Coaching: Clean break or co-coaching? | Golden Skate

Coaching: Clean break or co-coaching?

Sunshine247

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 17, 2018
I'd love to hear opinions on how to handle a tricky situation. My two skaters started with a coach through the rink management/LTS after summer vacation was going to put them behind. They were in Basic 5. We got lucky with an excellent coach. Fast forward and my one skater is consistently landing an axel and the other is close. The problem is, we probably have outgrown her abilities even though we all love working with her. My one skater has really become passionate and loves competing. The beginning of school means setting up a schedule and now is the best time to make arrangements and changes.

I've thought about a switch for a while now, but its hard to manage it. Our rink has a great set of coaches who often team up or share students. Which is part of the issue. It's all kind of loosey goosey with primary coaches and supplemental coaches and students making their own arrangements. Not clearly defined enough for my comfort. And a recipe for disaster IMO. Nowhere near the situation the USFSA sets up in their guidelines for switching coaches. But maybe more of a norm elsewhere?

Our coach has actually set up sessions with other coaches for my skaters to work on specific skills, but has maintained the primary coaching responsibility and relationship. Previously we have always scheduled supplemental coaching through her. Lately she has been less likely to recommend my skaters work with others and it might be because she feels insecure about our changing? Over the summer a lot of coaches offered extra time(things got very flexible) and after letting my coach know, I did schedule one or two supplemental sessions. I tried to remain respectful and mostly did it for convenience since it was a lot to manage our schedules and theirs. Other skaters parents seem to schedule through individual coaches on their own throughout the whole year. Thus the whole "supplemental student" category. Emails go out with openings and parents schedule as they please. I'm not actually super comfortable with that, since it blurs the lines and definitely will lead to trouble soon. I fear it'll be us who causes a rift. So I could use some advice.

I am looking at scheduling for the new school year (and next season) so it is only fair that I come to a decision and address the issue either way. Right away! But I'm not really sure what to do. Things get tricky if we use her as a primary coach and then try to schedule regular lessons with another coach (one she's recommended previously especially). There are other coaches who work in teams but she doesn't have the same kind of relationship with them. Her skaters rarely work with others, and it's mostly due to their level. Once they get more advanced they typically switch. I also feel like the other coach might want to be the primary to control the lessons with my skaters. Eventually we will need to switch but it feels awkward to completely leave our current coach when co-coaching actually happens as the norm. To make matters more complicated, we have one last competition locally that most skaters attend. This takes place after the school year and potentially after a coaching change. My skaters are aware we potentially have to sit it out, out of respect to our current coach, but we have deadlines fast approaching. How do I proceed in this unclear situation? So far I've received emails from our coach and two other coaches about scheduling for the year as main and supplemental students. Ugh. I want our coach to feel respected and appreciated but I feel like she's avoiding talking it over with us and I am sad and uncertain myself. If coaches have requested emails from students would it be bad to reply to the email with my intention to use a supplemental coach and then just ask the other coach to add us to her schedule wherever we fit? Probably what other students do, but it doesn't sit too well with me. Especially when eventually we will need to switch. Our coach tends to e less organized and often schedules the last of anyone...last minute. So it makes things extra tricky. Maybe I'm hung up on something that doesn't really matter? Thanks in advance for any advice/recommendation.
 

silver.blades

Medalist
Joined
Jan 4, 2007
Country
Canada
Speaking as a coach: The reality of the job is that skaters come and go. Coaches understand that, although some handle it better than others. An excellent coach (IMO) will realize when the skater has move past their ability to coach them effectively or when the relationship isn't helping the skater progress as they should (sometimes this happens when a skater gets too comfortable and isn't necessarily a reflection of the coach's abilities) and will approach the skater/parent about switching. Coaches like that are few and far between unfortunately.

From what you've described, it seems like your skater needs a new primary coach and you are fully within your rights to switch to someone more suitable, however, you can also try the co-coaching route if that makes you feel more comfortable. It's up to you. Just make sure everything is above board and clearly communicated to everyone evolved. Doesn't mean it won't be awkward, but as long as you make sure everyone has all the information about the switch, there is nothing else you can do. Coaches are people and they can be petty. I left my first coach because she was primarily a dance coach and I wanted someone who's focus was freeskate. We were completely upfront with her, thanked her for being a great coach, and then she proceeded to treat me horribly for the next five years or so. (We're on good terms now, but it took awhile.) That said, I've also made several other coaching changes over my career where there were no hard feelings at all, at least not outwardly. All that is to say, you're the one paying for the lessons. If you think that a change is best for your skater, you are fully within your rights to make that change. A reasonable coach might not be happy about losing a skater, but they will accept that it's the reality of the business and not hold it against you or the skater.

