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Thread: Ashley Wagner assaulted by John Coughlin

  1. #81
    Moonbear power Lunalovesskating's Avatar
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    From twitter
    Okay, so at the point when Bridget Namiotka came forward publicly, and USFSA didn’t say anything, Ashley Wagner had already told them what happened to her?
    They let people call her mentally unstable and all that [...], and didn’t say, “We’ve had other credible allegations” or...anything? None of that?
    I think this is a very important point. The USFSA has failed so many skaters the past few months.

  2. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by vesperalvioletta View Post
    As a sexual assault survivor myself, can I please implore everyone not to speculate on whether or not what Ashley experienced was actually assault? One of the most challenging parts of having this sort of terrible experience is the fear that you won't be believed, or even that you'll be blamed, if you share your story with someone. I recognize everyone's right to believe what they will, regardless of whether or not I agree, but I know I'd appreciate it if speculation was kept out of the conversation.


  3. #83
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    sarakimm, it's ridiculous to accuse me of "reflexive defending of him", since I was his loudest critic on this board, when first allegations surfaced. Look up my posts. LOL

    That being said, while I fully believe Michael Jackson's accusers, I also believe he was a basically (censored, starts with R) developmentally challenged child in a man's body, whose mind was broken early on by his ambitious caretakers.

    I'm not saying this case is same magnitude at all (I don't believe it). But after reading Ashley's account, where she specifically points out her own social retardation at 17, I wonder, just how "adult" and well-adjusted these young athletes are?

    Depending on parenting, some are pretty well-rounded. But plenty of others, not so much.

    My point is kids need to be developed, socially and intellectually (instead of hormonal time-bombs who learn to skate very well but little else), into fully socially adjusted adults, who'd know how to protect themselves, and how not to infringe on others.

  4. #84
    Bona Fide Member skateluvr's Avatar
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    The larger culture in the USA and the world is sexualizing young girls. The media, movies, tv push girls to look hot ie sexy and they push all the kids to become sexually active earlier. Combine this with a sport that throws teen girls into social situations and rink type social groups and you have people acting inappropriately. I found it sad that John thought his advances here were welcomed and also that Ashley was afraid at 17 to speak up. Not criticism but it shows how much skating norms and acceptance meant. She was confused.

    children who get destroyed are hurt by relatives as little ones. Ashley was at least old enough to process this and finally tell him to stop. I would still pray for his soul because suicide is very serious and the whole thing is very sad. Statistically, John may have been a victim before he became a predator. God bless any and all who are triggered or upset by these threads. ��

  5. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rissa View Post
    My reply to samkrut and flanker was deleted? Isn't it great.
    It's your language. You are welcome to debate, but there is no need to circumvent the the language censor to do so.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientpeas View Post
    The problem is what if those "responsible adults" are actually the problem? Canada has a very famous case involving hockey player Sheldon Kennedy by Graham James. When Sheldon very bravely came forward with his story Theoren Fleury said it never happened (they were on the same jr. team) and it wasn't until years later that he admitted he was abused too. So much shame and guilt are often wrapped up in these cases. It takes incredible braveness to come forward.

    We constantly allow ourselves to be distracted from the issue: was it the alcohol, was it the drugs, was her skirt to short, was she too flirtatious, was she asking for it. It is smoke and mirrors really. Consent is consent. It is not complicated. It only becomes complicated when one person feels entitled to take from another person what they have not offered freely and willingly.
    Just look at Finding Neverland documentary, really I want the world to watch it so parents and kids learn that you can put your full confidence on a person, no matter how good they are or act.

    Must respect to Ashley and all the other women that have come forward. Hope steps are taken to protect skates in social and competitive situations.

  7. #87
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    Oh, and by the way, the systems and protocols need to be changed for precisely this reason. These kids need to be educated about sexual harassment, both how to protect themselves, and how not to do it.

    It's criminal negligence, IMHO, to lock kids in narrow cages of "sport training", and let them fend for themselves in all other important matters of life.

  8. #88
    Tripping on the Podium StephenGfan's Avatar
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    As a survivor of sexual assualt, I am deeply repulsed by some of the comments in this thread as well as the comment made by Alexa.k in support of ashley on ashley's instagram when she also liked chris.k's tweet saying the victims were lying.

  9. #89
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    There’s no reason for me to believe Coughlin did anything bad. Even with Ashley’s story he stopped when she asked.

  10. #90
    Tripping on the Podium StephenGfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    There’s no reason for me to believe Coughlin did anything bad. Even with Ashley’s story he stopped when she asked.


    This is exactly why no one takes people on this site seriously sometimes. He still touched her as a grown man when she was a minor, it's still wrong.

