When do you need more ‘advanced’ blades? | Golden Skate

When do you need more ‘advanced’ blades?

Sunshine247

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 17, 2018
I’m trying to anticipate moving onto new blades, mostly for my younger skater. She is likely to get new boots more frequently since she skates with very little toe room. And it could be as soon as 3-4 months from now. But I’m not sure which factors play into choosing an “advanced blade”.

Right now she’s got a consistent axel and double sal plus double toe mostly there. Shes on a roll with her doubles right now, picking them up quickly. She’s currently skating in a Jackson Debut Fusion with Coronation Ace blades. From what I can tell by other skaters at the rink, jumps seem to be the determining factor in blade choice. Might be totally off base here so besides consulting our coach, I was hoping to get a feel for when to plan for changing things up, and hear even more info of how the blade affects different aspects of skating.

My other skater is more of a spinner but she’s not likely to have her foot grow any more. Timing can be based strictly “as needed” luckily, so learning more about blades for spins is helpful as well.
TIA
 

SmallAminal

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 26, 2016
No matter what, I would consult with both your coach and the fitter. Every skater is different so I don't think there is a one-size-fits all approach. I know skater's at that level in Coro Ace and I know some that are a little behind that with the jumps and are in a higher level blade at the request of the coach.

My skater happens to be someone that can really tell the difference in the blades and fully appreciated moving out of Coro Ace into MK Phantoms. However, I know of another skater that moved from Coro Ace to Gold Seal and "didn't really feel a difference at all", according to them.

You might also find that changing the blade in the middle of making progress on the double jumps can either speed up or impede the progress. Sometimes it depends on the skater. Mine really zoomed forward but another skater found it difficult to adjust and lost the axel in the process.

Certainly, you'll want to be careful in making any change right before a competition or a test....although in our case we got lucky and things improved with new skates/blades (mostly because old skates were too small though).
 

Sibelius

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 28, 2017
We are about to make that change with my skater, and for us it's as much a matter of timing (and limited choice) as skills. She is currently in the Debut with Coronation Ace as well. Her doubles are getting more consistent, she started double Lutz a couple of days ago and landed a clean one on her last attempt of the lesson. New boots, Jackson Premiere, semi custom for width, are on order. We were considering a Gold Star, but she's been working hard on her spins and they are to the point where she wants a Gold Seal (her coaches choice, but not forced upon her skaters). While knowing there are no "magic blades", she's hoping the big rocker will give her some extra lift for bigger jumps, and better spins. We are also looking for more glide and speed with the 8' rocker. We are doing this now because she is finished with her competition season, and while we are waiting on a test session date (got booted off the one before the qualifying cut off date) her current boots and blades still fit so if one comes up she's got those available while breaking in the new set. I assume she'll start double Axel next year so it's just a good time to get them, even if they are a little beyond her current skills. And, as far as choice, she (and her coach) want a rounder spin rocker with an 8' main rocker, plus, she's a Wilson skater, so that doesn't leave much choice!

I don't know how Kosher it is, but I'm posting a link to another site where there was a discussion about this, more specifically where to move on to from the CA/MK Pro blades.

https://skatingforums.com/index.php?topic=8033.0
 

tstop4me

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 2, 2015
Country
United-States
You know you need more advanced blades when your coach tells you your current blades are keeping you from making more progress.
 

Ic3Rabbit

Former Elite, now Pro. ⛸️
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 9, 2017
Country
Olympics
She should be fine in her coro aces. When she gets her higher doubles and up to 2A, then look at Gold Seals, Pattern 99s, etc
 

Sunshine247

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 17, 2018
We are about to make that change with my skater, and for us it's as much a matter of timing (and limited choice) as skills. She is currently in the Debut with Coronation Ace as well. Her doubles are getting more consistent, she started double Lutz a couple of days ago and landed a clean one on her last attempt of the lesson. New boots, Jackson Premiere, semi custom for width, are on order. We were considering a Gold Star, but she's been working hard on her spins and they are to the point where she wants a Gold Seal (her coaches choice, but not forced upon her skaters). While knowing there are no "magic blades", she's hoping the big rocker will give her some extra lift for bigger jumps, and better spins. We are also looking for more glide and speed with the 8' rocker. We are doing this now because she is finished with her competition season, and while we are waiting on a test session date (got booted off the one before the qualifying cut off date) her current boots and blades still fit so if one comes up she's got those available while breaking in the new set. I assume she'll start double Axel next year so it's just a good time to get them, even if they are a little beyond her current skills. And, as far as choice, she (and her coach) want a rounder spin rocker with an 8' main rocker, plus, she's a Wilson skater, so that doesn't leave much choice!

