2019-20 U.S. Pairs Figure Skating | Page 6 | Golden Skate

2019-20 U.S. Pairs Figure Skating

Olympic

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 1, 2006
Pairs has for quite some time been the weakest discipline in the US, but I would best describe US pairs this season as having 'turned a corner'.

CG/L, SK/K and D/F have all taken their overall skating to the next level this year. It is creating a situation where US pairs are exciting and have to be on their game to advance out of Nationals. These 3 teams will likely podium at Nationals and any of them could finish in the top 10 at Worlds. SK/K are training SBS jumps w/ Rafael Arutunian and appear to be spending a good bit of time on jumps. I think if they somehow jump adequately, they would win Nationals. OTOH, CG/L have harder jumps and more drama in their programs, and could be the #1 US team with clean performances. D/F are there and ready to take over if they are clean and either of those 2 pairs make a mistake, even a small one. I think the cleanest team wins and selection for Worlds will be based on Nationals performances this time, unless there is a catastrophic skate by one of them.

I think C/J can move up to a solid 4th place but they need to clean up their jumps. Their SS are strong and their throws, twist and lifts are big and of high quality. Probably pewter medalists, but I can see a scenario where they get close to the top 3 if they are 'on'. They are my favorites actually, so I'm invested in seeing them improve.

K/O worry me because they were part of the US top tier for a while until this season. Their programs do nothing for me and I was hopeful that when they moved to Dalilah, they would work on their weaknesses / her strengths, mainly the twist and size of their throws but something isn't working. Tarah normally lags Danny in SS (although their programs cleverly hide it w/ in-betweens and transitions that place her behind him). We will see later in the season if they can come back. They did score 190 at GS last year, so there is a possibility for them, but I think their season would end at Nationals if the other 3 teams keep performing they way they are and C/J have become another obstacle.

L/M are interesting and they can jump which is always refreshing for a US pair. They also skate w/ attack which is also great to watch. No 'deer in the headlights' moments from this pair like some other US skaters. I think they are probably #6 in the US at the moment and any movement upwards is going to be a result of long-term commitment, team-building and perfecting their elements, choreography and presence on the ice. I don't see them going higher at Nationals this year unless there is a crack-up from someone listed above ranked ahead of them.

Of the others, S/T stands out. They are building and just seem to get better with each competition and I'm glad they got international experience at Finlandia. They passed 60 points internationally in the SP. She has no problems landing jumps, but she needs to skate w/ more pizzazz. I think they are another team whose results will come long-term like L/M with team building and development of their skills generally. It remains to be seen what happens to newer teams like D/N. It is good to see that the USFSA recognizes them and they have an international assignment. P/S looked good at the beginning of their careers (I remember they made it to SA once) and they caught my attention by their ability to land SBS jumps, but they are perpetually injured. IDK what to think of them right now. They received the minimum for Nationals as I understand it.
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Good luck to all at the U.S. Pairs Final.

Interested to see how Chan/Howe and McIsaac/Sadusky fare.
Hope that the TES minimum will not prevent McIsaac/Sadusky from competing at Nats too. (Chan/Howe already have it from sectionals.)
Wishing Pfund/Santillan the best.

As for juniors, interested to see how Deardorff/Johnson and Flaum/Wellman fare.


AFAIK, Mervin Tran *is* serious about getting U.S. citizenship.
The full-time training base for Serafini/Tran is in the U.S.
And IIRC, he does have a green card.


At least on the ISU site, Ashley/Tim, Tarah/Danny, and the Knierims are listed as entries for Golden Spin, with Olivia/Mervin as subs.
 

Olympic

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 1, 2006
Good luck to all at the U.S. Pairs Final.

Interested to see how Chan/Howe and McIsaac/Sadusky fare.
Hope that the TES minimum will not prevent McIsaac/Sadusky from competing at Nats too. (Chan/Howe already have it from sectionals.)
Wishing Pfund/Santillan the best.

As for juniors, interested to see how Deardorff/Johnson and Flaum/Wellman fare.


AFAIK, Mervin Tran *is* serious about getting U.S. citizenship.
The full-time training base for Serafini/Tran is in the U.S.
And IIRC, he does have a green card.


At least on the ISU site, Ashley/Tim, Tarah/Danny, and the Knierims are listed as entries for Golden Spin, with Olivia/Mervin as subs.