  11. #91
    Medalist macy's Avatar
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    word of advice to all, stay faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar away from youtube

  12. #92
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    I remember the threads on Golden Skate, and the moderators themselves closed threads to help protect John Coughlin's reputation and "stop speculation." What of the 3 girls and women? No thought. Shame on the moderation team.

    The truth is, if you're a nobody, a not-famous girl, you will not be believed, if you accuse a famous man. The Safesport investigation was halted after John's suicide. No one thought finding the truth or preventing this in the future was important. And what was the aftermath?

    - people scoffing at your accusations because you're a nobody -- did you get 5th at World championships? Did you work as ambassador for John Wilson blades? Did you hold skating workshops with the great Gracie Gold? No, so shut up.
    - Hundreds of donations, even from other well-known skaters for John's funeral -- they don't stand with you
    - Other elite skaters know who you are, and the best effort they can make is "give you a hug" in sympathy, but not actually speaking out for your credibility
    - Professional Skating Assocation making a public statement that they stand with the accused coaches

    Will a public accusation from a famous person, a somebody, change the situation? Who knows? We'll see.

  13. #93
    Rinkside
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    Kudos for Ashley for coming forward. I always knew there was more to this story.

    Interesting off topic...ESPNW just posted a very long article regarding a well know track and field coach who was sexually abusing his students. (I’m using my phone so I can’t post the link)

    The USOC and all sport governing bodies really need to start doing something about this.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    There’s no reason for me to believe Coughlin did anything bad. Even with Ashley’s story he stopped when she asked.
    Explain why she had to ask him to stop, when she never asked or consented to him starting??

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by StephenGfan View Post



    This is exactly why no one takes people on this site seriously sometimes. He still touched her as a grown man when she was a minor, it's still wrong.
    It's still wrong, but there're nuances and shades. This was not rape, this was not forcible assault, and there might have been some exculpatory circumstances as to the perpetrator's state of mind.

    Still very wrong, but not on the same level as Weinsteins, Allens and Epsteins of the world.

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by StephenGfan View Post
    As a survivor of sexual assualt, I am deeply repulsed by some of the comments in this thread as well as the comment made by Alexa.k in support of ashley on ashley's instagram when she also liked chris.k's tweet saying the victims were lying.
    Ok, I´m gonna get fire for this one, but here it goes.

    I have close male friends and 2 brothers. If someone, anyone, were to accuse my close friends, that I know since I was 7yo, or brothers of sexual assault my first reaction would be to believe my friends and brothers, not the accusers. You can´t ask a person to drop love and trust for people in a minute, and people can change their mind as they receive evidence.

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casual View Post
    It's still wrong, but there're nuances and shades. This was not rape, this was not forcible assault, and there might have been some exculpatory circumstances as to the perpetrator's state of mind.

    Still very wrong, but not on the same level as Weinsteins, Allens and Epsteins of the world.
    This was forcible assault, he was on top of her with his hands down her pants without consent.

    I don’t know how much more clear that can be, it may not have been “violent” but it was forced.

  18. #98
    GS Supporter LiamForeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowflake View Post
    Ashley
    Yes, her story is beyond tragic because it’s way too common.
    Beyond tragic? Coughlin came on to her, she told him to stop and he did. This kind of thing has happened more times to me than I can remember. In fact, in pretty much the exact wording. First you try to pretend you're sound asleep thinking he'll get the message. Then change your position moving away from him, and when that doesn't work you just say "Will you just stop?? I'm trying to sleep!" End of story. Yes, Coughlin is a creepster, no one is doubting her story and this hopefully help Coughlin's accusers emotionally. And I think it's good that Ashley spoke her truth after seeing young Alysa Liu winning Nationals because let's face it, Alysa is a YOUNG 13 who seems to be extremely sheltered. But to extol Ashley for being so brave just for saying a guy came on to her and stopped when she told him stop to me at least kind of makes me roll my eyes. I'm not rolling my eyes at Ashley, everyone has their truth and feelings, but I'm not really getting 'beyond tragic' like others are saying. But Ashley helped start a dialogue about drinking at parties and the potential risks of doing so. So, good for Ashley for doing that.

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    There’s no reason for me to believe Coughlin did anything bad. Even with Ashley’s story he stopped when she asked.
    Didn’t do anything “bad”? OK, ask yourself this: If a friend/relative crawled into your bed while you were asleep, put his hands inside your pants & then touched genital areas, would you consider that to be “bad”?

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziotic View Post
    Explain why she had to ask him to stop, when she never asked or consented to him starting??
    Right John started groping Ashley when she was sleeping in bed. Or when he thought she was sleeping. "Luckily" she was just very tired and lying still, and had the means to say "no."

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