I don't know how Kosher it is, but I'm posting a link to another site where there was a discussion about this, more specifically where to move on to from the CA/MK Pro blades.

https://skatingforums.com/index.php?topic=8033.0

Thanks for the link. Lots of really specific info on different blades! Seems like our skaters are similar, with mine just behind yours so I benefit from your experience.

TBH their coach isn’t great about recommending equipment etc. Lots of other positives but that’s one weakness. My younger skater was doing beginning axel exercises and axel attempts in completely inappropriate, rec level skates. So based on that experience I’m trying to learn in advance.
 

Sunshine247

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 17, 2018
She should be fine in her coro aces. When she gets her higher doubles and up to 2A, then look at Gold Seals, Pattern 99s, etc

TY. Luckily, well sort of, she will be changing boots a bit more frequently so it sounds like she’ll be able to stay in the Coro ace blades for another go. I have some barely used Coro ace blades one size up after her last fit issue. So that’s actually good news. We’ve already had too many issues with boots and blades.
 

Sibelius

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 28, 2017
Thanks for the link. Lots of really specific info on different blades! Seems like our skaters are similar, with mine just behind yours so I benefit from your experience.

TBH their coach isn’t great about recommending equipment etc. Lots of other positives but that’s one weakness. My younger skater was doing beginning axel exercises and axel attempts in completely inappropriate, rec level skates. So based on that experience I’m trying to learn in advance.

It's tough to make these choices alone, luckilly we have a great fitter (who's a little conservative, still doesn't understand why she needs stiffer boots and the Gold Seal) plus the advice here for me has been priceless. Her coaches have been in the same boots, one in Harlick, the other in Sp-Teri, and both on Gold Seals since they were younger than mine is now, so that's what they know and recommend for their skaters. Neither of them push, but it's what worked for them and they have confidence in those combinations. We were fitted at Harlick, then at Sp-Teri, but Sp-Teri recommended she stay in Jacksons since they fit her very well. Her new boots are in and we'll get them fitted next Saturday and make our final blade selection, mostly for sizing then. I'm hoping to get the blade mounted toe to heel without a gap (the same way her CA is mounted now) so hopefully it can carry over to the next boot size. If not, my rationalization is as follows: $600/52 weeks/6 days = $1.92/day Bargain!

Oh, and sometimes those rec level skates are just fine for a lot longer than it appears. All depends on weight really. Mine had Jackson Artiste's and Jackson Elle's for much longer than they were supposed to last her skill wise, and her Debuts we were told could've lasted to 2A, but she says she doesn't feel confident in them for her doubles now so we're moving up to nip that doubt in the bud.
 

bostonskaterguy86

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 3, 2018
Country
United-States
Out of curiosity - are there ever situations where adult skaters who are taller/heavier are better off in more advanced blades for the skills they’re doing? I’m in USFSA Free Skate 1 and I’m in the men’s Jackson Debut and MK Pros. I weigh about 90kg, and the Debut seems supportive enough for now, but if I get to axel / beginning doubles I’d probably consider upgrading to the Premiere. I like my Pros and I probably wouldn’t feel the need to upgrade unless there was a tangible advantage to my skating (in which case I’d probably look at the Gold Star).
 

