2019-20 Ladies' power ranking | Page 3 | Golden Skate

2019-20 Ladies' power ranking

Fluture

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 26, 2018
Just recapitulate how this (again) appeared. The only thing I did was I said that considering how strong her jumps were I doubt she would not aspire to gain quads, because I don't know why I should consider her as quadless for next olympics when we are on the field of considering potential strength of the skaters in the near future. There are opinions about how this or that lady will be stable, what is her potential atc., so I feel completely free to express an opinion about Alina's potential to gain quads. On that statement I don't see anything bad, offensive to anyone etc. that would require such unnecessary (but usual) senseless reaction that anybody gets whenever he makes any positive consideration that matters to Alina (the only PR Alina ever got were her own victories despite predictions "she should retire"), to which I replied the way it deserved. Also I didn't speak about what which any team said, just how some members of the fanbases talk.

Frankly, I have no idea what you want. The discussion of this thread is about the power ranking for THIS season. Since Alina explicitly stated that she won‘t introduce a quad this season, it‘s no use discussing it here, IMO. Whereas someone like Rika has stated she’d like to include the quad in her program as soon as the GP season, so that’s a pretty different scenario. This doesn‘t mean Alina can‘t ever do a quad or doesn‘t have the potential to. But discussing this would be more of a place for the general Russian ladies thread.

My own comment was merely to point out that contradictory to what you claimed, there is no lady who is said by the forum or fans to have a “perfect quad salchow“.

As for what this thread is really about
- power ranking for this season: I expect to see Sasha firmly on top due to her sheer unbeatable BV with other girls such as Rika or Alina (Maybe Anna or Liza) being able to challenge her should she make mistakes or should Rika introduce the 4S and land it cleanly alongside her 3A.
 

VenusHalley

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 6, 2018
It is Trusova's to lose.

Rika is no. 2 and shoul she introduce a clean quad she might aim at number one.

Alina can score few medals if skates like she did during test skates.

Tuktik and Evgenia also have chance.
 

Good Vibes Only

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 22, 2019
Here's mine:
1. Alexandra Trusova
2. Alina Zagitova
3. Rika Kihira
4. Alena Kostornaia
5. Anna Shcherbakova
6. Elizabet Tursynbaeva
7. Evgenia Medvedeva
8. Elizaveta Tuktamysheva
9. Young You
10. Satoko Miyahara

My rankings may or may not be a little biased towards Alena, I can't help it lol. She is my favorite skater :)
 

yume

🍉
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 11, 2016
I don't think it's PR when you say that you won't add quads to your layout or when someone ask you if you are training quads and that you say that it's pointless to talk about a jump if you have not landed it yet.

There are more obvious cases of PR imo.

Anyway, i only have a top 2:
1) Trusova. 170+ potential in the free
2) Kihira. Can score close to Trusova if clean but can't win. Japan always lose at the political game.

Zagitova, Kostornaya, Scherbakova, Tuktamysheva can all fight for the third place.
Zagitova can and will have big GOEs and strong PCS.
Kostornaya with her less risky program can score high. I won't be surprised to see her get 35+ and 70+ PCS at Nebelhorn.
Scherbakova needs to improve her pcs but her 4lz is a strong weapon.
Tukt needs can score big thanks to three 3A.
 

flanker

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 10, 2018
Country
Czech-Republic
Frankly, I have no idea what you want. The discussion of this thread is about the power ranking for THIS season. Since Alina explicitly stated that she won‘t introduce a quad this season, it‘s no use discussing it here, IMO.

Read the comment to which I did react:

I think the page has turned. Katarina Witt was the best of her era, as was Carol Heiss in hers. Alina Zagitova was the best in the "twilight of the triple jump" era, say 2017 to 2019.

But I think the time has slipped away when a figure skater could win a championship with GOE and SS over someone who delivers three quads.

But who knows. Maybe someone will pull a Lysacek at the 2022 Olympics and become the last lady in history to win a gold medal without a quad.

Though the thread is about this season (I know, thanks), this particular comment brought wider outlook (on which I don't see a single problem BTW). So, in that perspective, I think it's completely fine to say that we should not assume that Alina (or other skaters who don't jump quads in competition yet, maybe even through this whole season) won't jump quads in 2022. And to be honest, I don't see see such strict limitations that you are trying to impose here anywhere else so even if my comment wasn't reaction to that particular comment I would still not understand your restrictive "policy",w hich applied strictly, should have been implied to a comment that takes next olympics into a consideration. Next winter olympics are not taking place in 2020, right? And I didn't mention them first, right? So what's your problem with my reply to one particular comment.