Wow. This is perfect. Knierims and CG/L go head to head in December in front of an international judging panel. It is a perfect way for the USFSA to measure their progress and provide a clear idea of who is better
 

Moxiejan

Medalist
Joined
Jan 11, 2014
Country
United-States

AFAIK, Mervin Tran *is* serious about getting U.S. citizenship.
The full-time training base for Serafini/Tran is in the U.S.
And IIRC, he does have a green card.



That’s good to know. It always seemed odd that when he was skating with Marissa, their training base was Canada & it was not possible for him to start the clock on the U.S. residency rule.
 

skylark

Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset
Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 12, 2014
Country
United-States

AFAIK, Mervin Tran *is* serious about getting U.S. citizenship.
The full-time training base for Serafini/Tran is in the U.S.
And IIRC, he does have a green card.



That’s good to know. It always seemed odd that when he was skating with Marissa, their training base was Canada & it was not possible for him to start the clock on the U.S. residency rule.

True. But AFAIK, Mervin got his green card in early 2018. Even if my memory doesn't serve and it was early 2017, that cuts 2022 awfully close for the 5-year minimum residence. But maybe they're not thinking of 2022, idk.
 

SnowWhite

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 30, 2016
Country
Canada
In response to above, some random thoughts about the season so far:

1. Denney/Frazier seem to be on an upward trajectory. She appears nearly recovered from her injury; much better knee bend in the jumps than we saw last season. I see them as right in the mix for a Worlds spot & certainly on the 4CC team.

2. Cain/Leduc: The good news is that they're now scoring well internationally on the second mark; judges are giving them their due. But worrisome are the tech errors that seem to becoming more frequent. I still see them as the #1 U.S. pair & think their "body of work" should put them on the Worlds team, unless they have a total meltdown at Nationals.

3. Knierims: Jumps are a little better, but I'm not seeing their usual "wow" in the twist & lifts. I've loved them for years, but I think they're in trouble as far as making Worlds.

4. The others: I see the likely #4 as Calalang/Johnson; quite good at Skate America. Haven't seen Nica/Danny this year; liked them very much last year. As for Olivia/Mervin, I just can't invest in them emotionally until he gets serious about citizenship.

I'm not so sure about that. Let's say the Knierim's win, D/F are 2nd and C/L are 3rd (very plausible based on the season so far). D/F have beaten C/L head to head twice already this season, and have two GP medals. I would think that D/F would have earned that 2nd spot, even without a meltdown from C/L. Or even if the Knierim were 2nd and C/L were 3rd, I'm not sure they'd send C/L instead of them.
 

SnowWhite

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 30, 2016
Country
Canada
And C/L also have beaten D/F head-to-head this season.

At some summer event? Because they have not, internationally.

So far this season, Cain/Leduc have skated the SP at Skate Detroit, the US Classic, Skate America and IdF. Denney/Frazier have skated at a Florida club comp, Nebelhorn, Skate America and IdF. So the GP events are their only head to heads this year that I'm aware of, and D/F have won both of them.
 

Moxiejan

Medalist
Joined
Jan 11, 2014
Country
United-States
At some summer event? Because they have not, internationally.
So far this season, Cain/Leduc have skated the SP at Skate Detroit, the US Classic, Skate America and IdF. Denney/Frazier have skated at a Florida club comp, Nebelhorn, Skate America and IdF. So the GP events are their only head to heads this year that I'm aware of, and D/F have won both of them.

You are correct; I was thinking D/F was among the 3 U.S. teams that C/L beat when they won the Classic (also over the #1 Russians and #2 Chinese). So, instead of saying “this season,” let’s say “this year”: head-to-head wins at 4CCs and U.S. Nationals. Those do count in the “body of work” component for Worlds selection.
 

SnowWhite

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 30, 2016
Country
Canada
You are correct; I was thinking D/F was among the 3 U.S. teams that C/L beat when they won the Classic (also over the #1 Russians and #2 Chinese). So, instead of saying “this season,” let’s say “this year”: head-to-head wins at 4CCs and U.S. Nationals. Those do count in the “body of work” component for Worlds selection.

Sure, but in this scenario, D/F would have beat them head to head at Nationals 2020, which carries more weight. Imo, that combined with the GP results mean that C/L shouldn't get a Worlds spot ahead of D/F IF D/F beat them at nationals.
 

Moxiejan

Medalist
Joined
Jan 11, 2014
Country
United-States
Sure, but in this scenario, D/F would have beat them head to head at Nationals 2020, which carries more weight. Imo, that combined with the GP results mean that C/L shouldn't get a Worlds spot ahead of D/F IF D/F beat them at nationals.

