Switching to Edea Skates. Insoles, & blade placement questions! | Golden Skate

Switching to Edea Skates. Insoles, & blade placement questions!

WhateverWorks

Spectator
Joined
Aug 10, 2019
I've skated in Klingbeil's my entire career (so long that the company no longer exists in it's original form), and I switched to Edea Ice Flys, and I've had a few issues that perhaps people have some advice for!

1.) I found out that I skated for years on blades that were improperly mounted too far forward on the boot. With the blade (gold seal) now mounted correctly (further back) I find myself going onto my toe pick almost instantly during just about anything. Can't even get into a spin without going so high on blade that I fall out of it, and even simple things like back crossovers are very scratchy. I hoped I'd adjust quickly, but this bad habit is so far impossible to break. I'm wondering if this is connected to the blade placement, or the higher heel on Edea skates shifting my weight farther forward when I skate?

2.) Arch pain. Can skate about 10 minutes before it becomes unbearable even with a built in arch. I'm thinking maybe a different skating insole might help? Is there a brand people suggest like Superfeet? Have other skaters struggled adjusting to Edea skates?

Thanks for any advice!
 

Ic3Rabbit

Former Elite, now Pro. ⛸️
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 9, 2017
Country
Olympics
Perhaps Edea just isn't for you?! Has that entered your mind?

I used to compete for awhile long ago in Klingbeil and I will NOT touch Edea and have voiced my dislike here many a time.

Have you looked into Jackson? Risport?
 

sandraskates

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 31, 2006
Country
United-States
I'm a Harlick girl. The Harlick toebox is not high. The one time I tried on Klingbeil's, OMG I thought that toe box was high, with an excess amount of space. I knew I could not wear them and stayed with Harlicks.
A coach at my rink is trying to sell some Edeas (don't recall which model) and I tried them out just out of curiosity. Their toe box was even more snug then my Harlicks.

So I'm kinda thinking that it may take a while for you to get used to the Edeas or as Ic3rabbit said, they may not be right for you, thus the arch pain issues.

As for the blade mount, my Phantoms fit very close end-to-end on my Harlick sole; the toe picks are "right there" in the front but I don't have any issues with that. I'm not well-versed enough in blade mounting to say have your blade "moved up where your comfort zone was" but if you don't have permanent blade mounting yet, you could give it a try.
It sounds like you have some pretty drastic changes to get used to and I hope you get them resolved!
 

tstop4me

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 2, 2015
Country
United-States
1.) I found out that I skated for years on blades that were improperly mounted too far forward on the boot. With the blade (gold seal) now mounted correctly (further back) I find myself going onto my toe pick almost instantly during just about anything. Can't even get into a spin without going so high on blade that I fall out of it, and even simple things like back crossovers are very scratchy. I hoped I'd adjust quickly, but this bad habit is so far impossible to break. I'm wondering if this is connected to the blade placement, or the higher heel on Edea skates shifting my weight farther forward when I skate?
It would help if you gave more details for both blade mountings. In traditional boots such as Klingbeils, the target blade length is typically 1/4" less than the sole length (sole length measured from front tip of sole to back tip of heel of boot); actual blade length may vary depending on closest available blade size. The blade is typically mounted with the front tip of the sole plate flush with the front tip of the sole, or slightly back (though the mount can be adjusted forward/backward from the typical position to accommodate individual feet). Edeas have a very high heel pitch; therefore, the sole length is shorter than that of a traditional boot. Edea specifies that the target blade length is equal to the sole length (actual blade length may vary depending on closest available blade size), with the front tip of the sole plate flush with the front tip of the sole, and the back tip of the heel plate flush with the back tip of the heel. How do your mounts compare with the target mounts?

I have no experience with Klingbeil or Edea. But I did switch from a Riedell Royal (relatively low heel) to a Jackson Elite (relatively high heel). According to a skate tech I spoke to at the time I bought my Jackson, the Ice Fly had an even higher heel (which is not apparent from looking at the external heels, because the Ice Fly has a higher heel inside the boot). Blade was Coronation Ace on both the Riedell and the Jackson. Anyway, when I switched to the Jackson, I didn't notice much difference on my forward maneuvers, but during my backward maneuvers, I was rising up on my toes. The two skate techs at the shop were also coaches (and former competitive and pro skaters). They told me that, yeah, that was normal when switching from low to high heels. I had to relearn my backward maneuvers with my weight shifted further back to get off my toes. It took me about 10 sessions to get back to normal going backwards (but I tend to be slow when it comes to adjusting to new gear). I never did get a good explanation from anyone why backward maneuvers were more strongly affected.
 

WhateverWorks

Spectator
Joined
Aug 10, 2019
Thank you! It's definitely a completely different experience from Klingbeils which felt like slippers compared to everything else I've ever tried over the years. Only drawback I ever had was that they were the heaviest skates on market, and they're not even made anymore. My old pair unfortunately broke down.

I'm enjoying the overall fit/feel of the Edea skate outside of the arch issue that I hope can be resolved with maybe a different insole. I've read you don't break in Edea's, and it's about adapting to them instead.

I guess I'm still wondering if I feel like I'm skating more on my toes because of a drastic change to blade placement, or the possibly higher heel is making me instinctively put more pressure on my toes to compensate?
 

tstop4me

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 2, 2015
Country
United-States
I guess I'm still wondering if I feel like I'm skating more on my toes because of a drastic change to blade placement, or the possibly higher heel is making me instinctively put more pressure on my toes to compensate?
(a) Again, more details about your blade mounts would help assess how drastic a change in blade placement you're talking about.

(b) The higher heel is not making you instinctively put more pressure on your toes to compensate. The higher heel causes more pressure to be exerted on your toes. You need to shift your weight back to compensate.
 