Whereas someone like Rika has stated she’d like to include the quad in her program as soon as the GP season, so that’s a pretty different scenario. This doesn‘t mean Alina can‘t ever do a quad or doesn‘t have the potential to. But discussing this would be more of a place for the general Russian ladies thread.

As stated above, it does, just you didn't read the original comment.

My own comment was merely to point out that contradictory to what you claimed, there is no lady who is said by the forum or fans to have a “perfect quad salchow“.

Though I didn't mention something that's going beyond this season first, I am the only one who is fluturespalined in what borders I should hold myself. To a comment that said:
Alina Zagitova was the best in the "twilight of the triple jump" era, say 2017 to 2019 and also "Maybe someone will pull a Lysacek at the 2022 Olympics and become the last lady in history to win a gold medal without a quad."
I just replied:
"Supposed that Alina will never add a quad"
In what way is this improper reaction, esp. when I also said "even if Alina wouldn't add them this season, she definitely will before the next olympics."

If this is a problem for you, than this is a problem for you.
 

flanker

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 10, 2018
Country
Czech-Republic
Anyway, i only have a top 2:
1) Trusova. 170+ potential in the free
2) Kihira. Can score close to Trusova if clean but can't win. Japan always lose at the political game.

I don't think it is a political game when Kihira didn't land three 3As and was defeated fair and square, I don't think that it was a political game when japanese skaters won world championships many times before, I don't think it will be a political game this season if despite predictions we already know from the last season Kihira won't medal again (to be better understood, I'm not saying Kihira won't win or medal, but if that happens, it won't be due to a political game).

Those who are sentenced for the fight about the third place can win again, in fact such thing is more often than rare and considering all skates till now, not only that all 4As skated better at test skates than Rika, which could be understood as comparing competition with test skates (though often called "nearly a competition" even by skaters themselves), but not only Sasha, even Anna skated better than Rika at their first competitions (just weird scoring in Italy is distorting it a little).
 

yume

🍉
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 11, 2016
I don't think it is a political game when Kihira didn't land three 3As and was defeated fair and square, I don't think that that it was political game when japanese skaters won world championships many times before, I don't think it will be political game this season if despite predictions we already know Kihira won't medal again (to be better understood, I'm not saying Kihira won't win or medal, but if that happens, it won't be due to a political game).

Those who are sentenced for the fight about the third place can win again, in fact such thing is more often than rare and considering all skates till now, not only that all 4As skated better at test skates than Rika, which could be understood as comparing competition with test skates (though often called "nearly a competition" even by skaters themselves), but not only Sasha, even Anna skated better than Rika at their first competitions (just weird scoring in Italy is distorting it a little).

Okay.
 

readernick

Medalist
Joined
Dec 5, 2015

Really the best response you can give in this situation. 🤣🤣🤣🤣None of this is related to the program thread anyway. I agree with your predictions and assumptions about the top 2 this year. Beyond those two, it is very difficult predict how things will go this season.
 

zounger

Medalist
Joined
Jan 18, 2017
After the first round of GPs we will have a better picture of the "ranking". To early to say anything...
 

SkateSkates

Medalist
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
After the first round of GPs we will have a better picture of the "ranking". To early to say anything...

Agree completely! Challengers are truly warm up events for the season - the GP is where we will see top ladies against each other at every event, with quality cameras and high level judges. Even then, who would have thought Elizabet would have medaled at worlds based on her GP performances. It is a long season and a lot can happen over the course of September-March. Looking forward to all of it! I sincerely hope we see the top ladies battling it out doing their best all season, trading places on the podium depending on who delivered on that day.
 

flanker

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 10, 2018
Country
Czech-Republic
After the first round of GPs we will have a better picture of the "ranking". To early to say anything...

