Gold Star Blades

Hi All,

Zeroing in on new blades. Skater wanted the big picks on the P99 or Phantom, neither of which coach is approving of at this time. She's not saying absolutely no, just not encouraging them (she's not a fan of the Phantom at all though, unclear why) so we'll lean in her direction on this. Coach wants a more pronounced spin rocker than her CoroAce's have now. That pretty much leaves the Gold Seal (coaches long time blade) or Gold Star (or moving to the MK pro, but that would be a tough sell*). Now, it looks like the Gold Star has a much more aggressive pick which skater might like. I know it has a 7' rocker, and since her spins and edges aren't solid (though improving since she's working harder on them) so it's the leading choice at the moment. Current status, working on doubles to Flip, testing Juvenile MITF at the end of the month (finally a test date), working on Intermediate now (3/5ths there). Anyone care to give specifics why the Gold Seal would be a better choice? The first thing skater said when she saw the Gold Seal was, "teeny pick, smaller than mine", second comment was, "they're REALLY heavy".

*Though they are coming out with an MK Pro Light soon, that might help the sale.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BzYNdRqnpuY/

Main rocker doesn’t have any impact on spins. It impacts more turns and footwork.

I'm utterly biased towards Phantoms. Best Blades Ever. (I've been wearing MK Dance for years but still miss my Phantoms...) Which is absolutely no help whatsoever, but I would be very interested to learn the coach's reason for not approving them "at this time".

WednesdayMarch said:

I'm utterly biased towards Phantoms. Best Blades Ever. (I've been wearing MK Dance for years but still miss my Phantoms...) Which is absolutely no help whatsoever, but I would be very interested to learn the coach's reason for not approving them "at this time".

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Coach says personal experience. She tried them years ago and didn't like them. Her sister loved them. Seems to be the case with this blade in particular, either love it or hate it. Wish is wasn't a $500 gamble. I think we're safer with the Gold Star.

Sam L said:

Main rocker doesn’t have any impact on spins. It impacts more turns and footwork.

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But the main rocker does affect the entrance to the spin. And if you don't get the entrance right, you don't get a good spin. I know a couple of coaches who use spin ability in deciding between Gold Star (skaters ready to move on from intermediate blades, but not rock solid spins) and Gold Seal (skaters ready to move on from intermediate blades, rock solid spins). I'd be interested in hearing from others on this selection criterion.

Sibelius said:

(or moving to the MK pro, but that would be a tough sell*). ...
*Though they are coming out with an MK Pro Light soon, that might help the sale.

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Is weight the issue? If so, and you don't want to wait for the Pro Light or be a guinea pig for a brand new model, there is an existing Pro Revolution light-weight blade. Or, is weight not the issue, and your skater does not perceive the standard Pro to be a jazzy blade, but the Pro Light might be (and wouldn't the Pro Revolution also be)?

Sibelius said:

Coach says personal experience. She tried them years ago and didn't like them. Her sister loved them. Seems to be the case with this blade in particular, either love it or hate it. Wish is wasn't a $500 gamble. I think we're safer with the Gold Star.

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I loved my Phantoms. Honestly I understand wanting to listen to the coach on this (and other things), but if she's basing on trying them herself years ago and disliking them, so much has changed and that also doesn't mean they wouldn't work for your daughter and be to her liking.

tstop4me said:

But the main rocker does affect the entrance to the spin. And if you don't get the entrance right, you don't get a good spin. I know a couple of coaches who use spin ability in deciding between Gold Star (skaters ready to move on from intermediate blades, but not rock solid spins) and Gold Seal (skaters ready to move on from intermediate blades, rock solid spins). I'd be interested in hearing from others on this selection criterion.

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That's where she is, coach says ready to move on from an intermediate, but definitely NOT rock solid spins.

tstop4me said:

Is weight the issue? If so, and you don't want to wait for the Pro Light or be a guinea pig for a brand new model, there is an existing Pro Revolution light-weight blade. Or, is weight not the issue, and your skater does not perceive the standard Pro to be a jazzy blade, but the Pro Light might be (and wouldn't the Pro Revolution also be)?

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Yes, weight is an issue and the Gold Seals are heavy. The Pro Lite is lighter than the Rev, and looks like it might have more room for catch foot elements. Still an intermediate, but a rounder spin rocker (at least on the specs) that her coach wants.

Ic3Rabbit said:

I loved my Phantoms. Honestly I understand wanting to listen to the coach on this (and other things), but if she's basing on trying them herself years ago and disliking them, so much has changed and that also doesn't mean they wouldn't work for your daughter and be to her liking.

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It's really hard to go against the coach, and she's definitely not a pushy one either. She says she had two other skaters move on from the Phantom and "they were much happier". I think the Gold Star is a good compromise, but coach says talk to the boot and blade people and get their opinion. We'll see what they recommend I suppose.

