SP and FS replaced by Technical and Artistic programs? | Page 17 | Golden Skate

SP and FS replaced by Technical and Artistic programs?

gkelly

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Jul 26, 2003
Still, you can't compare figure skating to professional team sports in terms of audiences.

In part because the kinds of coverage provided by US networks up to and including the 1990s skating boom tended to have as much in common with what is now reality TV performance contests as they had with coverage of ball (or puck) sports.

How would ISU and USFSA contracts ca. 1996-2002 compare with NHL or MLS contracts of the same era?

I have no data. But I would guess that even at their US peak figure skating contracts were well behind the NHL.

MLS was still relatively new, so their popularity might have peaked later than skating did (and not yet have declined).
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
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Re judging of PCS:

6. Program Components Working Group
The Council established a Working Group to consider improvements for the judging of Program Components. The Working Group consists of Paolo Pizzocari (ITA), Leanna Caron (CAN), Alla Shekhovtsova (RUS) and Karen Wolanchuk (USA).


(Excerpt from ISU Communication No. 2289, Decisions of the Council [Oct 11-12 meeting])

https://isu.org/inside-isu/isu-communications/communications/22408-isu-communication-2289/file (published Oct 18)​
 

Ducky

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Still, you can't compare figure skating to professional team sports in terms of audiences.

In part because the kinds of coverage provided by US networks up to and including the 1990s skating boom tended to have as much in common with what is now reality TV performance contests as they had with coverage of ball (or puck) sports.

How would ISU and USFSA contracts ca. 1996-2002 compare with NHL or MLS contracts of the same era?

I have no data. But I would guess that even at their US peak figure skating contracts were well behind the NHL.

MLS was still relatively new, so their popularity might have peaked later than skating did (and not yet have declined).

Sorry. This was in direct reference to the earlier question of why the US market matters when interest in skating is skyrocketing world wide. Basically the US market it a juggernaut.

I had wanted to include NFL figures but they’re no longer a tax exempt organization but mostly just to show the shear size of the money that’s being poured in. (And, um, I have a job that theoretically I should have been doing and not producing market research stats...)

However, I did read an article from 2012 (? will look this up) that had some insights that are HIGHLY relevant to the actually technical program vs artistic program argument, that blamed the decline in interest in skating to the States on 1) the lack of more fun events since the ISU eliminated the need to go pro and to keep competitive competitive longer and 2) the new ISJ scoring system no longer allowing for these moments like Michele Kwan or Sasha Cohen’s long beautiful spirals.

Anyway, it’s 9pm on the East Coast and while
I know that there is a Yankees game on (Go Team Not the Yankees!) there are two screens in the bar that I’m at not showing that game and one of those is showing bs football documentary things. Which is a shame because if the Men’s Short Program were on NOW it would generate more interest to tune in for the freeskate tomorrow.
 

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.
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I had read on Twitter that Yags had made a fool out of himself with his opinions.

And here he is proving it:biggrin:
 

Lunalovesskating

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I had read on Twitter that Yags had made a fool out of himself with his opinions.

And here he is proving it:biggrin:

That was not even the icing on the cake. The things he said during the men's SP yesterday ..... smh. Many people are upset about the commentary Yagudin gave yesterday.
 

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.
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That was not even the icing on the cake. The things he said during the men's SP yesterday ..... smh. Many people are upset about the commentary Yagudin gave yesterday.

I had read some comments about that too, including, perhaps my favorite skater:slink: Hey, his opinion is his opinion and he can like what he likes. We all do:)

It's when you start repeating the old tired happy hoo-hah about sports and men and manliness and quads and blah di blah blah:yawn: :yawn: :yawn:
Life's too short for me to waste time listening to that :biggrin:
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Still, you can't compare figure skating to professional team sports in terms of audiences.

In part because the kinds of coverage provided by US networks up to and including the 1990s skating boom tended to have as much in common with what is now reality TV performance contests as they had with coverage of ball (or puck) sports.

How would ISU and USFSA contracts ca. 1996-2002 compare with NHL or MLS contracts of the same era?

I have no data. But I would guess that even at their US peak figure skating contracts were well behind the NHL.

MLS was still relatively new, so their popularity might have peaked later than skating did (and not yet have declined).

I am not exactly sure what kind of "contracts" figure skaters ever had that would be comparable to members of NHL or MLS teams. As for making money, in earlier times skaters would hope for contracts with touring companies like Ice Capades, as well as commercial endorsement contracts apart from actual skating.

The only skater whose financial agreement with the USFSA was ever made public, as far as I know, was Michelle Kwan. She was paid up to $900,000 a year during her peak earning years. (This is in the public tax records which the USFSA has to file as a non-profit organization). I believe, although I do not have any inside informations about this, that this was part of the deal between the USFSA and ABC television, and included guarantees of Michelle's participation in ABC cheesefests and specials. (?)

The highest paid hockey player in the U.S. in 1998 was Sergei Federov (Detroit Red Wings :) ) at US$ 14.5 million.

As for Major League Soccer, the league only started in 1995 and lost money in its early years. The highest paid player now makes 7.2 million -- despite the fact that U.S. men's soccer players are so bad that they can't qualify for the world cup competition. I think that the most successful teams (financially) are teams like Los Angeles which are based in communities that have large Hispanic or international populations.
 
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gkelly

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I think the skaters who got rich from their skating got most of their money from endorsements and show fees, especially tours, not from competing.

But they had to compete and place well to attract sponsors and invitations/well-paid contracts for shows.
 