I never said that C/L should get a spot AHEAD of D/F. I said that I thought C/L’s body of work should get them one of the spots (there are 2 this year, thanks to C/L at 2019 Worlds), unless they have a meltdown. In the “pecking order” of my post, I had D/F at #1, C/L at #2. And, yes, the ones who might be left out are the Knierims.

The scenario you’re discussing was put forth by you, not me.
 

SnowWhite

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 30, 2016
Country
Canada
I never said that C/L should get a spot AHEAD of D/F. I said that I thought C/L’s body of work should get them one of the spots (there are 2 this year, thanks to C/L at 2019 Worlds), unless they have a meltdown. In the “pecking order” of my post, I had D/F at #1, C/L at #2. And, yes, the ones who might be left out are the Knierims.

The scenario you’re discussing was put forth by you, not me.

You said that you thought their body of work should get them onto the team as long as they don't have a complete meltdown at Nationals. I gave a scenario where I don't think that would happen. I don't think the USFS will leave the Knierims at home if they win Nationals, so then it depends who's 2nd. For me, C/L body of work is not enough to guarantee them a spot if they aren't top two at Nats. It depends on how it plays out.
 

Moxiejan

Medalist
Joined
Jan 11, 2014
Country
United-States
You said that you thought their body of work should get them onto the team as long as they don't have a complete meltdown at Nationals. I gave a scenario where I don't think that would happen. I don't think the USFS will leave the Knierims at home if they win Nationals, so then it depends who's 2nd. For me, C/L body of work is not enough to guarantee them a spot if they aren't top two at Nats. It depends on how it plays out.

I think the scenario you described (Knierims 1st, D/F 2nd & C/L 3rd) is the ONLY one (IMHO) in which a 3rd would/should not get C/L on the team. Assuming D/F is first, i’d put C/L ahead of anyone else in 2nd, including K/K. All eyes on the showdown at Golden Spin!
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
It is great that whoever gets sent to worlds has the chance to be in the top five or six teams in the world assuming that they can beat the Canadians.
 

Roo87

Medalist
Joined
Nov 12, 2017
It is great that whoever gets sent to worlds has the chance to be in the top five or six teams in the world assuming that they can beat the Canadians.

When was the last time any of those teams beat the top Canadians?
 

oly2018

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 13, 2018
When was the last time any of those teams beat the top Canadians?

Yeah, I was going to say, I don't think an American team can beat MT/M, unless the Canadians have a particularly bad day. Now, I think most of the American teams could be competitive with I/B. Especially the three teams who are the likely candidates for the world team.
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
Good luck to all at the U.S. Pairs Final.

Interested to see how Chan/Howe and McIsaac/Sadusky fare.
Hope that the TES minimum will not prevent McIsaac/Sadusky from competing at Nats too. (Chan/Howe already have it from sectionals.)
Wishing Pfund/Santillan the best.

As for juniors, interested to see how Deardorff/Johnson and Flaum/Wellman fare.


AFAIK, Mervin Tran *is* serious about getting U.S. citizenship.
The full-time training base for Serafini/Tran is in the U.S.
And IIRC, he does have a green card.


At least on the ISU site, Ashley/Tim, Tarah/Danny, and the Knierims are listed as entries for Golden Spin, with Olivia/Mervin as subs.
THe US is looking pretty good right now. Mervin may have had a better chance in Canada. Certainly Japan if he had some ties. I am not really sure which countries he would have the necessary "ties" to represent them plus of course a partner -a gain depends how competitive he wants. But right now the US is developing very nicely and Olivia and Mervin aren't super necessary for the US success or growth and development.
 

Roo87

Medalist
Joined
Nov 12, 2017
Yeah, I was going to say, I don't think an American team can beat MT/M, unless the Canadians have a particularly bad day. Now, I think most of the American teams could be competitive with I/B. Especially the three teams who are the likely candidates for the world team.

Absolutely. I/B have yet to be clean in the free, but if they are I think their score could be competitive because they get huge GOE on their lifts
 

Yeslekyelnats

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 13, 2018
I think the scenario you described (Knierims 1st, D/F 2nd & C/L 3rd) is the ONLY one (IMHO) in which a 3rd would/should not get C/L on the team. Assuming D/F is first, i’d put C/L ahead of anyone else in 2nd, including K/K. All eyes on the showdown at Golden Spin!

But the Knierims are way better? Why are people putting so much pressure on the Knierims jumps when the jumps aren’t worth that many points and they still score well.
 
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