Ilia Klimkin - how should successful federations stay successful? | Golden Skate

Ilia Klimkin - how should successful federations stay successful?

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
Part I: http://frozenintime.tk/the-greatest-russian-figure-skater-that-never-was-part-i/
Part II: http://frozenintime.tk/ilia-klimkin-the-greatest-russian-skater-that-never-was-part-ii/
Part III: http://frozenintime.tk/ilia-klimkin-the-greatest-russian-skater-that-never-was-part-iii/

The above series of articles desribes the career and history of Ilia Klimkin, a wonderful skater whose particular strengths were inadequately rewarded by the judging rules of his day. He was a wonderful, artistic, musical performer, who utilized innovative moves, transitions, and appealing choreography. He also had great jumps, but his competitive nerves were not the best.

Klimkin had a second big problem. He was the third or fourth best skater in Russia at a time when the two best skaters in the world, Plushenko and Yagudin, also skated for Russia. His rival for the third spot, Alexander Abt, was also a wonderful skater. He arguably did not get the support that a skater of his caliber would have gotten in any other country at that time.

Looking back, the embarrassment of rich talents in men's skating in Russia is not now there. What happened? What should have happened to continue the supply of wonderful men's skaters there?

I would like to ask for your thoughts.

Klimkin's case is not unique. The USA had a similar problem in the days of Kwan and Cohen. And now, although we have great men, our ladies program is only mediocre.

It would be to the benefit of skating fans as a whole if we could shed some light on this.

Meanwhile, enjoy some Ilia Klimkin performances from this playlist:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mc_oeLQybY&list=PLB2dU9VBzV4_wfpFnCQtyXJWlJtELsu_b
 
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dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
1997 Russian Nationals SP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mc_oeLQybY&list=PLB2dU9VBzV4_wfpFnCQtyXJWlJtELsu_b&index=1

1997 Russian Nationals FS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTXpym2SU3c&list=PLB2dU9VBzV4_wfpFnCQtyXJWlJtELsu_b&index=2

1999 Russian Nationals SP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkMbTGUu7DE&list=PLB2dU9VBzV4_wfpFnCQtyXJWlJtELsu_b&index=3

1999 Russian Nationals FS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_mGBcKgg-8&list=PLB2dU9VBzV4_wfpFnCQtyXJWlJtELsu_b&index=4

1999 NHK FS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T746wFOKplA&list=PLB2dU9VBzV4_wfpFnCQtyXJWlJtELsu_b&index=5

2000 Junior World Championship FS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bweCHXu7pIA&list=PLB2dU9VBzV4_wfpFnCQtyXJWlJtELsu_b&index=7

2000 NHK SP
https://youtu.be/SyJsgbp7lyk?list=PLB2dU9VBzV4_wfpFnCQtyXJWlJtELsu_b&t=2485

2000 NHK FS
https://youtu.be/gF_C0GoT4Wk?list=PLB2dU9VBzV4_wfpFnCQtyXJWlJtELsu_b&t=1809

2000/01 GPF SP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3h6V8a8HUIk&list=PLB2dU9VBzV4_wfpFnCQtyXJWlJtELsu_b&index=10

2000/01 GPF FS1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H16GRE52Zvw&list=PLB2dU9VBzV4_wfpFnCQtyXJWlJtELsu_b&index=11

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5a8MDtfn8M&list=PLB2dU9VBzV4_wfpFnCQtyXJWlJtELsu_b&index=12

2000/01 GPF FS2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T68CSsvZSqg&list=PLB2dU9VBzV4_wfpFnCQtyXJWlJtELsu_b&index=13

2001 Skate America SP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_r0yh6_cHCU&list=PLB2dU9VBzV4_wfpFnCQtyXJWlJtELsu_b&index=14

2001 Cup of Russia FS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoffyrAD3U8&list=PLB2dU9VBzV4_wfpFnCQtyXJWlJtELsu_b&index=15

ILIA KLIMKIN 2001 Cup of Russia Notre-Dame de Paris
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GI0yS1gZrCs&list=PLB2dU9VBzV4_wfpFnCQtyXJWlJtELsu_b&index=16

2002 Russian Nationals FS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TI_neaD4IA&list=PLB2dU9VBzV4_wfpFnCQtyXJWlJtELsu_b&index=17
 
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yelyoh

Medalist
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
Kilmkin was one of my favorites skaters at the time and of all the Russian men I enjoyed his skating most.
 

WeakAnkles

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
He has some wonderfully wacky spins, especially with the free leg turned out. Something you don't see the men doing very often and I loved it.

The costumes however. Let's just say if one follows the saying, Go Big Or Go Home, he's NEVER leaving the rink...

:laugh:
 

Harriet

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 23, 2017
Country
Australia
What should have happened to continue the supply of wonderful men's skaters there?

