2019-20 European Men's figure skating | Page 2 | Golden Skate

2019-20 European Men's figure skating

tzazu

Medalist
Joined
Dec 24, 2014
I know. It was the wrong question for this thread. Don't be sorry, it’s not a big deal. After all Russians are Europeans as well :biggrin: I’ll do some changes in my original post so it’s clear that this thread is for the non Russian men. All good :)
I think the question is good, because last years, while Javier was competing, Russian men have been the biggest rivals, though from time to time showed up other rivals to take the podium (silver and bronze, the gold for Javi 😍), like Amodio, Bychenko, Brezina or Matteo.
 

sheetz

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 10, 2015
TBH, I think Rizzo is the one to watch. Quadless two years ago, he's now attempting two quads in the short. And overall he seems more steady and less prone to implosions than the Russians.
 

Ice Dance

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 26, 2014
TBH, I think Rizzo is the one to watch. Quadless two years ago, he's now attempting two quads in the short. And overall he seems more steady and less prone to implosions than the Russians.

He seems that way. But if one watched his final junior season, one noted that while he skated beautifully in seniors most of the time, he mucked up in most of his junior events where medals & titles were actually on the line.

I think he's a lovely skater! But I think the steadiness comes with lack of expectations & pressure. When the pressure is on, I'm not so sure the steadiness remains.
 

SnowWhite

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 30, 2016
Country
Canada
He seems that way. But if one watched his final junior season, one noted that while he skated beautifully in seniors most of the time, he mucked up in most of his junior events where medals & titles were actually on the line.

I think he's a lovely skater! But I think the steadiness comes with lack of expectations & pressure. When the pressure is on, I'm not so sure the steadiness remains.

Not sure if I agree with that assessment. He only skated 3 junior events in his last junior season, 2 JGPs and JW. The only one that he truly "mucked up" was his first JGP, which was one week after Nebelhorn, where he qualified an Olympic spot for Italy skating senior. And he did really well at Nebelhorn - was an Olympic qualifier not a pressure skate? It's not exactly surprising that he would be tired, both emotionally and physically, competing the next weekend. And I'm sure he would have been focusing on his senior programs too (not that different, but still), since Nebelhorn was obviously the priority.

Then he won his 2nd JGP event.

JW were not his best skates, but they weren't too bad and he did medal. And that was not very long after the Olympics, where he skated 4 programs. And we all know how exhausting many skaters find the Olympics.
 

Colonel Green

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 3, 2018
Country
Canada
Deniss managed a medal at Nepela Memorial, but at this point I'm very worried about the general direction of his skating. Even setting aside the weird programs (Lambiel has done a lot of excellent work, but his packaging for Deniss has gotten progressively stranger, and not in a good way, in my view), he's clearly nowhere near getting a quad and his triple Axel is about as reliable as Lambiel's was. This just will not cut it for medals at major ISU competitions, and after some of his Olympic season results made it look like he was on an upward trajectory, he's been sharply downward since.
 

eppen

Medalist
Joined
Mar 28, 2006
Country
Spain
Did Lambiel really have a 3A? :scratch2: He did try it occasionally, but not very successfully... In that sense Deniss fares a little better. But otherwise I mostly agree with Colonel Green. The strangeness of the programs pleases me, though, because Deniss is able to deliver their emotional content with conviction and credibility - he has no problems in that department.

On the tech side, though, he is going backwards IMO. His confidence going into jumps is not as good as it has been, the looooooooong entry into the 3A is again there, not even attempting the 4T. I was also struck by his slowness which is sometimes hard to evaluate accurately on the screen. So I watched him from before and there seemed to be a difference. My observation is also supported by the number of crossovers he does in the FS - there were not that many there in 2016 in the Benoit Richaud program when he already had the same jump content. Now he needed 15+ crossovers to get enough speed to do a single 3Lz in the 2nd part. That is about half of the number of crossovers the top guys are using to produce their entire jump content.

So, I am really wondering what are they doing there in Champery? If he is not able to get into the more difficult jumps, then his chance to do well at least at the European level would be to take the road chosen by Jason Brown (or Satoko Miyahara): add superior quality to every other aspect of his skating. (Jason has absolutely no problems with producing and maintaining speed with minimum number of crossovers.)

I hope the upward trajectories of Matteo Rizzo and Kevin Aymoz continue from the positive first competitions! I hope for also non-Russian skaters on the Euro podium!