Sunshine247

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 17, 2018
It's tough to make these choices alone, luckilly we have a great fitter (who's a little conservative, still doesn't understand why she needs stiffer boots and the Gold Seal) plus the advice here for me has been priceless. Her coaches have been in the same boots, one in Harlick, the other in Sp-Teri, and both on Gold Seals since they were younger than mine is now, so that's what they know and recommend for their skaters. Neither of them push, but it's what worked for them and they have confidence in those combinations. We were fitted at Harlick, then at Sp-Teri, but Sp-Teri recommended she stay in Jacksons since they fit her very well. Her new boots are in and we'll get them fitted next Saturday and make our final blade selection, mostly for sizing then. I'm hoping to get the blade mounted toe to heel without a gap (the same way her CA is mounted now) so hopefully it can carry over to the next boot size. If not, my rationalization is as follows: $600/52 weeks/6 days = $1.92/day Bargain!

Oh, and sometimes those rec level skates are just fine for a lot longer than it appears. All depends on weight really. Mine had Jackson Artiste's and Jackson Elle's for much longer than they were supposed to last her skill wise, and her Debuts we were told could've lasted to 2A, but she says she doesn't feel confident in them for her doubles now so we're moving up to nip that doubt in the bud.

My daughter may go with the same debut/coronation ace set up for one more round before moving up to stiffer boots. She’s still under 90 lbs. and I think she’s very used to skating with less support. We have some fitters around but most do one brand of skate only. We might try on some edea before committing to Jackson again but honestly she didn’t have much break in period and has a reasonably good fit. She just doesn’t lace them as tight as I’d like to see up top. Lol. She’s had the opportunity to attend camps with Max Aaron and his skates are scandalously loose on top so what do I know. Lol.
 

treblemakerem

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 24, 2014
Out of curiosity - are there ever situations where adult skaters who are taller/heavier are better off in more advanced blades for the skills they’re doing? I’m in USFSA Free Skate 1 and I’m in the men’s Jackson Debut and MK Pros. I weigh about 90kg, and the Debut seems supportive enough for now, but if I get to axel / beginning doubles I’d probably consider upgrading to the Premiere. I like my Pros and I probably wouldn’t feel the need to upgrade unless there was a tangible advantage to my skating (in which case I’d probably look at the Gold Star).

Personally I am an adult about 130lbs working on axel/double loop and I have the premiere and wouldn’t be comfortable in anything lower. I also have MK pros and they seem fine for me for a while. I’ve heard of adults who have higher level blades because they had them in the past or just because they want them but I don’t think there is a problem with intermediate blades at this level.
 

Sibelius

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 28, 2017
My daughter may go with the same debut/coronation ace set up for one more round before moving up to stiffer boots. She’s still under 90 lbs. and I think she’s very used to skating with less support. We have some fitters around but most do one brand of skate only. We might try on some edea before committing to Jackson again but honestly she didn’t have much break in period and has a reasonably good fit. She just doesn’t lace them as tight as I’d like to see up top. Lol. She’s had the opportunity to attend camps with Max Aaron and his skates are scandalously loose on top so what do I know. Lol.

Well, if she's 3-4 months away from needing new boots for size, she may just surprise you with progress and a need for something stiffer like mine. Even though we were told by several very respected sources that she could go to 2A in her Debuts, once she got to consistently landing her 2t she didn't feel she had enough support and lost confidence in them. She really felt it when she started 2f, so we chose to move up and eliminate that doubt. Now that she's working on 2Lz we feel we've gotten them just in time. We ordered them through Jackson's Rapid Custom program in order to get a C/A combination width ($50 more). I guess we'll find out on Saturday whether she can point and bend in them and how much break in she'll need (hasn't had any issues with her previous 6 pairs of Jacksons). The comments from the techs have been that the Premiere's aren't that much stiffer than the Debut, and stock, they are $100 more. She's very anxious and excited to get them. She's such a shoe girl.

Our Gold Seal blade choice is driven by her coaches suggestion that she's ready for a better blade, and where else to you go from CA, but to the top of Wilson's line. It seems like there should be another rung on the ladder at the $350 mark, but I guess that's where Ultima and Eclipse are trying to fill the niche. Mine won't have anything to do with any blade than Wilson/MK after moving from an Eclipse version of the CA to the genuine Wilson.

As far as lacing tightness, mine had such a hard time (and her coaches were constantly after her about it) until we switched to thinner nylon laces. She has a much easier time getting them tightened and I haven't heard a word from her coach about loose laces since.
 