Some tips to make the transition as smooth as possible:
1. Have the conversation with your coach about the change in person and then reiterate in writing. Documenting is key, that way there is a record if there are any misunderstandings.
2. Clearly lay out your reasons for changing coaches. Thank your current coach for the work they've done, but let them know your needs have changed.
3. It's fine to be looking for a new coach while still working with your old one, just make sure that your current coach hears from you before they hear you're switching from someone else. (I once found out a skater had gone to another coach because her name was on a test list. The parents never contacted me.)
4. Let your new coach know your coaching history and who your previous coach(es) were.
5. Make sure you have settled all your invoices with your current coach before starting to work with the new coach.

Depending on the situation, who your new coach is, the skills of your current coach and the needs of your skater, consider keeping your current coach as a specialty coach. Have them teach you skater dance or skills and have the new coach focus on freeskate. This is super common where I am. Pretty much every mid to high level test skater has at least 2 coaches: one for freeskate and one for dance, with one coach also taking responsibility for skills. For the most part, these coaches work completely independently of each other, both working as the primary coach for their discipline.

I also want to add that the situation you describe at you rink, with coaches sending out openings and constant switching around of coaches and the blurring of the lines between who's coaching who would make me uncomfortable as well, however, if that's how the coaches at your rink are comfortable working, there is nothing inherently wrong with it. You're right, this situation is a recipe for trouble. I suggest the same as above for you and your skates. Communicate with every coach your skaters are working with. Make it clear who the primary coach is and who the supplementary coaches are (the coaches might decide this themselves, which is fine, as long as everyone is aware of the part they are playing in the skaters' development). If you are going to be working with coaches other than your primary one, get their permission first and let them know if it's a regular or a one off lesson. This isn't to say that problems won't happen, but being communicating clearly is all you can do and will help to mitigate problems.

Hopefully that helps a little. Unfortunately, things like changing coaches can get awkward and there's nothing that can be done about it. As long as you are clear with you intentions, all you can do is hope that the coach is professional and handles it well.
 

Sunshine247

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 17, 2018
Speaking as a coach: The reality of the job is that skaters come and go. Coaches understand that, although some handle it better than others. An excellent coach (IMO) will realize when the skater has move past their ability to coach them effectively or when the relationship isn't helping the skater progress as they should (sometimes this happens when a skater gets too comfortable and isn't necessarily a reflection of the coach's abilities) and will approach the skater/parent about switching. Coaches like that are few and far between unfortunately.

From what you've described, it seems like your skater needs a new primary coach and you are fully within your rights to switch to someone more suitable, however, you can also try the co-coaching route if that makes you feel more comfortable. It's up to you. Just make sure everything is above board and clearly communicated to everyone evolved. Doesn't mean it won't be awkward, but as long as you make sure everyone has all the information about the switch, there is nothing else you can do. Coaches are people and they can be petty. I left my first coach because she was primarily a dance coach and I wanted someone who's focus was freeskate. We were completely upfront with her, thanked her for being a great coach, and then she proceeded to treat me horribly for the next five years or so. (We're on good terms now, but it took awhile.) That said, I've also made several other coaching changes over my career where there were no hard feelings at all, at least not outwardly. All that is to say, you're the one paying for the lessons. If you think that a change is best for your skater, you are fully within your rights to make that change. A reasonable coach might not be happy about losing a skater, but they will accept that it's the reality of the business and not hold it against you or the skater.

Some tips to make the transition as smooth as possible:
1. Have the conversation with your coach about the change in person and then reiterate in writing. Documenting is key, that way there is a record if there are any misunderstandings.
2. Clearly lay out your reasons for changing coaches. Thank your current coach for the work they've done, but let them know your needs have changed.
3. It's fine to be looking for a new coach while still working with your old one, just make sure that your current coach hears from you before they hear you're switching from someone else. (I once found out a skater had gone to another coach because her name was on a test list. The parents never contacted me.)
4. Let your new coach know your coaching history and who your previous coach(es) were.
5. Make sure you have settled all your invoices with your current coach before starting to work with the new coach.

