The Tutberidze Effect | Page 16 | Golden Skate

The Tutberidze Effect

RobinA

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
1. Maybe I misunderstood you; but can you inform us how they are "holding off" puberty? You must know something that everyone else doesn't.

2. What proof do you have that these girls are starving themselves? Are you a doctor and have you personally evaluated them? You should know that not every person is built the same way. Being short and light does not automatically mean one is anorexic. You are body shaming these girls by saying that they are starving themselves. You should not be making baseless claims about someone's health and appearance, as they are hurtful and offensive.

3. Have you seen Elizaveta Tuktamysheva's gorgeous 4T? Is she starving herself also and going through puberty?

4. The ladies quad revolution has just barely started. That has opened the door for many skaters now - younger and older - to learn and master these jumps. The fact that Tuktamysheva is now landing quads is proof of that. None of this would have seemed conceivable a few years ago.

5. What proof do you have that these girls are endangering their healths by trying these difficult jumps? Nobody knows what long-term health effects, if any, it will have on them. Also, skaters have gotten injured by doing 'only' triples. Should they stop trying triples because they are endangering their healths?

I'm not saying any one person is is doing this or that to continue to be able to do quads past the point where norms of development would suggest that she should have encountered puberty. Disordered eating is rampant in figure skating, and I refer you to the many skaters who have not only spoken out about this but who have had their careers ended by it. Disordered eating is rampant BECAUSE IT IS REWARDED, and increasingly so. All these quads, maybe by girls who are naturally late-blooming and girlish well into their teens, only serve to increase the rewards for Ladies who are not naturally late-blooming and learn the well known fact that restricted eating can mitigate some of the effects of puberty.
 

Big Deal

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
There are good and bad facts about Tutberidze's camp.
Good:
Fantastic and in every ways prematured skating with incredible jumps in a very early age (14-15 years old)
Bad:
NONE of them "survives" the age of 17. Young schoolgirls are in tears pssing their successes and losing it all. Sad. Sad. Sad.
And I do not think that is good to anybody (except Tutberidze and the propaganda machine behind, who supports this.)
It is killing the sport in some ways, when you know that none of these athletes will be visible when they reach their prime time and "normal" human body.
 

Mirunna

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 12, 2009
I am a human doctor.
May I ask you someething: Would you like to seee your own daughter looking like the (otherwise fantastic) Russian Champion Scherbakova??? Her gorgeous head looks big compare to her tiny, anorexial body. You also would hate her coach when she will be 17, still starving and losing all her success and you haave to py aa lots of money for aa pdychologist how to cope with that with an already non-self-secured teenager? Have you seen the eyes and tears of Zagitova (17 years old) being last in GPF final nd reealizing that she will never have a future with the elementary schoolgirls ahead of her? Especially when she announced that at the Gala that she is unable to perform ( I am having a bad feeling that we will not see her anymore in big competitions). Remember Medvedieva' tears in Pyeongchang, when she reealized the same? Remember Lipnitskaya, who was a start 1 year when she was 15 and retired after her many fiasco?

No, I would NEVER let my daughter to be trained by this team as a responsible father.

A very strong message. Not to mention the number of girls going through the same thing without achieving at least the success of being on top for 1 or 2 years. From the girls coming from Eteri's group, to me, only Evgenia managed to survive, let's say, the disappointment and body changes, in a healthy manner. Other than Evgenia, who also had and still has her share of struggles, is any other skater coming from Eteri's group with a successful career past 18 years old? It is worrisome especially after the recent struggles with eating disorders (Julia is the most recent case I remember).
 

nussnacker

one and only
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 16, 2019
I am a human doctor.
May I ask you someething: Would you like to see your own daughter looking like the (otherwise fantastic) Russian Champion Scherbakova??? Her gorgeous head looks big compare to her tiny, anorexial body.

I would never want my daughter to be treated by a human doctor like you, that’s for sure.
People can be small and skinny, if it’s in their genes, and a bodyshaming doctor is the last thing any girl needs.
If your daughter remains small and skinny, and will not be able to gain weight, a “reponsible father” like you will tell her off that she can’t grow boobs and tell her that “her head looks big compared to her tiny anorexical body” ??? Wow! What a great father!
 

Big Deal

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
You must be Russian if you think that my post was about THIS..... OR you do not have any children doing sport like myself:(
As a parent you do NOT want to have a depressed and physically, emotionally destroyed 17-18 years old son/daughter to start his/her own life as a victim of an unpersonalised propaganda "system"
 

nussnacker

one and only
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 16, 2019
You must be Russian if you think that my post was about THIS..... OR you do not have any children doing sport like myself:(
As a parent you do NOT want to have a depressed and physically, emotionally destroyed 17-18 years old son/daughter to start his/her own life.

