Blade wear - should I replace? | Golden Skate

Blade wear - should I replace?

EstPrepare

Spectator
Joined
Nov 15, 2014
Hi all!

I have had my current boots/blades for the last 5 years (bought mid-2014). The boots are still in good condition/supportive but I am a little concerned about the blades.
I was skating twice a week for maybe 2 years of those 5 years and once a week for the remainder working on single jumps, basic spins and footwork.

Here are photos of my current blades - Ultima Aspire XP (came as a boot blade combo with my Jackson Competitors) including a comparison to my Dad's newer blades of the same make.
https://i.imgur.com/ScfuesW.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/KfRc0GO.jpg?1

I am concerned that the spin rocker is moving back and there is limited life left for sharpening in this front portion of the blade. Is this normal?

If I do need new blades (am very unsure and do not trust my pro-shop to give me good advice) what would you recommend? I believe the Aspires are quite basic. Would it be worthwhile moving on to something like a Coronation Ace or MK professional?

Thanks,

Claire
 

hanyuufan5

✨**:。*
Medalist
Joined
May 19, 2018
That is definitely not normal (that wavy bit near the toe pick! :jaw:). You definitely need new blades as well as new boots and a more experienced sharpener. I don't know enough about them to recommend anything in specific, though.
 

Ic3Rabbit

Former Elite, now Pro. ⛸️
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 9, 2017
Country
Olympics
Hi all!

I have had my current boots/blades for the last 5 years (bought mid-2014). The boots are still in good condition/supportive but I am a little concerned about the blades.
I was skating twice a week for maybe 2 years of those 5 years and once a week for the remainder working on single jumps, basic spins and footwork.

Here are photos of my current blades - Ultima Aspire XP (came as a boot blade combo with my Jackson Competitors) including a comparison to my Dad's newer blades of the same make.
https://i.imgur.com/ScfuesW.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/KfRc0GO.jpg?1

I am concerned that the spin rocker is moving back and there is limited life left for sharpening in this front portion of the blade. Is this normal?

If I do need new blades (am very unsure and do not trust my pro-shop to give me good advice) what would you recommend? I believe the Aspires are quite basic. Would it be worthwhile moving on to something like a Coronation Ace or MK professional?

Thanks,

Claire

I'm surprised you haven't injured yourself trying to jump in those blades. They aren't for the skills you are now doing, the jumps, etc. You weren't supposed to wear them past basics.

Yes, get yourself a more advanced intermediate level blade, Pro, Coro Ace or if you like the Ultima blades, the Protege XP would work or the Legacy 8.

I'd have my boots looked at too, they're probably long past their day in the sun.
 

WednesdayMarch

Nicer When Fed
Medalist
Joined
Mar 24, 2019
Country
United-Kingdom
I think you need a different pro shop and sharpener!

New blades, definitely. Ic3Rabbit gives good advice.
 

sandraskates

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 31, 2006
Country
United-States
Somebody sure did a number on the spin rocker portion of those blades. Yes, time for new ones. And time to find a better sharpening technician.
 

Bill S

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 31, 2019
Country
United-States
I agree that the spin rocker has been affected the most. I also see a little rounding of the main rocker.

While I didn't have Aspire blades to work with, I did want to see how different that the worn blades would be compared to a Coronation Ace. I happen to have the same blade length (10-1/4") which makes the comparison easier.

http://www.afterness.com/skating/images/misc/aspire_blade_wear_comparison.jpg

I always trace the rocker of brand new blades onto a sheet of paper to have as a reference over time. That was overlaid in Photoshop to compare to your blades. The composite image in the link above shows massive difference in the spin rocker area. That can also be seen compared to the chrome relief size, and in the first picture that you linked comparing skates.

The main rocker has been reduced from the normal 8' that Jackson uses for many of their blades to approximately the 7' main rocker of the Aces. However that's not as significant as the spin rocker alterations.

As others have said, it's time for new blades! Look for a new sharpener too.
 

annajzdf

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 31, 2018
I had the same blade/boot combo and my blades looked exactly the same (a little bit worse even i.e. flatter I'd say) after 3 years (skated more often than OP though) and I also took such photos comparing old to new Aspires (and to Gold Seal blades as well) since I happened to find those in the same size displayed in our shop, with similar results.

Maybe that's just how the Aspire profile changes after a certain amount of sharpenings? By that I mean, that the flat shape of the profile simply becomes more visible with time, and is not as apparent and better masked on a new blade, which is inherently rounder? Because otherwise I'd have to change sharpeners too, and that's simply not an option. :sad4:


That is definitely not normal (that wavy bit near the toe pick! :jaw:).

I always assumed that's just the 'end point' at which the sharpener stops running the grinding stone across the blade? I thought that part isn't touching the ice anyway, so it shouldn't be a problem?