E
 

Tolstoj

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
With Deniss you have to go back to summer 2016 when he moved from Urmanov to Lambiel.

Under Urmanov's coaching he was working on quad toe, and quad lutz, with Lambiel they prefer to work on skating skills and it shows, he's a great skater but with no quads it's going to be tougher every season.
 

pohatta

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 15, 2005
Did Lambiel really have a 3A? :scratch2: He did try it occasionally, but not very successfully...

At 2006 Worlds he did it in both programs, although SP was a little wonky. At 2005 Worlds (which he also won) he did it in the SP.
 

eppen

Medalist
Joined
Mar 28, 2006
Country
Spain
Are you serious? Did Tutberidze/Dudakov/Orser/Briand/Arutunian have 4Lz?

:laugh: I at least most just mostly thinking of a comparison of tech content between the two, not so much of Lambiel's ability to teach.

A coach certainly does not have to have the tech know-how for his/herself, but they do have to be able to transmit the info and get their student to do it right. I think eg that the Team Tutberidze tends to have poorer Axels than many other jumps (the Lutz technique has also been discussed...). Kostornaia has an amazing 2A and she had it before going to Tutberidze. I am just really wondering why it is not evolving into a 3A - it's not as if we don't know she trained it. Is Eteri not able to get it done or is there sth else there? As far as I know, Deniss is his first skater that really has (had) promise.

All Deniss has now he had before Lambiel, even the spins although so many people seem to think that was Lambiel's achievement. So, I wonder what is going on. Work is being done, but the results don't look too convincing at the mo. Let's hope better things come with the remainder of the season...

E
 

sheetz

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 10, 2015
I don't think Deniss has a huge incentive to find a different coach even if it's not working out in his current position. He's in no danger of losing his spot as Latvia #1, and his connection with Lambiel gets him tons more show invitations than he would receive were he with a different coach.
 

Colonel Green

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 3, 2018
Country
Canada
I don't think Deniss has a huge incentive to find a different coach even if it's not working out in his current position. He's in no danger of losing his spot as Latvia #1, and his connection with Lambiel gets him tons more show invitations than he would receive were he with a different coach.
The incentive would be if he has any ambitions of being a real international contender.
 

aname

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 4, 2018
I didn't watch the Denis Ten Memorial men's competition live I just checked out Daniel Albert Naurits's performances on YT (SP, FS) and found out that he made the podium! Nice! I really like him.

I tried to find his fan fest but it seems he doesn't have one?
 

Valoszka

Spectator
Joined
Jan 21, 2019
So happy for Alexandr Selevko! He scored third in FS at Finlandia Trophy(139, 68 TES, almost 71 PCS, 206 Total). This year he's already qualified to Worlds. He improved a lot since last Europeans, +10 points to his Pb Total, got 3A). Hope it's only the beginning for him!
 

MaHa75

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 5, 2018
Estonia got 3 quite strong men this year. Daniel Albert Naurits who is training in Moscow got this weekend in Denis Ten Memorial 3rd place and 210 points. Then Aleksander Selevko who is more artistic got Finlandian Trophy 206 points. And beside these two we have Mihhail Selevko ( Aleksander younger brother). Brothers will compete together next week in Minsk!
 

medoroa

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 30, 2017
The incentive would be if he has any ambitions of being a real international contender.

I do wonder if he does? I've been wondering about his ambitions lately. If he has no such ambitions it's fine, that's his decision and his life, but he went for both 3A and 4T at Japan Open so Lambiel and him must have some level of ambition.

I don't know if this is because he's focusing more on jumps now, but I feel like his SS was better under Urmanov and his programs these last two seasons haven't been the best... losing to Aliev in PCS I get, but losing to SAMARIN (who bombed!) in PCS is not a good sign wrt how the judges see him.
 

icetug

Medalist
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
but losing to SAMARIN (who bombed!) in PCS is not a good sign wrt how the judges see him.

I'm not sure but wasn't Samarin seen as Russian no 1 when Kolyada is off for a while? I mean judges can do everything, including deflating Satoko's and Yuzuru's PCS for some reasons :no:. So Samarin got better PCS than Deniss in SP, but when judges saw Aliev was way better, Samarin got 3.3 points lower PCS than Deniss in FS. So I wouldn't use this quite silly scores from SP as an indicator of Deniss' skating skills ;).
 

Nirti

Medalist
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Yaroslav Paniot is switching to USA?!?

He's listed for the Southwestern Pacific Regionals this weekend...
 
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