No one wants their kids or be destroyed physically or emotionally.
But as a doctor, you shouldn’t assume that’s happening to Anna, because you don’t know that.
 

DizzyFrenchie

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 9, 2019
"I am a human doctor."
Are you?
And as a human doctor, you are diagnosing anorexia with a great athlete? I cannot imagine you ignore what is mental anorexia?
Loving ballet, I know two of the greatest ballet schools, not encouraging anorexia at all (and attentive to any loss of weight), had a pupil facing it, both girls saw their dancing dwindle, both schools gave them second, third chances... expecting they could heal, they didn't, the Paris Opera School pupil had to drop off but survived; and the Bolshoi School had one, who unfortunately died, her parents being in denial and refusing any medical care.
Anna Scherbakova may have some light... Well, I won't mention the condition, it is not in the forum rules, anyway at this level it is not even a condition, and has nothing to do with an eating disorder. She would look quite different, particularly on her skates, should she be in any way anorexic.
They are fed at their school too, a balanced diet, of course with lots of proteins, a lot of carbohydrates at the right moments, and much less fat, and have already spoken of what they did : no late dinner, no sweets. But in no way starving!
And had I a (Russian) daughter (or son, in fact) of 8 to 18, wishing to skate professionally, and gifted, I would do exactly as Adam Rippon said he would do : try to get her admitted in Tutberidze team. Though there might be an incompatibility (as there happened to be with Evguenia Medvedeva), this would be the best place to improve, and a safe one too.
Of course any world-level sports (or art, such as ballet) means late puberty (and so what? Early puberty means higher risk of breast cancer) and risk of injury, world-class athletes being pionneers in sports medicine, after whom much is cleared for followers; and great sports people have such a grit, as to make little of injuries when compared to going ahead in their sports. But this is the same everywhere, and in every sport.
As to Alina Zagitova, every time she skates under her level we hear the same meme. Alina Zagitova is a wonderful skater, well balanced mentally, by the way her puberty seems not to have been delayed, and though this season she might not hope any gold medal, or even be selected for European Championships or Worlds, because she doesn't have yet ultra-C elements, I hope well she may help you change the yearly meme, in 2018 Eteri Tutberidze couldn't keep girls passed 15, last season it was passed 16, now it was passed 17... Well, next year, bet it will be 18. ;-)
 

KOBOT37

Match Penalty
Joined
Dec 9, 2019
"Psychologically destroyed" Zagitova has won everything there is to win, has money, fame, endless career choices (including continuing competing), love from entire nation and experience from both winning and losing.

I wish my daughter was 'destroyed' like that too.

and for god's sake, She lost a final of Grand Prix, meaning she so far, is 6th best skater in the world, most hard working athletes who spend their entire lifetime working hard on their skills will never ever reach top 10 of their respective sport.

and by the way, how is Samadurova doing ? last I checked her results detoriated much worse than these of Alina, is that Also Eteri's fault? Eunsoo? Eteri destroyed her too?

Sometimes I think 3As are some sore losers who are beating only Alina, Right now there is nobody, "physically and psychologically destroyed " or not,Eteri's Student or not, who has realistic shots at beating them. "Destroyed" Alina has shown that she is capable of beating everyone else if she skates clean and she has skated both of her program clean this season, she still has her jumps and most important competition of the season is still Ahead.

Alina isn't destroyed, she simple, cant beat 3 amazing hungry athletes at their prime,while herself being post her prime conditions (if you think there are many athletes who are capable of being in top shope for 3 seasons in a raw, you are dead-wrong) not becasue she forgot how to skate and can't do all her jumps, simply because they are better right now.

Leave that girl alone for god's sake.

P.S and every, absolutely every single professional sport (yes, chess included) is horrible for your health(both mental and physical), if you get destroyed after losing and don't want to harm your body, as Memo Heredia said it-go and play Voleybol on the beach, that is healthy.
 

Decoder

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 5, 2019
I am a human doctor.
May I ask you something: Would you like to see your own daughter looking like the (otherwise fantastic) Russian Champion Scherbakova??? Her gorgeous head looks big compare to her tiny, anorexial body. You also would hate her coach when she will be 17, still starving and losing all her success and you have to pay a lots of money for a psychologist how to cope with that with an already non-self-secured teenager? Have you seen the eyes and tears of Zagitova (17 years old) being last in GPF final and realizing that she will never have a future with the elementary schoolgirls ahead of her? Especially when she announced that at the Gala that she is unable to perform ( I am having a bad feeling that we will not see her anymore in big competitions). Remember Medvedieva's tears in Pyeongchang, when she realized the same? Remember Lipnitskaya, who was a star for 1 year when she was 15 and retired after her many fiasco? Remember Sotnikova, who "helped out" Russia in Sochi when the hoped Champion Lipnitskaya failed to win? She never been able to win anything ever before and after in Senior level and forced to retire avoiding further "blame" as an "Olympic Champion"...