WhateverWorks

Spectator
Joined
Aug 10, 2019
The old skates had the blades literally a cm or so past the front edge of the skate, with 2-3 cm's gap between the back heel. The person who saw the skates was shocked I was able to skate on them, and said it looked like a speed skater had mounted the blades. The new skates have the correct size blade with it mounted with less than a cm room from front and back of the blades. In what seems like a much more natural placement.

I hadn't skated competitively (or really at all) in 15 years, but had enough muscle memory to land the doubles I had the courage to try after a week back on the ice in old boots. That said, as a male skater in my 30's I wonder how quickly my mind/body connection can pick up any drastic changes that would alter balance. I'd suspect the 12 year old version of myself could adapt quickly, but regardless of my skating ability in past it's a lot harder to adjust to anything after 25ish, let alone 30.
 

WhateverWorks

Spectator
Joined
Aug 10, 2019
(b) The higher heel is not making you instinctively put more pressure on your toes to compensate. The higher heel causes more pressure to be exerted on your toes. You need to shift your weight back to compensate.

This is really good information. And, definitely seems to be my struggle. The higher heel, and blades further back together really seem to be working simultaneously to make it feel like I'm more on my toes.

I'm wondering if different inserts could make the heel feel lower, or the toes higher to adjust foot pressure. Or, if moving blades forward even 1cm could work.
 

tstop4me

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 2, 2015
Country
United-States
The old skates had the blades literally a cm or so past the front edge of the skate, with 2-3 cm's gap between the back heel. The person who saw the skates was shocked I was able to skate on them, and said it looked like a speed skater had mounted the blades. The new skates have the correct size blade with it mounted with less than a cm room from front and back of the blades. In what seems like a much more natural placement.
With respect to your old mount, all I can say is: "Good Grief, Charlie Brown!" Amazing you lived to tell this tale.

With respect to your new mount, if you have about slightly less than a cm clearance front and back, your blade is way too short according to Edea's recommendations; see: https://ice.edeaskates.com/en/tech-info/blade-assembly/choosing-the-correct-blade-size/
 

WhateverWorks

Spectator
Joined
Aug 10, 2019
Did a horrible job describing current placement. It fits the Edea measurements. I got the craziest look from the guy who did my new skates when he saw the blade placement of the old pair. Along with the blades having been warn down to the point that the rocker was all but gone. Lots of changes all at once.
 

tstop4me

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 2, 2015
Country
United-States
Follow-up. Gold Seals come in 1/4" increments. A 1/4" increment is equal to a 6.4 mm increment (rounded to nearest tenth of a mm). According to Edea, the target blade length should have zero clearance front and back. Assuming worst case, you got one size too small, that would leave you 3.2 mm clearance front and back, if you mount the blade with equal clearance front and back.

Now suppose more realistically that the closest blade size is 2 mm longer than target length, so you step down one size, 4.4 mm shorter than target length. That would leave only 2.2 mm clearance front and back.

<<Disregard then. I wrote this while you were responding with your last post.>>
 

Elija

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 25, 2019
I had the exact same two problems when I switched to Edea. The arch issue does go away after a while. My arches were in so much pain at first, but now they're ok. I find often they hurt a bit when I warm up but after that it's fine. I have quite high arches and the stock insoles have no support, so have just purchased superfeet - happy to let you know how those go once I've skated in them if you're interested.

Also had the issue of rocking up on my toes a lot (still do a bit with spins). I think in my case it's because me previous skates were almost three sizes too big - ridiculous, don't know what that fitter was thinking. The rocker was also worn way down and the heel was lower than either of the Edeas I've had. It all just takes a bit of adjusting, but once you get used to them it gets better! I'm hoping with the superfeet my skating won't be as scratchy as hopefully my weight will be more evenly balanced with the extra arch support.
 

twirlingblades

Medalist
Joined
Apr 2, 2016
Switching to Edea Skates. Insoles, &amp; blade placement questions!

I have Edeas (had 3 pairs of Concertos before switching to Chorus) and I never use the given insoles because I think they are too thin. I use Dr Scholls. They are thicker and squishy. When I got my first pair (10+ years ago) I had really bad arch pain but it went away after I put in different insoles.
 

Sam L

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Risport also has thin soles like Edea and I absolutely love these thin soles.
 

WhateverWorks

Spectator
Joined
Aug 10, 2019
I decided to order like 4 different pairs of insoles to try out, and a dr. scholls arch support pad I saw recommended. The insoles that came with the skate I had a custom build arch melded into them, but perhaps it's either too aggressive or not aggressive enough. Hoping one of the arches will make skating longer than 10 minutes at a time possible, and if I can do that perhaps I can adjust to the elevated heel of Edea skates, and a blade placement that is considered "normal." Worst case scenario I can eventually try and have blade moved forward a few mm as a very last resort. I'd try Harlick's if I hadn't already invested as much as I did into Edea's, and wasn't so incredibly stubborn to make them work.

The blades are 10 3/4'' on a 285mm boot. With blade mount maybe a few mm at most from the front. with slightly larger gap of just a couple mm space at the heel.

A ton of incredibly helpful advice on this forum, and it's all very appreciated. It's relieving to know that these issues aren't rare, and can be fixed.

I wish this type of forum existed in early 2000's (or if it did - I wish I was aware of it) when I was competitive as a teen.
 

Bill S

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 31, 2019
Country
United-States
A little OT but since you were wondering about it...

Skaters used Internet news groups back in the early 2000s. They were text-only but covered MANY of the same kinds of questions as found in current skating forums. The newsgroup rec.sport.skating.ice.recreational was where skaters "hung out" and discussed equipment, skills, and other topics.

There are archives around where you can still read the old posts. However when moderation ceased, nothing but spam took over the once-noble newsgroups.
 
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