Depending on the situation, who your new coach is, the skills of your current coach and the needs of your skater, consider keeping your current coach as a specialty coach. Have them teach you skater dance or skills and have the new coach focus on freeskate. This is super common where I am. Pretty much every mid to high level test skater has at least 2 coaches: one for freeskate and one for dance, with one coach also taking responsibility for skills. For the most part, these coaches work completely independently of each other, both working as the primary coach for their discipline.

I also want to add that the situation you describe at you rink, with coaches sending out openings and constant switching around of coaches and the blurring of the lines between who's coaching who would make me uncomfortable as well, however, if that's how the coaches at your rink are comfortable working, there is nothing inherently wrong with it. You're right, this situation is a recipe for trouble. I suggest the same as above for you and your skates. Communicate with every coach your skaters are working with. Make it clear who the primary coach is and who the supplementary coaches are (the coaches might decide this themselves, which is fine, as long as everyone is aware of the part they are playing in the skaters' development). If you are going to be working with coaches other than your primary one, get their permission first and let them know if it's a regular or a one off lesson. This isn't to say that problems won't happen, but being communicating clearly is all you can do and will help to mitigate problems.

Hopefully that helps a little. Unfortunately, things like changing coaches can get awkward and there's nothing that can be done about it. As long as you are clear with you intentions, all you can do is hope that the coach is professional and handles it well.



Thank you for taking the time to give a thorough reply. It is definitely helpful. I am proceeding with caution basically as advised and I do need to find the time to speak with our coach directly for sure. The coach is asking for commitments over email and opening up discussions that seem to be best handled in person. I'm left wondering how much can be expressed through email. Could we request a planning meeting and be sure to express that we aren't committed yet? Or do we wait to say everything in person? Is it way taboo to have the discussion at the rink? Our coach never seems available otherwise. Last year's meeting to go over our goals was cancelled, then never got re-scheduled. I am afraid of a repeat. Yet it feels inappropriate to ambush our coach with it at a random time.

It is also really awkward to be leaving a coach and basically saying "we are too good for you now" when it feels presumptuous. Everyone at the rink seems to be hinting we are ready to make a switch though. Its a small rink.On paper it seems time to make a change, and logically too. I guess my heart hurts to end the first coach relationship. I wanna say "It's not you, it's me." I need to consider carefully why exactly we do want to switch if we even do. Or just use "supplemental coaching" How in the world to do you half fire a coach and keep them as not a main coach?

Leaving open the option for MIF coaching seems reasonable since the more experienced coaches don't have much time available anyway. It might even be we don't get much time with a second coach. Last year between our schedule and the fact we were going through our coach rather than scheduling things directly, we didn't work much with other coaches. Other skaters ended up using open slots quickly. In hindsight, it may also be that our coach wasn't as open to sharing as I thought.

Meanwhile, I've been afraid of giving the impression that one of the secondary coaches "poached" us, so I have backed away from conversations with anyone else for the meantime. It does now seem within reason to communicate with them. Maybe letting them know that we haven't made arrangements with our primary coach yet, and asking if we could potentially be added to their schedule. Or if they prefer we switch completely. This should be clear to everyone and give us flexibility to schedule, yet have the opportunity to speak with our coach about our plans before committing to anything.

Things are definitely more confusing than the way its described at the USFSA website! We do like our coach now and it might work to have her concentrate on MIF. I do not really know for sure what the future holds but things are getting a bit more sorted. Asking some direct questions might be a good way to start, since I am obviously not comfortable with what little I know so far. Other parents and skaters seem fine with not being direct but I don't care for that method of doing business or relating to people.
 

Ic3Rabbit

Former Elite, now Pro. ⛸️
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 9, 2017
Country
Olympics
Thank you for taking the time to give a thorough reply. It is definitely helpful. I am proceeding with caution basically as advised and I do need to find the time to speak with our coach directly for sure. The coach is asking for commitments over email and opening up discussions that seem to be best handled in person. I'm left wondering how much can be expressed through email. Could we request a planning meeting and be sure to express that we aren't committed yet? Or do we wait to say everything in person? Is it way taboo to have the discussion at the rink? Our coach never seems available otherwise. Last year's meeting to go over our goals was cancelled, then never got re-scheduled. I am afraid of a repeat. Yet it feels inappropriate to ambush our coach with it at a random time.

