- Joined
- Jun 19, 2018
I don't even talk about Tursynbaeva who is 19yo because people always point her child's body.
This is body shaming. This is not good.
I don't even talk about Tursynbaeva who is 19yo because people always point her child's body.
This is body shaming. This is not good.
This is body shaming. This is not good.
Speaking of Team Tutberidze effect. ... Even some Russian coaches were more than happy to say that Eteri is a children's coach.
Methods. Control of weight is important in sport but seems like everything turn around weight in Russia. For many sports. I've watched the documentary about rythmic gymnastics in Russia "Winner takes it all". Irina Viner said to Alina Kabaeva that she had to lose 3kg in three days. So the girl just drunk water during three days. And she ditched a girl because she was eating "too much" and couldn't lose 3kg. It doesn't seem really healthy and the level of training is hard for athletes. But i don't know how it works in NA or Asia. North america's "methods" seems healthier but it's not like there is never skaters with eating disorders or mental illness (eg: Rippon, Gold, Daleman). Or coaches who never have injured skaters (iirc in olympic season, Tursynbaeva, Cha, Daleman, Hanyu got injuries. And they had to train and compete with them).
So i would like less drastic methods but i'm not either sure that any skater would be healthier outside Russia or Tutberidze's camp.
Sport, especially figure skating, is hard.
Speaking of Team Tutberidze effect. I don't know if it's a goal for that team but i think that making Zagitova stay relevant for the next three years would be a biggest victory for team Tutberidze than making Trusova and Scherbakova win everything with quads for the next 2 years. After Zagitova's bad free skated at nats and euros, people whom even some Russian coaches were more than happy to say that Eteri is a children's coach. That past 16 yo everything disappear and Zagitova was finished. The gold at worlds was a good slap in the face but imo a successful 19yo Zagitova would be more convincing. If she doesn't get a quad, maybe Eteri will need to politically protect her (If she really wants it. But seems like she doesn't want to protect anyone). As not everyone understand that when a skater doesn't get spots or titles it's not necessary because she became worse, but because the next generation is better.
I don't even talk about Tursynbaeva who is 19yo because people always point her child's body.
But i guess that winning as much as possible is more important than having successful past 18yo.
The change that i would like to happens in that camp is more importance given to basics. At this state it seems like the better option would be a deal between Panova (or Kostornaya's former coach) and Eteri. Panova sends her most promising 12yo/13yo with nice SS and jumps to Eteri. And Eteri gives them that competitive mind and programs that can score super high.
And of course another choreographer. Because obviously Daniil has too much work and those skaters needs fresh ideas.
Just commenting here to say that I was visiting the first pages of Marin Honda‘s fan page today. And people there were very concerned for her when she was training quads and 3A at age 11, 12. Same thing happens for Alysa Liu, Stephen Gogolev... People being worried for these kids is not a unique thing and it‘s certainly not only related to Eteri girls. So, please don‘t make it seem that way. That‘s all I‘m gonna say about this.
That (whether future events bear it out or not) is my understanding of what is meant by "the Tutberidze Effect" as in the title of this thread. Will the current trend in figure skating expose the sport as an activity that only children can excel at? If so, is the international figure skating establishment OK with that, or will it do something about it?
For instance, if it turns out that any well-trained 13-year-old can learn to do quads, but older ladies can't, the ISU could change the scoring rules to put less emphasis on rotational jumps. Would this be a good idea, or should we just let the chips fall where they may?
No data. Exactly why i said "seems healthier" and no "is healthier". Because i never ear that coaches use tough methods to make skaters lose weight for example.Seems healthier? Does data prove it?*
About Tursynbayeva, I don't remember people would talk about her "child's body" when she was with Orser, now it is like a stigma. "She has child's body, that's why she is worlds silver medalist." It always amazes me how "simple" it is.
*
It could be also interresting to compare russian ladies with the rest of the Europe. I think that we can say that top european ladies after Russians are now Carolina Kostner, Loena Hendrickx, Viveca Lindfors and Nicole Schott. and all four of them sufferend from injuries the last season, missed competitions:
Carolina whole season, though in her age - it's not "age shaming", it is understandable that health problems will rise in top sport with age.
Loena - missed Euros due to back injury, her performance in worlds was affected by it.
Viveca - missed worlds due to training injury after winning bronze in euros.
Nicole - knee injury affected her performance both in euros and worlds this season.
So, when speaking about health issues, you should consider that in top sport there is always risk and you even don't need to train quads and be "poor russian girl treated like a tool by her evil coaches."
