2019-20 U.S. Pairs Figure Skating

elbkup · Jan 24, 2020

So over the moon for the Knierims!! I have never lost faith in them; tho their road has been rocky to say the least, they have an elegance about them unsurpassed. The twist was magnificent, lifts divine, skating superb, music perfect for them. And I loved, loved their comment when Tracy asked: "Tell me, QUICKLY, IN ONE WORD, what made the d ifference out there tonight.." "RAF" was the response..
I must say too that Alexa is a beauty but Chris is absolutely SO handsome.. he looked wonderful!!

skylark · Jan 24, 2020

princessalica said:
skylark said:

Ashley Cain-Gribble and Timothy Leduc. Unfortunate mishap on the death spiral aside ... Ashley and Tim had the audience in the arena in a constant state of Ooooohs and Aaaahs. Literally. The effect of their program was electrifying. If you've ever been puzzled by what the judges see in them and why A/T earn such high marks, you oughta see them in person. Their height, their performing, how big and fast and passionately they skate, and their unison create this whole alternate reality.

So I don't always watch pairs, or at least I don't always know what to look for.... I watched Tim and Ashley's and I was worried about the two foot on the throw jump, but what exactly what was wrong on the death spiral? It wasn't obvious to me. Can anyone give me a more detailed explanation?

Click to expand...

Hi PrincessAlica, I've only just now checked the site so, sorry, I didn't see your question earlier. And you weren't alone, the whole arena audience didn't see it and were puzzled when the scores came up. Just another example of how something that most people don't see can make a difference of several points. Judging from Ashley and Tim's usual scores for death spirals, I figure they would've had another 4.5 points or so. Which, considering the mistake on the landing of the throw lutz, would have been about right; their total SP score would have been in the area of 73 points.

Here's an explanation from Jackie Wong, and Moxiejan's reply to that ... I agree with Moxiejan!

According to Jackie Wong:

"On replay, LeDuc repositioned his toepick on his pivot about 1/2 a revolution into their death spiral, which could have been deemed by the panel as a "shift in pivot," which ends the death spiral. Because they were not yet 1 rev in, the death spiral would get a 0."

Click to expand...

Then, Moxiejan replied:

I looked at it in slo-mo several times. Looked like the angle of the foot changed slightly but the pivot didn’t move. Harsh!

Click to expand...

These are copied from p. 12 of the comp thread for Pairs SP at US championships.

skylark · Jan 24, 2020

elbkup said:
And I loved, loved their comment when Tracy asked: "Tell me, QUICKLY, IN ONE WORD, what made the d ifference out there tonight.." "RAF" was the response..

Interesting. I really loved what Alexa said in the Press Conference. She said that every time they have a class with Raf, "I have to cry a little bit." Then she went on to explain that Raf is blunt and will say if he thinks [it] was horrible ... but that Raf absolutely believes that they can do the jumps.

I thought it was perhaps the best description I've heard of why so many of Raf's skaters stay with him and seem to love him ... despite the death stares:eeking:, etc.

elbkup · Jan 24, 2020

skylark said:
Interesting. I really loved what Alexa said in the Press Conference. She said that every time they have a class with Raf, "I have to cry a little bit." Then she went on to explain that Raf is blunt and will say if he thinks [it] was horrible ... but that Raf absolutely believes that they can do the jumps.

I thought it was perhaps the best description I've heard of why so many of Raf's skaters stay with him and seem to love him ... despite the death stares:eeking:, etc.

Yes .. he reminds me of the Harbinger of Doom.... but Mariah seems to handle him well too and can coax a smile out of him.. I think he's amazing... let's see how everyone does in the FS, fingers crossed ...

princessalica · Jan 24, 2020

Thank you skylark! I even went back and rewatched because I didn't remember anything not going well with it, and then even re watching and couldn't see it. I really appreciate you providing an explanation.

gold12345 · Jan 24, 2020

Regarding Cain/LeDuc's death spiral, LeDuc picked in for the death spiral, then leaned back onto his blade, and then picked in again, so no points. I remember the Canadian pair Walsh/Michaud making this mistake on the Grand Prix too, if I'm recalling correctly. I like Cain/LeDuc's SP, but the lack of height difference will always affect their look on the ice and how they perform pair elements.

When the Knierims skate up to their potential, they're absolutely world class and I can't help but think what they could do on a world level. That was maybe the best they've ever looked in a SP, and they seem more comfortable with their new Raf technique. They likely still need more time with it, but their confidence has clearly grown. Their twist and throws are top notch, and when they're doing well, they're in a different league from the other US pairs. Alexa might be the best pairs talent we've ever had and I've always believed in K/K no matter what mistakes they make.