Agreed. Serious competition can be different. Last year Alina was great at CS Nebelhorn and JO, so the predictions were very positive, than her struggles came at GP, so the predictions were disastrous, and then again she prevailed. It's just that in reality things tend to be different (to both directions) than how people expect. So I think that rather than on temporary results people, if they really want to predict, shoud base their estimations about athletes power on their will and ability to deal with hard times.
 

theharleyquinn

Medalist
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
I don't see Liza as strongly as others, especially since she habitually lands her 3A on a turn. Her ability to do 3A combos is really questionable, and her programs are a miss this season compared to many more cohesive packaging choices amongst the top ladies.

With Elizabet injured, Anna has a really big opportunity to distinguish herself at Skate America. She may not have as direct competition as Sasha and Alyona will have at their events.
 

Elucidus

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 19, 2017
3. Alina. ( she will have a PCS advantage at the beginning of the year but I think it will go away as the year progresses.. She is not a Carolina like skater)
Definitely. She is better :) Not particularily in SS category, of course - but PCS is not only SS. All in all, Alina's programs tends to have stronger impact on audience (and judges) than Carolina's.
So I see Alina's PCS will only growing.

Kostornaya with her less risky program can score high. I won't be surprised to see her get 35+ and 70+ PCS at Nebelhorn.

But she won't be at Nebelhorn though.
 

lusterfan

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 23, 2018
Definitely. She is better :) Not particularily in SS category, of course - but PCS is not only SS. All in all, Alina's programs tends to have stronger impact on audience (and judges) than Carolina's.
So I see Alina's PCS will only growing.



But she won't be at Nebelhorn though.

I wish she was being sent to Nebelhorn. Her only major competition there would be Mariah Bell (who, no offense but isn't exactly super competitive against Alyona). Finlandia, which Alyona is being sent to, will be more competitive. :drama:
 

Elucidus

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 19, 2017
I wish she was being sent to Nebelhorn. Her only major competition there would be Mariah Bell (who, no offense but isn't exactly super competitive against Alyona). Finlandia, which Alyona is being sent to, will be more competitive. :drama:

Are you really Alena's fan? I mean - how you can have so little faith in her? She is strong, you know? I would be more concerned about her opponents in Finlandia tbh :biggrin: They risk to lose to yesterday junior miserably - both in TES and PCS. Which can impact their reputation too.
Also - the stronger earlier competition is - the better experience Alena will receive. I don't see anything bad in that - even if she won't win it. Challengers are just training comps anyway.
 

lusterfan

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 23, 2018
Are you really Alena's fan? I mean - how you can have so little faith in her? She is strong, you know? I would be more concerned about her opponents in Finlandia tbh :biggrin: They risk to lose to yesterday junior miserably - both in TES and PCS. Which will impact their reputation too.
Also - the stronger earlier competition is - the better experience Alena will receive. I don't see anything bad in that - even if she won't win it. Challengers are just training comps anyway.

I have faith in her, but not in the judges. Alyona should dominate against Liza in PCS AND GOE any day, but we don't know if judges would be willing to give her what she deserves in her first senior outing. If Liza lands her 3 3A's and plans a smarter layout, it will be unnervingly close. :drama:
 

Hyena

Tous les whiskys
Medalist
Joined
Jan 9, 2014
For funsies, here are the top 8 ladies' scores so far this season, with last year's SB and competition for comparison. Based on these very early numbers (except for Young, I think each has only competed internationally once), Sasha Trusova has a clear lead over the others, followed by Rika. Anna, Evgenia, and Liza are not too far behind and are pretty close to each other. It will be interesting to see how each skater's scoring range develops this year and how they're doing in relation to each other.

Skater2019-20 SB2018-19 SB2018-19 SB Comp
Trusova, Alexandra238.69222.89Junior Worlds
Kihira, Rika224.16233.12GPF
Shcherbakova, Anna218.20219.94Junior Worlds
Medvedeva, Evgenia217.43223.80Worlds
Tuktamysheva, Elizaveta214.38219.02NHK
Miyahara, Satoko204.30219.71Skate America
You, Young200.89195.50Bavarian Open
Sakamoto, Kaori194.42222.83Worlds
 

readernick

Medalist
Joined
Dec 5, 2015
Definitely. She is better :) Not particularily in SS category, of course - but PCS is not only SS. All in all, Alina's programs tends to have stronger impact on audience (and judges) than Carolina's.
So I see Alina's PCS will only growing.