Would this be a good idea, or should we just let the chips fall where they may?
No data. Exactly why i said "seems healthier" and no "is healthier". Because i never ear that coaches use tough methods to make skaters lose weight for example.
But you will remark that i also said that there is cases of eating disorders, mental illness, injuries in North America training camps. So it's not like i said Russia is hell and the rest of world is heaven. And i said that sport, especially figure skating is hard. So exactly the same thing that you're saying in the last paragrapgh.
I guess it depends that if we see 15yo/16yo (the age at what most top skaters turn senior) like children. Will we see Kostornaya like a child when she will compete in senior at 16yo this season? Because i think it is only a problem in seniors. 13yo will always compete in juniors. If it's an issue that a top 13yo who compete in juniors score higher than a top 18 yo who compete in seniors, well ISU can reduce the number of elements to make juniors score lower.That (whether future events bear it out or not) is my understanding of what is meant by "the Tutberidze Effect" as in the title of this thread. Will the current trend in figure skating expose the sport as an activity that only children can excel at? If so, is the international figure skating establishment OK with that, or will it do something about it?
For instance, if it turns out that any well-trained 13-year-old can learn to do quads, but older ladies can't, the ISU could change the scoring rules to put less emphasis on rotational jumps. Would this be a good idea, or should we just let the chips fall where they may?
.....
Speaking of Team Tutberidze effect. I don't know if it's a goal for that team but i think that making Zagitova stay relevant for the next three years would be a biggest victory for team Tutberidze than making Trusova and Scherbakova win everything with quads for the next 2 years. .....
I want to argue with that. It will certainly be wonderful if Alina can successfully participate in the struggle for victory in the coming years for as long as she herself wants. However, I think the most important goal of the Khrustalny team should be just the development and preservation of the technical superiority of Shcherbakova, Trusova (and Kostornaya if she follows them) in the next few years. These young girls with their quads have risen to the highest level of technical excellence, ahead of the previous generation of girls, and I do not see the next generation being able to far surpass Trusova or Shcherbakova. Now a very interesting and crucial moment for them is whether the girls who received quads at a young age can save and even develop their achievements? No one knows the answer to this question, because they were the first to approach this barrier. Ahead they have the road literally along the blade of a knife, and the whole world will watch how they do it. The next generation of juniors will be easier, based on the experience gained. If Sasha and Anna can maintain the achieved level, then the question of their relevance in adulthood simply will not arise and they will be ready to meet the young rivals on equal terms. I really hope to see this in 2-3 years.
I want to argue with that. It will certainly be wonderful if Alina can successfully participate in the struggle for victory in the coming years for as long as she herself wants. However, I think the most important goal of the Khrustalny team should be just the development and preservation of the technical superiority of Shcherbakova, Trusova (and Kostornaya if she follows them) in the next few years. These young girls with their quads have risen to the highest level of technical excellence, ahead of the previous generation of girls, and I do not see the next generation being able to far surpass Trusova or Shcherbakova. Now a very interesting and crucial moment for them is whether the girls who received quads at a young age can save and even develop their achievements? No one knows the answer to this question, because they were the first to approach this barrier. Ahead they have the road literally along the blade of a knife, and the whole world will watch how they do it. The next generation of juniors will be easier, based on the experience gained. If Sasha and Anna can maintain the achieved level, then the question of their relevance in adulthood simply will not arise and they will be ready to meet the young rivals on equal terms. I really hope to see this in 2-3 years.
Will there be a limit of what can humanly achieved in our sport? Will there come a counter revolution to bring back the old ways?
On the subject of Medvyedeva and her apparent need to 'unlearn' technique and be re-trained in a different technique, could she have exposed the Achilles heel of #TeamTutberidzeForProgress: nobody wanting to make any drastic changes to the settings and setup of the Tutberidze Effect?
It seems to me that most of her muscle/weight gain is on upper body. Because i don't see a big difference on legs (and even overall) ...
The technique of Eteri's students has evolved with each "generation" of students. Yulia's technique did not hold up long at all. Zhenya's lasted longer. Alina had better technique at 15 than Zhenya did at the same age, and her jumps appear to be more stable long-term as well.
....
Trusova and Kostornaia have bigger jumps than Alina did, which is a good sign for their longevity, IMOI think this will be less of an issue for Eteri's girls going forward, because the girls younger than Zhenya have better technique. But individual ladies might still have problems depending on if they have any particularly dramatic growth spurts. But I do think it means that the "Tutberidze Effect" IS adapting with every new generation of ladies.