It is also really awkward to be leaving a coach and basically saying "we are too good for you now" when it feels presumptuous. Everyone at the rink seems to be hinting we are ready to make a switch though. Its a small rink.On paper it seems time to make a change, and logically too. I guess my heart hurts to end the first coach relationship. I wanna say "It's not you, it's me." I need to consider carefully why exactly we do want to switch if we even do. Or just use "supplemental coaching" How in the world to do you half fire a coach and keep them as not a main coach?

Leaving open the option for MIF coaching seems reasonable since the more experienced coaches don't have much time available anyway. It might even be we don't get much time with a second coach. Last year between our schedule and the fact we were going through our coach rather than scheduling things directly, we didn't work much with other coaches. Other skaters ended up using open slots quickly. In hindsight, it may also be that our coach wasn't as open to sharing as I thought.

Meanwhile, I've been afraid of giving the impression that one of the secondary coaches "poached" us, so I have backed away from conversations with anyone else for the meantime. It does now seem within reason to communicate with them. Maybe letting them know that we haven't made arrangements with our primary coach yet, and asking if we could potentially be added to their schedule. Or if they prefer we switch completely. This should be clear to everyone and give us flexibility to schedule, yet have the opportunity to speak with our coach about our plans before committing to anything.

Things are definitely more confusing than the way its described at the USFSA website! We do like our coach now and it might work to have her concentrate on MIF. I do not really know for sure what the future holds but things are getting a bit more sorted. Asking some direct questions might be a good way to start, since I am obviously not comfortable with what little I know so far. Other parents and skaters seem fine with not being direct but I don't care for that method of doing business or relating to people.

Don't overthink this too much, which it seems like is happening. Go along with what silver.blades said above, I totally agree with them as a pro myself.

Also, if the coach won't make themselves available outside of a lesson to talk about needs, then that answers things for you right there. They set themselves up to lose a student. As a coach you need to be available for more than making a buck over lesson time.
 

VegMom

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 25, 2017
Gaawwwwd, switching coaches is such a nightmare! I have seen some coaches get really angry about it and give the kids stink eye every time they see them, nasty rumors all directions, and just utter chaos. We recently changed coaches and I think it went relatively smoothly.

A few things I learned:
1. Don't dump the first one until you have another coach lined up. (Unless you have some other plan - maybe to do group lessons for a while or take a break etc.) This is because some coaches won't take your student. They either don't have enough time or they don't want to anger the original coach or they have other students who are super-competitive and it would cause a big problem etc etc.
2. Be straight-forward about changing coaches but don't be mean or petty or stupid. Talk about all the good things they've done right, keep it civil and respectful.
3. Make sure you're all paid up before you change coaches. I know a family who didn't settle their bill first and there was a lot of drama that ensued... OMG!
4. As much as you can, try to make sure that the new situation is understood as a trial just in case it doesn't work out. You won't really know how the coaching is going to work until it goes on for a while. And if you did number 2 right then you left the door open to return to your old coach. But if you let your emotions run wild and just let loose, then you probably don't have that option to go back to your old coach if the new one doesn't work out.
5. Enlist help if you need it. Basically, that means asking for advice from others or asking a spouse to help etc.
6. Follow up with an email. Honestly this is a good idea for all kinds of conversations.
 

Sunshine247

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 17, 2018
Thanks to everyone who took the time to reply.

As an update, we ended up with the same coach for our main coach for the next few months at least. We do have a more defined supplemental coaching plan with the second coach and we will work with her as time opens up. Possibly end up switching over the year if there are openings. It would be nice to be more decisive but our schedule for the school year was a mess and the second coach actually really had no time anyway. So until someone else gives up time we are getting the most possible time as it is.

We can work with that. My skaters need to work on basics anyway so I can see the advantage for this as well. They’ll be able to test in September MIF, and freeskate for my one skater. They’ll also be able to skate the last local competition which they are happy to do. And if I feel like they are significantly held back I’m now resolved to try a third coach.

