The future of Tutberidze's group

mathlike · Sep 5, 2019

Tough topic - do you think Eteri Tutberidze is capable of managing 4+ elite ladies skaters for a long period of time? :think:

The number of 1st places, podium finishes and national team spots is limited. So is the fame, hype and money in still only developing popularity sport of figure skating.
The skaters may repeat ad nauseam how it's all about delivering two good performances, but the insane level of competitiveness is such, that sooner or later somebody starts losing, no matter how good she performed. Two, three, four lost direct duels, season or two off national team, less love from the fans, less media interest, less advertisement contracts and minds may start to seek explanations, improvements, guilt, way out...
It's rather naive to picture all the stars lining up for all these ambitious girls and distributing everything equally - would they even want it? Besides, Alina has already huge experience and time advantage over the Alexandra, Alena and Anna - they all want to catch up!
Then there is Liza Tursynbayeva, who's going to (get well!) fight along for everything but NT spots and super talented juniors who have to be managed, before they join these hunger games as well.

We've witnessed Alina's growing pains in her second season. Most of this is waiting for the younger girls as well. Can we really picture three looong seasons of Alina Zagitova, Liza Tursynbayeva, Alena Kanysheva, Sasha Trusova, Alena Kostornaia, Anna Shcherbakova, Kamila Valieva, Dasha Usacheva, Maya Khromykh competing for their 2022 Olympic dream under the same roof? :confused2:

silverfoxes · Sep 5, 2019

Realistically speaking, they aren't all going to be there forever. The odds of them all staying healthy top competitors and nobody wanting a change are extremely low. It's not just about Eteri - every coach has skaters come and go for all sorts of reasons. I really don't see what the big deal is if someone leaves, as long as it's on their own terms.

katymay · Sep 6, 2019

I would like to see them bring in an outside choreographer. All of the programs are starting to look alike.

macy · Sep 6, 2019

the important thing with eteri's team, or any team for that matter to stay relevant, is to keep building the next generation and eteri is doing a great job at that. you have to always have a new crop ready to take over when the current ones fade or retire, and she seems to be set for at least the next 5 years or so barring injuries to her top upcoming skaters. as bad as it can sound, your current crop has to be easily replaceable with something just as good or better. but, ice is slippery and anything can happen.

Gourlie · Sep 6, 2019

It must be extremely mentally hard to be Russian female skater, not only for those who are in Team Tutberidze, but in whole Russia. Undergoing National Championships must be a journey through hell. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the Russian girls change their nationality. I understand that it is hard to throw away your native country, but for most of these girls it's still better choice, I think. They could compete in Europeans, Worlds or Olympics and still be between TOP skaters and with a little luck even on podium.

neud · Sep 6, 2019

mathlike said:
The number of 1st places, podium finishes and national team spots is limited. So is the fame, hype and money in still only developing popularity sport of figure skating.:

I think it is much bigger problem for Mishin, Panova and other groups, since most of these spots etc. go to Tutberidze group.

mathlike · Sep 6, 2019

neud said:
I think it is much bigger problem for Mishin, Panova and other groups, since most of these spots etc. go to Tutberidze group.

How so? Eteri's skaters are the best in the world right now, there are 4 of them and only 3 spots. Mishin and Panova don't have such a number of top elite skaters inside their groups fighting for senior nt.

silverfoxes · Sep 6, 2019

katymay said:
I would like to see them bring in an outside choreographer. All of the programs are starting to look alike.

The juniors' programs this season are almost all just one big snoozefest. Daniil really needs a break (probably even moreso these days with the passing of his mom). I don't want to offend anyone, but I'm not seeing any individual personality in these programs or in this current crop of skaters so far. Only Kamila stands out a little bit. It's all so cut and paste at this point.

tosca · Sep 6, 2019

silverfoxes said:
The juniors' programs this season are almost all just one big snoozefest. Daniil really needs a break (probably even moreso these days with the passing of his mom). I don't want to offend anyone, but I'm not seeing any individual personality in these programs or in this current crop of skaters so far. Only Kamila stands out a little bit. It's all so cut and paste at this point.

Agreed. It’s like each of her juniors skater is a carbon copy of each other copying and pasting the best of the crop before them.

ruga · Sep 6, 2019

silverfoxes said:
The juniors' programs this season are almost all just one big snoozefest. Daniil really needs a break (probably even moreso these days with the passing of his mom). I don't want to offend anyone, but I'm not seeing any individual personality in these programs or in this current crop of skaters so far. Only Kamila stands out a little bit. It's all so cut and paste at this point.

I noticed that too. Maybe it's partly because some of them kept their old programs that were OK for a novice but not as good for international outings. Or because they invested so much energy on new seniors and their debuting skates. Creating 10-12 programs that will be shown on GP stage at least twice is no joke. We will see tomorrow and on Sunday. Hope these programs will be much better.

flanker · Sep 6, 2019

katymay said:
I would like to see them bring in an outside choreographer. All of the programs are starting to look alike.

Again? This was discussed plenty of times. As people say here, realistically speaking, who of the juniors and even upcomming seniors has about 10 000 USD for an outsider's choreo in their pocket. Just for several's GS users pleasure. Mayba Alina could offer that but in her case it is very doubtful.

Edwin · Sep 6, 2019

flanker said:
Again? This was discussed plenty of times. As people say here, realistically speaking, who of the juniors and even upcomming seniors has about 10 000 USD for an outsider's choreo in their pocket. Just for several's GS users pleasure. Mayba Alina could offer that but in her case it is very doubtful.

I think none of these kids, nor their trainers, nor their parents trust any outside choreographer no matter his reputation with 'adult' skaters to stage suitable images for 13-14 year olds in just two weeks abroad.