The same as what should have happened to ensure that the Windies remained world-beaters from the 1980s till now and the Diamonds never lost a World Championship - nothing whatsoever. Teams change over time, athletes of varying skill arise and retire, interest levels shift, and a team that once won everything 'suddenly' struggles to make the finals. Nobody can win everything till the end of time. The only thing you can do is tamp down the professional and/or national ego, live with it and make the most of what you've got in any given era. If your athlete selection pool is big enough and anthropogenic climate change doesn't kill us all before then, another strong contender or several will come along eventually.

Or you can be like the Australian cricket team and get so wedded to the idea that you're entitled to win everything just for showing up that you descend into cheating when you can't win honestly, and earn the loathing of the entire sporting community while you're at it, but that's really not recommended.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
I was thinking more along the lines of perhaps a rule that a federation could only keep three skaters from going off to skate for another country at one time. A Klimkin could then have skated for another country without being held up more than one year by his federation.

But I fear what did for ladies skating here and men's skating in Russia is that Plushenko and Kwan were too dominant too long. Talented kids picked another area of skating (dance, pairs) or went and played a different sport entirely.

In the US, the whole sport lost popularity. I think we are just lucky to have good men right now.

It is more puzzling in Russia where the other three disciplines are so good, and the whole sport is so popular. Why are their men struggling?
 

QueenOfTheRoad

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 21, 2017
Country
Germany
I hear a lot that about Kwan and Plushenko and i disagree. USA had loads of promising juniors, which for a reason or other didn't fulfill their promise at senior level.

For the Russian boys there were also some very talented men after Plushenko. I see more the problem with the Russian federation, which was too impatient and expected for every young man to deliver from the first senior year medals instead to help them to stabilize and grow up. Kovtun for example got more chances, but he was loaded too early with expectation of TAT and co, instead of being allowed to grow up. Instead of cleaning up his jumping technique, he was pushed to do more quads. This ruined him greatly. Same big expectation were difficult for Gachinski to keep to and what a wonderful skater he was! The federation should adapt their strategy, but as long they think like TAT and Yagudin, i have no hope.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Then, too, no matter what you do you can't predict when an individual genius will come along (or won't). Yuna Kim and Javier Fernandez -- who would have imagined?
 

Alexz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Country
United-States
great read! very interesting. threads like this is why I like this forum and still lurking on here.
 

DSQ

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 14, 2018
Country
United-Kingdom
The same as what should have happened to ensure that the Windies remained world-beaters from the 1980s till now [...]

;—;

Back on topic, I’m not sure there’s anything you can do. Just look at Football in England. Hundreds of millions of pounds of government funding, world class grassroots talent scouting at every level of school and it’s the most popular sport in the country by a country mile. If you have even a glimmer of talent you have the opportunity and support in 80% (perhaps even 90%) of cases to attempt to play more football and start on your career path. Yet you couldn’t say that the English football team is any closer to that World Cup.

Even if figure skating had that level of support sometimes talent just isn’t there. The best thing a federation can do is dial down the pressure on their charges and just keep an eye on their training schedule to make sure they’re on track to always improving, even if these improvements only move them from 11th to 10th and the WC.
 

ladyjane

Medalist
Joined
Jun 26, 2012
Country
Netherlands
What an interesting interview. I remember that short programme at European's in 2004 very well (those Camel spins!) and it was very impressive. The sad thing is that the only other things I remember is that his first coach died, and that he got injured. I don't recall other programmes, although I must have seen them at the time. I am however quite shocked that a Federation can become so arrogant, that talent is squandered away. I shouldn't be, it's not as if the Russian federation is the only one, but I still am. Reading about the necessary surgery and what happened in two cases is very painful to read about, and seems so unfair. Although it is never the Klimkin himself who says such a thing, he is actually the real hero. If this was a fictional account about the times and troubles of a skater, his story would definitely be seen as one of immense courage, as well as a story about destiny not favouring the kind and humble. Which is just sad, very sad.

I don't know much about how the US federation works, nor if there are similar examples (although of course I know all about Kwan, Lipinski, Cohen, Hughes, Meisner, etc.). Perhaps there are, although the system of course works in a very different way.

But for me, this wonderful guy will always remain a hero now!
 

Scott512

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2014
Well said Jane. I agree with every word.

I'm so sorry Ilia Klimkin had such a rough early life and a career that didn't pan out for how talented he was. I worry about the same thing happening to Anastasia Gubanova. Figure skating is a very brutal sport both mentally and physically for the performers. These figure skating athletes are tougher than we will ever know.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
I always think of Angela Nikidinov as the US parallel to Ilia Klimkin. Always behind Kwan, lost her coach to cancer, and finally ended her career in the auto crash from the airport to US Nationals 2005. She was injured, and her mother died.
 

Scott512

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2014
I always think of Angela Nikidinov as the US parallel to Ilia Klimkin. Always behind Kwan, lost her coach to cancer, and finally ended her career in the auto crash from the airport to US Nationals 2005. She was injured, and her mother died.

That's a very good analogy Doris. I like Angela too but she was hit with so much misfortune in her career and life just like Ilia. Sad.
 
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