I think the US could challenge for 3 spots at Worlds if they send the Knierims and Cain/LeDuc. Kayne/O'Shea haven't shown any upwards scoring potential--some of their elements are lower tier, and their watered down programs aren't going to help in world level competition. Denney/Frazier are in a similar boat with lower technical content that is pretty erratic.

moonvine · Jan 24, 2020

elbkup said:
So over the moon for the Knierims!! I have never lost faith in them; tho their road has been rocky to say the least, they have an elegance about them unsurpassed. The twist was magnificent, lifts divine, skating superb, music perfect for them. And I loved, loved their comment when Tracy asked: "Tell me, QUICKLY, IN ONE WORD, what made the d ifference out there tonight.." "RAF" was the response..
I must say too that Alexa is a beauty but Chris is absolutely SO handsome.. he looked wonderful!!

Yes to all this. I never lost faith either.

TontoK · Jan 25, 2020

gold12345 said:
Regarding Cain/LeDuc's death spiral, LeDuc picked in for the death spiral, then leaned back onto his blade, and then picked in again, so no points. I remember the Canadian pair Walsh/Michaud making this mistake on the Grand Prix too, if I'm recalling correctly. I like Cain/LeDuc's SP, but the lack of height difference will always affect their look on the ice and how they perform pair elements.

When the Knierims skate up to their potential, they're absolutely world class and I can't help but think what they could do on a world level. That was maybe the best they've ever looked in a SP, and they seem more comfortable with their new Raf technique. They likely still need more time with it, but their confidence has clearly grown. Their twist and throws are top notch, and when they're doing well, they're in a different league from the other US pairs. Alexa might be the best pairs talent we've ever had and I've always believed in K/K no matter what mistakes they make.

I think the US could challenge for 3 spots at Worlds if they send the Knierims and Cain/LeDuc. Kayne/O'Shea haven't shown any upwards scoring potential--some of their elements are lower tier, and their watered down programs aren't going to help in world level competition. Denney/Frazier are in a similar boat with lower technical content that is pretty erratic.

Yes, bad luck for Cain/LeDuc, but the call was correct. Nitpicky, yes, but I'm a stickler on technical stuff, so I can't complain.

I've already admitted I'd lost interest in the K's, so major congratulations for winning me back. Yep, the elements are world class, but the thing that really caught my attention was the elegance, the romance, the suave vibe. They looked like a Hollywood power couple, very good looking, and man did they deliver the goods. This was so much better than the weird programs they've done in the past.

I liked Kayne/O'Shea's new program, and I didn't expect that I would.

I've still got a soft spot for D/F, but just not their night.

Arriba627 · Jan 25, 2020

Thrilled to death for the Knierims! Hope they can bring it in the free! Tarah and Danny looked the best they've looked in a long time. Really am becoming a fan of Calalang and Johnson. I love Haven and Brandon, but I just worry about her knee! Hope they can bounce back in the free.

skylark · Jan 25, 2020

gold12345 said:
I like Cain/LeDuc's SP, but the lack of height difference will always affect their look on the ice and how they perform pair elements.

I think that's one of the things that makes Cain-Gribble/LeDuc such a world-class pair -- from the beginning, they chose to live up to their statuesque height and make it an advantage. To those who can see the advantages, or who can accept that there's more than one way to look and perform pair elements, it makes them unique and creative.

moonvine · Jan 25, 2020

I just thought this was adorable, so for those who don’t have access to the comp threads - the Git Up Challenge. I love my Chris and Alexa, but I think they phoned it in this time:

https://twitter.com/tabithalovessp1/status/1221194129943793664?s=21

natsulian · Jan 26, 2020

I was not at home during Calalang and Johnson’s performance so I did not see it... I am so bummed that there aren’t any videos.

ramurphy2005 · Jan 26, 2020

natsulian said:
I was not at home during Calalang and Johnson’s performance so I did not see it... I am so bummed that there aren’t any videos.

I'm surprised that NBC didn't put that one up. They put up all sorts of the other highlight skates from Nationals, and it's crazy that they haven't put that one up.

rollerblade · Jan 26, 2020

Calalang/Johnson not selected for Worlds.

USFS is run by idiots.

NAOTMAA · Jan 26, 2020

rollerblade said:
Calalang/Johnson not selected for Worlds.

USFS is run by idiots.

It's even more ridiculous considering Calalang/Johnson beat Cain-Gribble/LeDuc TWICE this season (nationals and Skate America)

TWICE in one season and they still picked as they did!!!!! :bang:

Moxiejan · Jan 27, 2020

NAOTMAA said:
It's even more ridiculous considering Calalang/Johnson beat Cain-Gribble/LeDuc TWICE this season (nationals and Skate America)

TWICE in one season and they still picked as they did!!!!!

