The Tutberidze Effect | Page 5 | Golden Skate

The Tutberidze Effect

Sugar Coated

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Apr 20, 2018
The myelin sheath keep developing till 30yo. Does that mean that people before 30 are not enough developed, and people after 30 are? Of course that 26yo person is probably more mature that 16yo. But that doeasn't mean that some 16yo can't be a 'mature' person too, because it already has all important ingridiens to be.

I'm not a neuroscientist. But from my understanding, the myelin sheath is part of the central nervous system. It is important for helping to send electrical impulses. Its the fatty insulation that surrounds all nerves throughout the body. But yes, there is an argument to be made that people are still developing neurologically as thy reach their 30s. In fact, its pretty well established that the brain is still developing into the mid-late 20s.

This is different than making decisions about "legal" adulthood. Is someone really developmentally that different the day before their 18th birthday? No. But there needs to be a cutoff somewhere for legal reasons and it can be somewhat arbitrary. Whether this is a good age to make that determination is a different argument and a lot of science would actually say it should be early 20s. We can measure some aspects of cognitive abilities through neuropsychological testing and imaging. And the cognitive abilities of someone at age 16 is different than at the age of 26 in a meaningful way. There may be small differences between someone at age 26 and 30 but it likely isn't enough to be meaningful.
 

Baron Vladimir

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Dec 18, 2014
You can't measure someone's cognitive abilities based on the picture of the brain tho. Cause brain is just a supstrate. And 16yo have enough developed supstrat to function as 26yo. The point is that in todays society most of the 16yo just don't have an urge to use brain functions 26yo are using. That doesn't mean they can't, nor 'average difference' in their brain functioning can be used as an ultimate argument of differences between individuals. And while i enjoy this kind of conversations a lot, we are too much time off the topic here :slink:
 

Edwin

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Jan 5, 2019
Sambo-70 is an educational institution where many sports are practiced.

I wouldn't be surprised at all they maintain good academic contacts with the Moscow higher education facilities and universities' sports, medical, pedagogic, psychological and applied human science faculties.

So perhaps the Tutberidze Effect might even be studied at an academic level? To get deeper to the core on how best to safely train children to achieve maximum results, ensure their development and health, guarantee personal satisfaction?
 

dante

a dark lord
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there needs to be a cutoff somewhere for legal reasons and it can be somewhat arbitrary. Whether this is a good age to make that determination is a different argument and a lot of science would actually say it should be early 20s.

So, at what age should they take a risk and learn triples?
 

flanker

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If only someone would have told Mozart that he just can't compose an opera at the age of twelve, because he can't have proper cognitive abilities...
 

Alex65

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So, at what age should they take a risk and learn triples?

Based on the above medical information, this should not be earlier than 20, but better 26 years old, but even better if never.(since the human brain continues to develop throughout life, I can conclude that at any age a person cannot be considered a fully and finally formed personality) Did I understand this correctly?
 

Edwin

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Interestingly, Aleksey Zheleznyakov said in the latest issue of Moskovskiy Figurist "With the help of choreography you can develop the necessary qualities in figure skaters. The group of Tutberidze doesn't have exhausting PE anymore"?

Also Inna Goncharenko has even more interesting things to say in relation to the Tutberidze Effect: "A psychological breakthrough was made possible thanks to the group of Eteri Tutberidze, which proved that it is possible and necessary to start learning quads early", which supports my thesis.

Very worthwhile reading these thought provoking articles. Which will take me a while to process and comprehend. But perhaps a native Russian speaker can summarize more quickly, please?
 

Orlov

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Jun 19, 2018
Interestingly, Aleksey Zheleznyakov said in the latest issue of Moskovskiy Figurist "With the help of choreography you can develop the necessary qualities in figure skaters. The group of Tutberidze doesn't have exhausting PE anymore"?

Also Inna Goncharova has even more interesting things to say in relation to the Tutberidze Effect: "A psychological breakthrough was made possible thanks to the group of Eteri Tutberidze, which proved that it is possible and necessary to start learning quads early", which supports my thesis.

Very worthwhile reading these thought provoking articles. Which will take me a while to process and comprehend. But perhaps a native Russian speaker can summarize more quickly, please?

Very interesting article by Zhelyaznyakov.
 

Edwin

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Very interesting article by Zhelyaznyakov.

Indeed, and it shows his different views on the Tutberidze Effect because he approaches it from his profession: as a dancer and teaching dance, applying choreography.

But this is all Moscow speaking, if you'd ask Prof. Mishin, who lectures at Lesgaft University in Sankt Peterburg, he'd probably tell and support a different principle.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
If only someone would have told Mozart that he just can't compose an opera at the age of twelve, because he can't have proper cognitive abilities...