It will still be tricky trying to switch given the working process of the rink. I know a lot of people are scratching their heads watching us. The extra attention is really uncomfortable. Plus it’s super difficult to communicate with the coaches since they aren’t available unless they are standing in a group, or through email. Super awkward and lots of coded language required. There is such a thing as too much collaboration people! I feel like since we are one of the only skaters looking to switch right now, others don’t understand how difficult it really is. I’m hoping that the second coach tries to smooth a path for us and if not, it may not be worth pursuing lessons. Recent feedback hasn’t been super positive. Ugh. I’m not sure if the second coach is unhappy that we didn’t switch or is unhappy we are trying awkwardly to switch.

Definitely feeling much more comfortable after considering my options and hearing feedback though. Can’t wait to move onto over analyzing blades and boots for my younger skater working on doubles! Lol

Hope it helps someone else struggling as well. Don’t do it like me. Consult the advice above!
 

Ic3Rabbit

Former Elite, now Pro. ⛸️
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 9, 2017
Country
Olympics
Thanks to everyone who took the time to reply.

As an update, we ended up with the same coach for our main coach for the next few months at least. We do have a more defined supplemental coaching plan with the second coach and we will work with her as time opens up. Possibly end up switching over the year if there are openings. It would be nice to be more decisive but our schedule for the school year was a mess and the second coach actually really had no time anyway. So until someone else gives up time we are getting the most possible time as it is.

We can work with that. My skaters need to work on basics anyway so I can see the advantage for this as well. They’ll be able to test in September MIF, and freeskate for my one skater. They’ll also be able to skate the last local competition which they are happy to do. And if I feel like they are significantly held back I’m now resolved to try a third coach.

It will still be tricky trying to switch given the working process of the rink. I know a lot of people are scratching their heads watching us. The extra attention is really uncomfortable. Plus it’s super difficult to communicate with the coaches since they aren’t available unless they are standing in a group, or through email. Super awkward and lots of coded language required. There is such a thing as too much collaboration people! I feel like since we are one of the only skaters looking to switch right now, others don’t understand how difficult it really is. I’m hoping that the second coach tries to smooth a path for us and if not, it may not be worth pursuing lessons. Recent feedback hasn’t been super positive. Ugh. I’m not sure if the second coach is unhappy that we didn’t switch or is unhappy we are trying awkwardly to switch.

Definitely feeling much more comfortable after considering my options and hearing feedback though. Can’t wait to move onto over analyzing blades and boots for my younger skater working on doubles! Lol

Hope it helps someone else struggling as well. Don’t do it like me. Consult the advice above!

I'm glad to see that you sort of have a resolution. Have you considered changing rinks all together if you have multiple good ones with good coaches in the area? That might be a good fix right there.
 

GBs mom

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 28, 2019
I can really relate to this challenge. I will say, we've had great experiences with co-coaching. My daughter benefits from the different strengths of the different coaches and so far it hasn't created any conflicts with different approaches. We do make sure it's clearly delineated who the primary coach is and that the primary coach is okay with additional lessons from others. My daughter also adores her primary coach and even though other coaches may be able to take her farther faster, since we're not aiming for her to be an Olympic champion, it's great for her to maintain a strong relationship with a trusted adult. That's as important to me as her skating skills.
 

Sunshine247

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 17, 2018
Another update for those following along...I appreciate the further feedback!

So we’ve ended up through wrangling schedules, with a consistent 1/2 hour for each of my skaters. Yup. Not ideal. The supplemental coach we were most interested in has had no openings so far but teaches a group at another rink. We’ve signed up for two advanced groups at the other rink so my skaters will have that, plus their regular coaching time and if any other skater is sick or on vacation we will pick up where we can. There’s a third coach who *may* have time every other Friday. Lol. We are actually lucky to have so many options. All the coaches are at all the rinks so switching rinks isn’t 100% gonna work. Luckily our head coach seems to have really taken an interest in growing as a coach and learning so I’m hopeful for the chance to “grow with” this coach. There’s never any coach who’s 100% in all ways so we’ll work with what we’ve got. I’ve seen lots of improvement this year already.

It’s been challenging and I did manage to make at least one faux pas by speaking with a “non approved coach” at one point but it was a casual inquiry and not super bad hopefully. Ugh. If anyone wants details as a what not to do just ask.

So we are in a holding pattern, working on off ice with a trainer, picking up supplemental lesson where they can, and looking forward to another school year juggling all the things. My skaters are also “not going to the olympics” so its hard to find balance sometimes.
 
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