And at the U.S. Classic Challenger, which C-G/L won over Tarasova/Morozov, C/J lost to them & 2 other U.S. pairs.

labgoat · Jan 27, 2020

natsulian said:
I was not at home during Calalang and Johnson’s performance so I did not see it... I am so bummed that there aren’t any videos.

You need to check the video thread...

skylark · Jan 28, 2020

I was surprised by the decision to send Cain-Gribble/LeDuc to Worlds, but I'm very supportive of it. For one thing, C-G/L proved with their 9th place finish at Worlds 2019 that they could stand up admirably to two strong pressures: the pressure of their first Worlds, and the added pressure of everyone wanting them to earn back two World spots for us.

The point of the BOW criteria is to make a strategic decision about how the US can get the best results, for this year and going forward. C-G/L have the highest World Ranking of any US team, and that's because of how they've performed over the past year, not just for the GP season. That Ranking determines what group they'll skate the SP in at Worlds 2020. Calalang/Johnson would have had a much earlier start position.

USFS adhered to their criteria for BOW. Here's a quick summary of those criteria.

2020 Nats, 2019 GPF, and 2019 Worlds are Tier 1 of USFS selection criteria. All events in the same tier receive equal weight.
....
(Tier 2: 2019 GPs, 2019 Four Continents, 2019 Junior Worlds

Tier 3: 2019 Challengers and senior internationals, 2019 Nats, 2019 JGPF)

Click to expand...

--post #183 by ice coverage on p. 10 of this thread.

rollerblade said:
Calalang/Johnson not selected for Worlds.

USFS is run by idiots.

NAOTMAA said:
It's even more ridiculous considering Calalang/Johnson beat Cain-Gribble/LeDuc TWICE this season (nationals and Skate America)

On the contrary. USFS is run by strategic thinkers intent on improving US chances for high placements in the pairs division. It is not ridiculous, because the GP results are in the second tier, and Challengers results are in the third tier of the criteria. Calalang and Johnson didn't go to either 2019 4CC or 2019 Worlds. Cain-Gribble/Leduc did, and they performed very well -- 4th at 4CC and 9th at Worlds.

I'd love it if we US fans could pretend that we're a little bit Canadian ... I'd love it if we could all be supportive of all our Pairs teams and build them up, not tear them down.

Moxiejan · Jan 28, 2020

^^
I think it really helped C-G/L that they won Zagreb just last month; that gave them the boost they needed in world ranking. Had they not done well there, or if it had been Denney/Frazier in 2nd at Nationals, i don’t think they would have gotten the Worlds spot.

Skater Boy · Jan 29, 2020

gold12345 said:
Regarding Cain/LeDuc's death spiral, LeDuc picked in for the death spiral, then leaned back onto his blade, and then picked in again, so no points. I remember the Canadian pair Walsh/Michaud making this mistake on the Grand Prix too, if I'm recalling correctly. I like Cain/LeDuc's SP, but the lack of height difference will always affect their look on the ice and how they perform pair elements.

When the Knierims skate up to their potential, they're absolutely world class and I can't help but think what they could do on a world level. That was maybe the best they've ever looked in a SP, and they seem more comfortable with their new Raf technique. They likely still need more time with it, but their confidence has clearly grown. Their twist and throws are top notch, and when they're doing well, they're in a different league from the other US pairs. Alexa might be the best pairs talent we've ever had and I've always believed in K/K no matter what mistakes they make.

I think the US could challenge for 3 spots at Worlds if they send the Knierims and Cain/LeDuc. Kayne/O'Shea haven't shown any upwards scoring potential--some of their elements are lower tier, and their watered down programs aren't going to help in world level competition. Denney/Frazier are in a similar boat with lower technical content that is pretty erratic.

I totally agree but I think the Canadian teams will be key in that battle. I expect they will cancel each other and neither will get three spots.

2019-20 U.S. Pairs Figure Skating

elbkup

Power without conscience is a savage weapon

skylark

Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset

skylark

Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset

elbkup

Power without conscience is a savage weapon

princessalica

gold12345

moonvine

All Hail Queen Gracie

TontoK

Hot Tonto

Arriba627

TWO-TIME WORLD CHAMPION 🔥

skylark

Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset

moonvine

All Hail Queen Gracie

natsulian

ramurphy2005

Unabashed Mainer

rollerblade

NAOTMAA

Moxiejan

labgoat

Thinking about art & life...

skylark

Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset

Moxiejan

Skater Boy

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