I look at it a little differently. Yes, Mozart was a child prodigy who did amazing things in his youth. But the compositions of his maturity were even better.

Will the "Eteri Effect" eventually show that in figure skating you peak at 14 and it's all downhill from there?

I would be taken aback if, in football for instance, a team of 15-year-old schoolboys entered the world cup competition and beat up on all the men's national teams (be their brains ever so well-formatted).
 
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Edwin

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I look at it a little differently. Yes, Mozart was a child prodigy who did amazing things in his youth. But the compositions of his maturity were even better.

Will the "Eteri Effect" eventually show that in figure skating you peak at 14 and it's ll downhill from there?

I would be taken aback if, in football for instance, a team of 15-year-old schoolboys entered the world cup competition and beat up on all the men's national teams (be their brains ever so well-formatted).

LOL, do you even needs brains in US football?

But what about chess, here we have had quite some child prodigies, like Judit Polgar . Or what about this 10 year old composer, violinist, pianist, singer, Alma Deutscher, like here in this interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3YlcHyF9dc. But these children might be considered 'enfants sauvage' for their untameable talents were so extraordinary.

The skaters taking part in the Tutberidze Experiment are ordinary talented children for the most part, they need to work to get their stuff done.
 

Alex65

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Daniil Samsonov's answer in this interview:

- How has your life changed after the transition to Tutberidze?
- It felt like I won the lottery.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Edwin said:
]LOL, do you even needs brains in US football?

About the same as in figure skating -- or most any sport -- I would say. ;)

... what about this 10 year old composer, violinist, pianist, singer, Alma Deutscher, like here in this interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3YlcHyF9dc. ...

This is what I would hope. That this 10-year-old genius would become even better as a composer, violinist, pianist and singer at age 11. And better yet at 12.

... and we have Alina Zagitova, who is the best example so far of a sportsperson tremendously improved under the Tutberidze Effect, had excellent results and is currently at the peak of her powers.

Is she currently "at the peak of her powers?" Or was she at the peak of her powers two years ago when she won everything in sight and capped it off with the Olympic gold medal? The next year (age 16), did she have a somewhat harder time of it? Will she still rule the world in the coming season, at 17 -- or will she be overtaken by the Trusova /Shcherbakova gang?

This is what would be cool, to me. You hook up with Tutberidze and learn a quad at 13. Then at 17 you tackle a quint. Then at 21 you master a six-relvolution jump. Onward and Upward! :yes:
 
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flanker

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Feb 10, 2018
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I look at it a little differently. Yes, Mozart was a child prodigy who did amazing things in his youth. But the compositions of his maturity were even better.

Will the "Eteri Effect" eventually show that in figure skating you peak at 14 and it's all downhill from there?

I would be taken aback if, in football for instance, a team of 15-year-old schoolboys entered the world cup competition and beat up on all the men's national teams (be their brains ever so well-formatted).

Alina was good at 14 (better than most would be at 20) but it wasn't her peak, she is still going up and getting better. Zhenya also wasn't at her peak at 14 and I have no fear about 3A in thhat too. Collective and contact sports are different thing, yet e. g. in tennis there were also succesful players both in men and women before adulthood. And just several days ago 13 y.o. ukrainian boy won European diving championship. The fact that Eteri's underage girls are winning everything is in fact not so solitary.
 

flanker

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Feb 10, 2018
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Czech-Republic

Quote:
"The press has lately written a lot about the harsh working methods of Eteri Tutberidze. I can say that we all work hard, it’s just that not everyone gets a result like hers. Eteri managed to find such a mechanism of work when children come to the ice every day and fight. They fight for the elements, for her attention, fight with themselves and among themselves."

Everything important in the nutshell.

And I like this as well:
"There are always some specific people who made a breakthrough and were the first to go into space. But, before becoming a world-famous trainer, Eteri at the beginning of her coaching career worked with children for whom figure skating was a leisure, took those who were already expelled from sports schools as unsuitable.
These were ordinary children, not the most talented, not the most daring, who needed to be persuaded to become bold and talented. She does it now."
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Alina was good at 14 (better than most would be at 20) but it wasn't her peak ...

True; Alina was something of a late bloomer by modern Eteri standards.

Although at 14 she won the Junior Grand Prix Final and Junior Wolds, scoring over 200 points, so she wasn't that far behind the curve.

And just several days ago 13 y.o. ukrainian boy won European diving championship

I'm all for it! :rock: I just hope that at 15 he is even better, not worse.
 
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