps analysis there which I enjoy very much, there are other interesting things as well). But I recommend avoiding comments under them.

Guys.. Youtube, twitter and other places may have toxic comments but if you discuss their negativity here you are just spreading it around. Let this be a place where we can discuss this complicated issue like adults.


It is a complicated issue. Here in Canada there is a newish movement about consent. As in seeking affirmative consent. A person who is sleeping or passed our drunk is not giving consent to be touched. The fact that you fell asleep somewhere other than behind the locked doors of your house does not give someone the right to come and molest you in your sleep.

I think the most interesting thing about what Ashley said is about how everyone liked him. This is part of the problem. If the person who abused you is well liked or respected coming forward, especially as a teenager, is nearly impossible. You know you will not be believed. There needs to be more oversight and more concern shown for young people who are placed in the care of adults.

flanker said:

For me it is ghorrigble to make allegations against someone who can't defend himself. You may refuse samkrut's words about "russian mentality", but I can saythat people here in the middle and eastern Europe know very well what does it mean being sentenced without eveidence/on the basic of false evidence. Therefore we know that presumption of innocence and proper legal process are not formalities but essential elements of the society. Public lynch based on someone's unverified claim is definitely not right.

Click to expand...

I am sorry, but I am also from the middle of Europe and that's definitely not what everyone here thinks!!!! He can't defend himself because HE chose to commit suicide. That was his decision and no one else's. I cannot understand that people can read such an article and then choose to defend someone who hurt another person like this. I am glad that in my part of "middle Europe" opinions like yours are definitely the minority!

Some of these comments here are gross.

As a sexual assault survivor myself, can I please implore everyone not to speculate on whether or not what Ashley experienced was actually assault? One of the most challenging parts of having this sort of terrible experience is the fear that you won't be believed, or even that you'll be blamed, if you share your story with someone. I recognize everyone's right to believe what they will, regardless of whether or not I agree, but I know I'd appreciate it if speculation was kept out of the conversation.

Mawwerg said:

To be frank parties with huge amount of alcohol and young people rarely provide anything good for this world.

Click to expand...

Even when I was a teenager, party culture rubbed me the wrong way. And it's really hard to avoid because most media about teenagers has it. Even when media shows the pitfalls, teenagers and young adults still want to have those experiences and I don't understand why when so much can go wrong. Minors definitely need to have more supervision by responsible adults. It won't completely solve the issue, but it'll help. I think there also needs to be more education about consent.

Ashley has the right to tell her side of the story. John C. would have the right to tell his side of the story if he were here. If he was charged he would have the right to defend himself.

Being drunk does not negate being sexually assaulted. When I was in university we had a "no girl left behind" policy (i.e. if one girl was super drunk we made sure she got back to her dorm room) but I'm sure this is not the norm. I think at the time I was at school it was sort of considered the cross you had to bare that the onus for consent was on you as in if you didn't say no forcefully and sometimes with physical force behind it then you consented. However this never was the line of demarcation between sexual assault and consent. The line was and always should have been you agreeing to sexual contact with a spoken verbal affirmative. Sorry if people think that takes them out of the moment but suck it up buttercup.

Of course it’s logical to believe Ashley was not only drunk but high as well, thus making her experience invalid and unreliable.

It makes perfect sense to continue to uphold what an upstanding gentleman Coughlin was. What is it now 4-5 different women/girls accusing him of unwanted sexual contact?

But of course he is unable to defend himself (for reasons beyond his control...) against these accusations so we should just ask the victims to walk away quietly and stop causing a fuss.

Such a logical argument when you look at it this way.

**SARCASM** I just love how assault victims are constantly told that their story isn't enough, that it can't be believed unless there were ten witnesses and a video and charges were brought and someone was convicted. As if predators don't know that this is the common attitude and take advantage of it every day. As if victims don't already feel violated and less capable of trust than ever before.

Ashley and the others who came forward are brave to face the backlash and to air their vulnerabilities publicly in hopes of helping others. And THERE WERE OTHERS. This is not "one story" and "one account," this is just one in a long string of stories establishing a pattern of abuse from that man. That he isn't here to defend himself is no one's choice but his own.