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It's when you start repeating the old tired happy hoo-hah about sports and men and manliness and quads ...

This is the part of the argument that seems strange to me. If the goal is to make figure skating seem more manly, to attract more boys to the sport, etc. -- I don't see how the solution is to present a parade of tiny, slender, flexible 15-year-old girls twirling in the air. ("If you work real hard, my son, you can aspire to grow up to be the new Alexandra Trusova.")

On the other hand, celebrating men gliding and spinning with grace and esthetic charm doesn't seem to target this particular issue, either. I think it is best just to accept the sport for what it is. Some sports fans will enjoy it, others will look elsewhere for their sports fix.
 

Interspectator

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Has there been any solid news on this possible split going forward?

My personal feelings are the same as before, if you try to split the art from the sport, it will leave both less attractive. If the ISU wants to reform skating, they should invest in better judging equipment and judge training. (Just one spectator crying into the void)
 

TallyT

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I think the skaters who got rich from their skating got most of their money from endorsements and show fees, especially tours, not from competing.

But they had to compete and place well to attract sponsors and invitations/well-paid contracts for shows.

The endorsement bit is still true (as it is in most individual sports, it was noted on a TV show the other day that Federer's wealth comes hugely more from endorsements, despite his impressive lack of onscreen charisma/sparkle in them), but decent endorsement money is only really there for a few people and big money even less.
 

RobinA

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It would look like ice dance :sarcasm:

My hope would be, and I like this idea, that it would look like Jason Brown. I think a skater should be able to win on their strength whether it be rotations or artistic.
 

RobinA

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It's been 40 years since Dorothy Hamill, so lots of things have changed.

I agree there might be fewer hard-core fans than in the past in the US. I'm less certain about that world-wide.

But, for the sake of argument, conceding your point.

The questions that follow are, "What's the cause of that?" and "How do we win them back?"

"B Level" competitions for those who can't contend in the Main Event doesn't seem to me to be a winning proposal.

Mathman, you're a pragmatist. Do you really think that watering down the athletic dare-devil aspect of a sport already considered "unmanly" by wrong-headed people is going to put butts in seats?

The "unmanly" crowd will never like figure skating. They have almost every other sports on the damn planet, can't we have one of two? As far as "What's the cause of that," for one thing it has to be on TV, which it barely is anymore.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
The "unmanly" crowd will never like figure skating.

I think that is the bottom line on this issue.

By the way, the top athletes in the sport of curling can make as much as $40,000 a year (in Canada, maybe half that in the United States).
 
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I think the skaters who got rich from their skating got most of their money from endorsements and show fees, especially tours, not from competing.

Just out of morbid and none-of-my-business curiosity, I wonder how much Davis and White, not to mention Tanith Belbin White, pull in. They are our most recent Olympic champions, they have had a few minor sponsorships (like Puffs tissues), they still tour with Stars on Ice and do some commentating work.

Did you all catch Tanith's commercial for Homelite Real Estate Services on the Skate America broadcast? Just like a level four spin (show Mariah Bell clip) gives you the most points in figure skating, so you can get the best price for your home if you sign up with Homelite. :rock:

Now that Geico insurance has become a figure skating sponsor (replacing State Farm?), I look forward to ads featuring Alysa Liu and the Geico lizard. "Isn't that amazing -- Alysa just did two triple Axels and a quad Lutz! No, what's amazing is that you can save 15% by switching to Geico."

I would also be curious about other countries. Does someone like Julia Lipnitskaia (celebrated both in Russia and world-wide) have endorsement opportunities? What about Carolina Kostner?
 
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TontoK

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The "unmanly" crowd will never like figure skating. They have almost every other sports on the damn planet, can't we have one of two? As far as "What's the cause of that," for one thing it has to be on TV, which it barely is anymore.

No argument. But one of the reasons it's not on TV more than is that it's just not as popular, at least in America. I promise that if it was a ratings grabber, it would be on all the time.

As far as the "unmanly" crowd... I like football and NASCAR and extreme snow sports, and I've even been known to tune into professional wrestling for the entertainment value.

Sports fans will watch most anything with an adrenaline rush to it.
 

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.
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No argument. But one of the reasons it's not on TV more than is that it's just not as popular, at least in America. I promise that if it was a ratings grabber, it would be on all the time.

As far as the "unmanly" crowd... I like football and NASCAR and extreme snow sports, and I've even been known to tune into professional wrestling for the entertainment value.

Sports fans will watch most anything with an adrenaline rush to it.

Sorry, my friend, I’ve already posted until most posters here are sick of it, that this is simply not my experience.

My fellow Eagles fans do not care about quads upon quads, no matter how it’s packaged and no matter how it’s sold.
And the way the Eagles are playing this year, you think they would:laugh:

Unless of course we take away the costumes and the music and the spins, and then it’s not figure skating. :shrug:
 

TontoK

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Sorry, my friend, I’ve already posted until most posters here are sick of it, that this is simply not my experience.

My fellow Eagles fans do not care about quads upon quads, no matter how it’s packaged and no matter how it’s sold.
And the way the Eagles are playing this year, you think they would:laugh:

Unless of course we take away the costumes and the music and the spins, and then it’s not figure skating. :shrug:

Well, first off, your Eagles are sub-.500, and God's Team the Patriots are undefeated. I just want to rub your nose in that.

Secondly, you and I posted right after each other... two fans of "manly" sports that are also fans of skating.

So, I refuse to believe there aren't more of us out there.
 
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