Have you seen the empty expression of Tutberidze when it is all happening with her "former star" pupils because of the new ones? She seems to know it: One is leaving another one is coming in every maximum 2 years period.

No, I would NEVER let my daughter to be trained by this team as a responsible father.

How do you know Anna is not happy? How do you know she will hate her coach when she is 17? How do you ..., well, you have already made a list of evil things Eteri has done to her students.

I'd be happy to send my kids to Eteri if my kids want to skate and if I am privileged to have Eteri agree and accept my kids. I have been watching Eteri girls skating, laughing, happily chatting, travelling around, and of course crying. In my eyes, the girls are having a real and wonderful life. Not every boy/girl can be as lucky as those girls.
 

Fluture

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 26, 2018
I am a human doctor.
May I ask you something: Would you like to see your own daughter looking like the (otherwise fantastic) Russian Champion Scherbakova??? Her gorgeous head looks big compare to her tiny, anorexial body. You also would hate her coach when she will be 17, still starving and losing all her success and you have to pay a lots of money for a psychologist how to cope with that with an already non-self-secured teenager?
No, I would NEVER let my daughter to be trained by this team as a responsible father.

I would never send my kids to Eteri. But then again, I‘d make sure to keep them even farer away from a “human doctor“ that diagnoses serious illnesses of minors he doesn‘t even know on the internet. I don’t care about any point you‘re trying to make, you just can‘t do that. They are children and no one should be allowed to talk about them like that. There are ways to raise concern and this is most certainly not one of them. Just no. No responsible doctor would talk like that on a public forum.
 

katymay

Medalist
Joined
Mar 7, 2006
I am a human doctor.
May I ask you something: Would you like to see your own daughter looking like the (otherwise fantastic) Russian Champion Scherbakova??? Her gorgeous head looks big compare to her tiny, anorexial body. You also would hate her coach when she will be 17, still starving and losing all her success and you have to pay a lots of money for a psychologist how to cope with that with an already non-self-secured teenager? Have you seen the eyes and tears of Zagitova (17 years old) being last in GPF final and realizing that she will never have a future with the elementary schoolgirls ahead of her? Especially when she announced that at the Gala that she is unable to perform ( I am having a bad feeling that we will not see her anymore in big competitions). Remember Medvedieva's tears in Pyeongchang, when she realized the same? Remember Lipnitskaya, who was a star for 1 year when she was 15 and retired after her many fiasco? Remember Sotnikova, who "helped out" Russia in Sochi when the hoped Champion Lipnitskaya failed to win? She never been able to win anything ever before and after in Senior level and forced to retire avoiding further "blame" as an "Olympic Champion"...

Have you seen the empty expression of Tutberidze when it is all happening with her "former star" pupils because of the new ones? She seems to know it: One is leaving another one is coming in every maximum 2 years period.

No, I would NEVER let my daughter to be trained by this team as a responsible father.

Anna has always been slight, it is her genetics. And FYI, she is filling out exactly as she should given her genetics.
AND, to state this for the millioneth time: Almost ALL skaters peak at 14-16, and very few enjoy over a few years at the top. Not with the high degree of tech required to compete in today's jumping environment. Jumps erode as a skater ages, even if their body type remains unchanged. There are exceptions, but not many.
 

Scott512

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2014
How do you know Anna is not happy? How do you know she will hate her coach when she is 17? How do you ..., well, you have already made a list of evil things Eteri has done to her students.

I'd be happy to send my kids to Eteri if my kids want to skate and if I am privileged to have Eteri agree and accept my kids. I have been watching Eteri girls skating, laughing, happily chatting, travelling around, and of course crying. In my eyes, the girls are having a real and wonderful life. Not every boy/girl can be as lucky as those girls.
Great post. Especially a how happy these amazing girls are there always smiling whether they finish first second or third. They always generous to each other and to the public

Anna has always been slight, it is her genetics. And FYI, she is filling out exactly as she should given her genetics.
AND, to state this for the millioneth time: Almost ALL skaters peak at 14-16, and very few enjoy over a few years at the top. Not with the high degree of tech required to compete in today's jumping environment. Jumps erode as a skater ages, even if their body type remains unchanged. There are exceptions, but not many.

True.
 

waltzjump2

Rinkside
Joined
Nov 8, 2019
Anna has always been slight, it is her genetics. And FYI, she is filling out exactly as she should given her genetics.
AND, to state this for the millioneth time: Almost ALL skaters peak at 14-16, and very few enjoy over a few years at the top. Not with the high degree of tech required to compete in today's jumping environment. Jumps erode as a skater ages, even if their body type remains unchanged. There are exceptions, but not many.