Ok. You are allowed your opinion. I, definitely, disagree for many obvious reasons.
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
I don't think it is a political game when Kihira didn't land three 3As and was defeated fair and square, I don't think that that it was political game when japanese skaters won world championships many times before, I don't think it will be political game this season if despite predictions we already know from the last season Kihira won't medal again (to be better understood, I'm not saying Kihira won't win or medal, but if that happens, it won't be due to a political game).

Those who are sentenced for the fight about the third place can win again, in fact such thing is more often than rare and considering all skates till now, not only that all 4As skated better at test skates than Rika, which could be understood as comparing competition with test skates (though often called "nearly a competition" even by skaters themselves), but not only Sasha, even Anna skated better than Rika at their first competitions (just weird scoring in Italy is distorting it a little).

If Rika can land 3 3A's she probably is no. 1. With her skating skills and all. I wonder where we should put Kaori? Lim et al. Lilbet also could be up there too.

1. Khira
2. Trusova
3. Zagitova
4. Lilbet T
5. Anna S.
6. Liza T
7. Eunsoo L
8. Evgenia M
9. Kaori S
10. Miyahara
11.. Anna K
12. You
13. Bradie Tennell
14. Ting
15. Karen C
16.Mariah B
17. Sofia S
18. Gabby D.
19. Wakaba
20. Konstanova
 

lzxnl

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 8, 2018
If Rika can land 3 3A's she probably is no. 1. With her skating skills and all. I wonder where we should put Kaori? Lim et al. Lilbet also could be up there too.

1. Khira
2. Trusova
3. Zagitova
4. Lilbet T
5. Anna S.
6. Liza T
7. Eunsoo L
8. Evgenia M
9. Kaori S
10. Miyahara
11.. Anna K
12. You
13. Bradie Tennell
14. Ting
15. Karen C
16.Mariah B
17. Sofia S
18. Gabby D.
19. Wakaba
20. Konstanova

As much as I want Rika to be number 1, realistically Sasha's components aren't being scored particularly lowly, even though her program design is fairly lacklustre (you've seen one or two programs, you've seen them all) and her skating isn't all that interesting. The main points of contention between the two are (plus means base value advantage to Rika etc)

SP:
3A vs 2A (+4.70)
3T vs 3Lo(x) (-1.19)

FS:
2x3A vs 2x4T (-3)
4S vs 4Lz (-2.2)
2T vs 2A (-2)
3Lo(x) vs 3F(x) (-0.44)

This sums to an overall -4.13, which means if both skaters get an average of +3 GOE on their elements, Rika is at a TES deficit of about 5.3 points. In principle, she should be able to make up 5 points difference in PCS, but Sasha's PCS would have to stagnate, while Rika's would need to improve. In fact, Rika scored 33.64 + 68.96 = 102.60 PCS in total, whereas Sasha scored 32.20 + 65.44 = 97.64, which gives a difference of amazingly 4.96 points. Therefore, had Rika and Sasha skated clean programs with planned content with average of +3 GOE for each element, with the PCS given to them at the first competition, the final result becomes far too close to call.

I have made several assumptions here, including Rika landing a 4S with +3 GOE and actually landing all three 3As. In return, I have assumed Sasha does not mess up either 3Lz-3Lo and lands all three quads. What's a stronger assumption? I guess we'll find out.

Also, it must be said that unless Sasha adds a 3A to her program, Rika will benefit more from both of them adding new quads to their free programs. If Rika adds a 4T and Sasha adds a 4F, Rika can swap the 4T for a 2T in the 3A-2T, make it a 3A-3T, and then change her 3Lz-3T to a 3Lz/3F-3Lo (she's landed both in practice before: https://jumpitwithashuulanditwithap...ka-kihira-x-3-3-combo-3a3t-3lz3t-3lz3lo-3f3lo), in effect swapping a 2T for a 4T, whereas Sasha has to swap out a triple for a 4F, like, (ironically) a 3F. Rika gains 9.5 - 1.3 = 8.2 BV but Sasha gains 10.5 - 5.3 = 5.2 BV, and thus Rika with 3 3As + 2 quads would actually tie with Sasha with 4 quads. Hence the importance of a 3A to Sasha, to swap out the 2As in both the short and the free.

That said, Sasha has said that warming up three quads is almost impossible under competition conditions. I wonder if that includes a 3A too; would warming up two quads and a 3A also be too much?
 
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