I talked to one of the higher level skater's mom and hers is on the Matrix Supreme. She says most of the girls are on either the Gold Seal Revs or the Supreme. Mine wrinkles her nose at anything non Wilson or MK after her experience moving from Eclipse to Wilson.

Sibelius said:

It's really hard to go against the coach, and she's definitely not a pushy one either. She says she had two other skaters move on from the Phantom and "they were much happier". I think the Gold Star is a good compromise, but coach says talk to the boot and blade people and get their opinion. We'll see what they recommend I suppose.

I talked to one of the higher level skater's mom and hers is on the Matrix Supreme. She says most of the girls are on either the Gold Seal Revs or the Supreme. Mine wrinkles her nose at anything non Wilson or MK after her experience moving from Eclipse to Wilson.

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I'm not a fan of the Matrix blades, wore then and they're a pain. Also, I was going to let you know earlier and forgot, don't let her get a Rev blade. They are terrible and make spinning and catch foots difficult, also deep edges suffer.

tstop4me said:

But the main rocker does affect the entrance to the spin. And if you don't get the entrance right, you don't get a good spin. I know a couple of coaches who use spin ability in deciding between Gold Star (skaters ready to move on from intermediate blades, but not rock solid spins) and Gold Seal (skaters ready to move on from intermediate blades, rock solid spins). I'd be interested in hearing from others on this selection criterion.

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Well of course but that's a technique question. Someone who isn't getting the entrance right with a 8ft main rocker suddenly isn't going to get their entry right by switching to a 7ft main rocker. Also you make it sound like Phantoms/Gold Stars are intermediate blades that skaters use to move onto P99/Gold Seals.

Sam L said:

Well of course but that's a technique question. Someone who isn't getting the entrance right with a 8ft main rocker suddenly isn't going to get their entry right by switching to a 7ft main rocker.

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The OP was discussing switching from a Coronation Ace, which has a 7' main rocker. In the absence of marketing data, I think it's a safe assumption to say that most intermediate blades have a 7' main rocker, because that market segment is heavily dominated by Wilson Coronation Ace and MK Professional (both 7'). The Eclipse Aurora (and previous Eclipse Mist) is also 7'. The exceptions then are primarily Ultima blades with 8' [original Legacy (discontinued), Legacy 8, and Matrix Legacy]. What their market share is, I don't know; but it is telling that a couple of years ago Ultima did introduce the Legacy 7 with a 7' main rocker. The other exception I'm aware of is the Wilson Comet, specified as a 8.5' main rocker. That was discontinued several years ago; so safe to assume it wasn't wildly popular (at least in recent years).

So for most skaters currently on an intermediate blade with a 7' main rocker, one key factor, in the context of upgrading to Gold Star or Gold Seal, is whether to stay with 7' or switch to 8'. To clarify and expound upon what I wrote above, the rationale expressed by a couple of coaches I know is that if skaters do not have rock solid spins (currently on 7'), they should stay with 7', rather than switching to 8' (which would presumably make things harder). And as I wrote above, "I'd be interested in hearing from others on this selection criterion."

Sam L said:

Also you make it sound like Phantoms/Gold Stars are intermediate blades that skaters use to move onto P99/Gold Seals.

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I don't know how you get that impression. What I wrote was:

tstop4me said:

I know a couple of coaches who use spin ability in deciding between Gold Star (skaters ready to move on from intermediate blades, but not rock solid spins) and Gold Seal (skaters ready to move on from intermediate blades, rock solid spins).

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<<Emphasis added.>>

In both instances, I explicitly stated skaters ready to move on from intermediate blades, not to intermediate blades.

Sibelius said:

Yes, weight is an issue and the Gold Seals are heavy. The Pro Lite is lighter than the Rev, and looks like it might have more room for catch foot elements. Still an intermediate, but a rounder spin rocker (at least on the specs) that her coach wants.

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One reason the standard Gold Seal is relatively heavy is because it has a solid toe plate, whereas all the other standard Wilsons and all the standard MKs have a cutout in the toe plate. So, if you are saying that the standard MK Pro is also too heavy to be suitable, and the MK Pro Rev is not suitable for other reasons (leaving only the MK Pro Lite as a suitable MK Pro candidate), aren't you now going to have an issue with the MK Gold Star, since it comes in only standard and Rev (unless there's a Lite waiting in the wings)? If you want a lightweight, but not Rev, version of Gold Star, you would then need to look at Ultima Matrix Nova (Paramount doesn't have any lightweight blade listed as comparable to Gold Star), but if your skater doesn't want to consider blades other than Wilsons and MKs, that's not an option either. Looks like your selection criteria are rapidly becoming overconstrained.

The standard Gold Star doesn't have the solid sole plate, is a bit lighter than the Gold Seal, has the same spin rocker her coach is asking for, has the 7' main radius to help with spins and edges for now. I'd say we're perfectly determined. The point of the thread was to determine whether the Gold Star was the choice, and I think it's been shown that for us at this time it is!

Thanks to all.