Sunshine247

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 17, 2018
Well, if she's 3-4 months away from needing new boots for size, she may just surprise you with progress and a need for something stiffer like mine. Even though we were told by several very respected sources that she could go to 2A in her Debuts, once she got to consistently landing her 2t she didn't feel she had enough support and lost confidence in them. She really felt it when she started 2f, so we chose to move up and eliminate that doubt. Now that she's working on 2Lz we feel we've gotten them just in time. We ordered them through Jackson's Rapid Custom program in order to get a C/A combination width ($50 more). I guess we'll find out on Saturday whether she can point and bend in them and how much break in she'll need (hasn't had any issues with her previous 6 pairs of Jacksons). The comments from the techs have been that the Premiere's aren't that much stiffer than the Debut, and stock, they are $100 more. She's very anxious and excited to get them. She's such a shoe girl.

Our Gold Seal blade choice is driven by her coaches suggestion that she's ready for a better blade, and where else to you go from CA, but to the top of Wilson's line. It seems like there should be another rung on the ladder at the $350 mark, but I guess that's where Ultima and Eclipse are trying to fill the niche. Mine won't have anything to do with any blade than Wilson/MK after moving from an Eclipse version of the CA to the genuine Wilson.

As far as lacing tightness, mine had such a hard time (and her coaches were constantly after her about it) until we switched to thinner nylon laces. She has a much easier time getting them tightened and I haven't heard a word from her coach about loose laces since.

I definitely appreciate all the feedback. Thanks! You hit the nail on the head with your comment. Im thinking that the last time we outgrew her boots/blades she was way underbooted based on her last skill level when the boots were the most broken down, so I’m trying to consider her skill level towards the end as well as the very beginning. A growth spurt can always throw them back, and a few months of things simply coming together can make a huge leap as well. It’s pretty much a crap shoot sometimes. But hearing others experiences definitely helps with the gamble. Lol.

I think I did switch to the thinner laces based on something I read here. Maybe even one of your comments. Lol. So she is doing better but sometimes I still need to remind her or she’ll come off the ice after warmups to tighten them. I got a recommendation from the rink manager/skate tech to change up her lacing pattern too. It did help her get used to tying the heel down without restricting her at the very top so she is doing a bit better. She just rushes is my thought as well.

BTW, The lacing pattern is actually recommended by Jackson as an option especially for breaking in boots but also for those who prefers the tops looser. She laces the first hooks, then crosses and goes up to the top hooks, then criss crosses moving down trough the hooks and ties at her ankle. I also just ordered but not tried, a lace strap that’s supposed to help keep the skate flexible but firm at the very top. It’s also supposed to help with boot break in(?) at the very least it will hold her laces when she wears a skirt or dress. It’s made by a former skater and coach and ok’d by USFS for competitions. It’s a thinner piece of elastic(hopefully strong) than the edea but similar idea. Can be customized in fit by how you hook it onto the skates.

I hear you about the cost of the blades! I’m not looking forward to it X2. My older daughter is set up for a big leap in skill as well since she’s a “thinker” and has her axel well organized and on the brink. She’s also in Jackson debut but she’s not as hard on her boots as my younger skater ironically. She’s much more “floaty” in her jumps. She’ll get the money out of a blade hopefully. I have a size up in coronation ace I’m holding onto for my younger skater, just in case. Unfortunately our main coach typically doesn’t have a ton of equipment recommendations. At this point we are working with some supplemental coaches and I feel like we can get feedback from multiple sources and somehow come to a decision.

I’d be really interested in your experience with the semi custom Jackson’s. Especially after coming from basically the same boots as my skaters. Sounds like they have similar foot shape/style. It should be interesting to see how jackson handles changing the heel width and transitioning to the wider forefoot. Wondering how it affects the ankle, arch area. Learned the hard way how important minute changes are! My older daughter has the most trouble with her heel slipping. Have you ever heat molded more than once after a boot has been broken in to get the fit back after it loosens at the heel maybe? Both their boots are getting a bit less than “perfect” I have to add up their time on ice to see when they actually need new boots since it was “the summer of skating”, with lots of ice time. My older daughter will likely go into the same size boot. Unless we change her boot to the next level as well. Thanks again!
 
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