They trust Rozanov, Gleikhengauz, Tutberidze herself, to stage these images that fit like a glove, because these trainers work with them daily and know their skater's strong and weak points even better than the kids themselves. Foreign choreographers 'impose' their thoughts and ideas, and when he or she doesn't speak any Russian can hardly with full comprehension even start discussing the image, the music etc. with these young skaters. Otherwise you'd get those barbiedoll routines like Kurakova's, those can be done 'on the cheap' only using hands and feet to stage the movements required. No thanks. #TeamTurberidzeForProgress skaters deserve only the best image and music their collective trainers can think of.

Do you really think other foreigh choreographers could stage masterpieces like Dos Cadenzias, The Girl on the Ball or Je Suis Malade without knowing the children by character and capabilities?

flanker · Sep 6, 2019

silverfoxes said:
Realistically speaking, they aren't all going to be there forever. The odds of them all staying healthy top competitors and nobody wanting a change are extremely low. It's not just about Eteri - every coach has skaters come and go for all sorts of reasons. I really don't see what the big deal is if someone leaves, as long as it's on their own terms.

The question is not if somebody sometimes would like to leave, but to where. There is not unlimited number of coaches on the same level that would provide the girls the same quality of training. So far experience with changing a coach is not too positive and the girls are not stupid. Maybe with some more success (=money) in their pockets they could afford some top coach, but that will take some time. Look at Nastya who has to ask fans for finantial help. So, realistically speaking, if we not talk about a fond hope of some wannabe fans to put them to their beloved coach, this will not happen soon.

flanker · Sep 6, 2019

Edwin said:
I don't think any of these kids, nor their trainers, nor their parents trust any outside choreographer no matter his reputation with 'adult' skaters to stage suitable images for 13-14 year olds in just two weeks abroad.

That's another thing. And how many choreographers compatible with Eteri would be willing to go fly to Khrustalyi for a fortnight. If another choreographer, that it should be a permanent member of the team.

silverfoxes · Sep 6, 2019

flanker said:
The question is not if somebody sometimes would like to leave, but to where. There is not unlimited number of coaches on the same level that would provide the girls the same quality of training. So far experience with changing a coach is not too positive and the girls are not stupid. Maybe with some more success (=money) in their pockets they could afford some top coach, but that will take some time. Look at Nastya who has to ask fans for finantial help. So, realistically speaking, if we not talk about a fond hope of some wannabe fans to put them to their beloved coach, this will not happen soon.

Nobody said they are stupid, but not everyone is mentally and physically able to sustain her training method for years. Talented skaters have left her before and they will leave again. That's just the nature of the sport. And then there are only 2 choices - go to another coach, or quit.

Edwin · Sep 6, 2019

flanker said:
That's another thing. And how many choreographers comatible with Eteri would be willing to go fly tio Khrustalyi foor a fortnight. If another choreographer, that it should be a permanent member of the team.

Most likely it needs to be a permanent addition to the staff. When Ministry of Sports finally makes good on its promise to build a new two rink facility for Khrustalniy, there will be room and logistics for more skaters and training staff and another choreographer will be most welcome. But I don't think that's going to happen soon. Sambo-70 has two ice skating facilities, perhaps that promised new one will mean one of the others has to be given over to hockey or whatever and will be lost. So there is no gain in overall capacity. Unless figure skating really takes off, but reading back what FFKKR's president said in his latest interview, this isn't all together clear to read in the future. Ministry of Sports nor MosKomSport are financing those 'academies' and the state budget isn't unlimited for such frivolities as children's sports.

Edwin · Sep 6, 2019

silverfoxes said:
Nobody said they are stupid, but not everyone is mentally and physically able to sustain her training method for years. Talented skaters have left her before and they will leave again. That's just the nature of the sport. And then there are only 2 choices - go to another coach, or quit.

Almost any other coach will be seen as a degradation by the public at large. Not by the skaters themselves, if they feel and perform better in another rink under different coaches, it is their choice and they might be more happy even. But these other coaches might find many things that are not to their liking and want to change these. Changing skills and techniques learned over years is never easy, takes a long time and their is no guaranteed result.
Going to Mishin is equal to quitting IMO. FFKSPb has hardly any youth in the national selections and only 2 seniors in Test Skates tomorrow.
#TeamDavydov, #TeamPanova are most likely booked to capacity too, and their resources, esp. Panova's seem much smaller. Now if a person like Inna Goncharenko would set up a new state sports school, that might be an opening, but I don't see this happening soon. The Tutberidze Effect is team work, and one never sees, or hardly hears from the specialised sliding, jumping, PE and choreo trainers at these other rinks.

oatmella · Sep 6, 2019

There’s the benefit to having an in-house choreographer to work with them on their programs throughout the season.

I think Daniil does a great job considering how many programs he choreographs every season! Sure there may be room for improvements, but the same could be said for other choreographers.

Edwin · Sep 6, 2019

oatmella said:
There’s the benefit to having an in-house choreographer to work with them on their programs throughout the season.

I think Daniil does a great job considering how many programs he choreographs every season! Sure there may be room for improvements, but the same could be said for other choreographers.

The Masters Touch! What makes a Rembrandt a Rembrandt, a Stradivarius a Stradivarius? Their artists' touch this ombre between light and shadow, their unique rich sound precise, powerful from high to low notes, just like with choreographers staging a program. If I don't like Rembrandt, I visit the Van Gogh museum, If I don't like Stradivarius, I look for that violin concerto played on a Guarneri Del Jesu

TallyT · Sep 6, 2019

Umm, I see Daniil as more Andre Rieu - not really that good, but let's be honest, a lot of people love it and who am I to say they shouldn't?

As for the original question, the group will survive as long as Tutberidze can show the results. Most of the girls will probably not. That's what such fierce competition is all about.

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