This peaking very young is due in part by technique, though. It’s not just a random occurrence. I really do think that it is possible to teach high-level jumps and such in a sustainable manner. It may not be as brilliantly consistent or fast, but I think it is possible and this peaking at 15 doesn’t have to be this way. No matter what anyone thinks about this (recent, because it is a recent thing) occurrence and Tutberize’s role in it, I think it is possible to “push the envelope” in a sustainable way, but that isn’t what’s being focused on right now.

also— yes jumping gets harder when one gets older because jumping is stressful on the body, regardless of physical changes, but in terms of technique failing as bodies change, which certainly happens frequently from Tutberidze’s skaters, it’s more than just that.

Also I’m not saying this is only a Tutberidze thing, and please let me know if this is too critical sounding for this thread.
 

DizzyFrenchie

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 9, 2019
I do believe Team Tutberidze aims to go on coaching skaters as they mature. They didn't neglect or push away Evguenia Medvedeva, though with her character and type of skating, I tend to think (ignorant as I am) she made the right choice in heading to Toronto.
It may be a season relatively off- to Alina Zagitova, from what she said I understand this is what the coaches proposed her, yet she will probably be back very strong next year, still with her astonishing skating skills (I see only Yuzuru Hanyu with better ones, maybe next year Alena Kostornaia will reach this level?), etc, and with ultra-C jumps. The goal being, the top for 2022 Olympic games, with a medal, why not gold. Then she may retire, not before, I am convinced of it. Or not. After all she will be only 19.
 

Mirunna

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 12, 2009
What many people forget (or are unaware of), Julia Lipnitskaya was on a strict diet of protein powder before Sochi Olympics (was basically starving herself) because even a small amount of extra weight would affect her jumps.

“I have never seen anything like it,” said Tutberidze. “She can practically not eat anything. When she has to lose weight, all she eats is powdered nutrients, which give her energy. But she manages, thank God. She is intensely driven.” (https://sochi2014.rbth.com/yulia_lipnitskaya_russias_golden_girl)

We all know how that ended for Julia: obviously, with an eating disorder. So, the conclusion is that having such competition among the group may lead to serious consequences if the adults involved are not careful. Based on Julia's experience, the current trend of ladies skating (one year at the top, then yesterday's news), the fact that quads will not be as easy in girl going through puberty and the unbelievable competition among Eteri's group I think it is reasonably to say that potential eating disorders are a sensible issue here. And I don't know if it's treated accordingly. Starving may delay the onset of the physical changes related to puberty. I have no idea if the girls are starving themselves, but I don't blindly buy the "naturally thin - genetics" explanation, especially after the whole Julia mess. Time will tell.
 

Scott512

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2014
Anna has always been slight, it is her genetics. And FYI, she is filling out exactly as she should given her genetics.
AND, to state this for the millioneth time: Almost ALL skaters peak at 14-16, and very few enjoy over a few years at the top. Not with the high degree of tech required to compete in today's jumping environment. Jumps erode as a skater ages, even if their body type remains unchanged. There are exceptions, but not many.

Exactly. Anna is like a Bolshoi ballerina on skates! and I've never seen a beefy ballerina; ) Anna as you pointed out is naturally very slender like a ballerina.
 

Artemisa

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 15, 2017
Exactly. Anna is like a Bolshoi ballerina on skates! and I've never seen a beefy ballerina; ) Anna as you pointed out is naturally very slender like a ballerina.

There is slender and there is to slender ... Trusova is slender and doesn't give the same perception that scherbakova ... even if genetics is important people have a normal( or proximal to a normal) BMC ... I don't know if she is anoretic or not ( I hope not and that her team always put her health first) but I would like to have one or two extra pounds because she looks like glass .. so i get the worry
 

katymay

Medalist
Joined
Mar 7, 2006
There is slender and there is to slender ... Trusova is slender and doesn't give the same perception that scherbakova ... even if genetics is important people have a normal( or proximal to a normal) BMC ... I don't know if she is anoretic or not ( I hope not and that her team always put her health first) but I would like to have one or two extra pounds because she looks like glass .. so i get the worry

Trusova has recently undergone a growth spurt (I was almost shocked to notice that she is taller then Anna, and almost as tall as Alina) so she appears slender. In fact, she is very muscular, but lucky to have narrow hips and shoulders which allows her to still have fast rotation. Still, with her growth and puberty, the 3L 3Loop isn't as easy as it used to be for her, so she has made adjustments. (3L3T). She also has to muscle her jumps, more than the other two girls. Like Anna, she has filled out in a normal and natural way for a small boned, petite girl.
 
Top