I'm surprised you haven't injured yourself trying to jump in those blades. They aren't for the skills you are now doing, the jumps, etc. You weren't supposed to wear them past basics.

I'd have my boots looked at too, they're probably long past their day in the sun.

Wait, what? In what way could you injure yourself jumping singles in those blades? :scratch2:
I've never had any issues on my jumps when I wore these, I literally only fell 5 times over the course of 3 years (usually messing up the take-off, only once upon landing, thanks to the 8' rocker I'm sure).
No joint, foot or overuse problems (relative, for an untrained recreational skater) either. :shrug:

The toepicks are rather big and grip the ice nicely (pretty sure MK Pro, Coro Ace and Gold Seals all have less aggressive ones, although their placement in relation to the rest of the profile could make the difference of course).

Obviously you're not getting the biggest lift on edge jumps and take-off was rather scratchy on edge jumps as well (bottom toe-pick scratching the ice) due to the overall flatter blade profile. But a friend of mine, who has skated as a child, observed the same with his more advanced Ultima blade. So this doesn't seem related to the level of the blade, but more so the way Ultima's blade profiles are constructed.

And not saying everything Jackson says must be true and real life experience from skaters can prove a manufacturer wrong of course, but still, afaik Jackson claimed (back when they were still producing and selling them) that this boot combo is rated up to single Axel.
 

Ic3Rabbit

Former Elite, now Pro. ⛸️
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 9, 2017
Country
Olympics
I had the same blade/boot combo and my blades looked exactly the same (a little bit worse even i.e. flatter I'd say) after 3 years (skated more often than OP though) and I also took such photos comparing old to new Aspires (and to Gold Seal blades as well) since I happened to find those in the same size displayed in our shop, with similar results.

Maybe that's just how the Aspire profile changes after a certain amount of sharpenings? By that I mean, that the flat shape of the profile simply becomes more visible with time, and is not as apparent and better masked on a new blade, which is inherently rounder? Because otherwise I'd have to change sharpeners too, and that's simply not an option. :sad4:




I always assumed that's just the 'end point' at which the sharpener stops running the grinding stone across the blade? I thought that part isn't touching the ice anyway, so it shouldn't be a problem?






Wait, what? In what way could you injure yourself jumping singles in those blades? :scratch2:
I've never had any issues on my jumps when I wore these, I literally only fell 5 times over the course of 3 years (usually messing up the take-off, only once upon landing, thanks to the 8' rocker I'm sure).
No joint, foot or overuse problems (relative, for an untrained recreational skater) either. :shrug:

The toepicks are rather big and grip the ice nicely (pretty sure MK Pro, Coro Ace and Gold Seals all have less aggressive ones, although their placement in relation to the rest of the profile could make the difference of course).

Obviously you're not getting the biggest lift on edge jumps and take-off was rather scratchy on edge jumps as well (bottom toe-pick scratching the ice) due to the overall flatter blade profile. But a friend of mine, who has skated as a child, observed the same with his more advanced Ultima blade. So this doesn't seem related to the level of the blade, but more so the way Ultima's blade profiles are constructed.

And not saying everything Jackson says must be true and real life experience from skaters can prove a manufacturer wrong of course, but still, afaik Jackson claimed (back when they were still producing and selling them) that this boot combo is rated up to single Axel.

I'm telling you and OP as a Pro that those blades are not rated for jumping and more advanced movement. I know injury well and do not advise skaters to attempt beyond their rating of their boot which are rated for basic moves/skills AKA learn to skate basics for kids. But if one wants go against rating and advice to risk an ankle or other injury, then one can only blame themselves. I believe OP said that they don't trust their skate fitter and so what are the odds they advised him/her wrongly about the rating to get a boot/blade combo out the door?

As far as Ultima blades, I'm not a fan, and I've tried/tested pretty much every blade out there.

OP, I understand your friend skated as a child, but that doesn't give much experience. You came here and asked us: We will give you more of a variety of answers and won't lead you wrong. I'm saying this as a former elite international competitor now pro.

I wish you and OP luck and hope you don't get injured (I also hope you already don't have an injury that hasn't showed itself yet).

OP, You need a new boot and blade (separate not combo). Also, find a figure skating fitting pro that isn't your past person and a new sharpener.
 

annajzdf

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 31, 2018
I'm telling you and OP as a Pro that those blades are not rated for jumping and more advanced movement. I know injury well and do not advise skaters to attempt beyond their rating of their boot which are rated for basic moves/skills AKA learn to skate basics for kids. But if one wants go against rating and advice to risk an ankle or other injury, then one can only blame themselves. I believe OP said that they don't trust their skate fitter and so what are the odds they advised him/her wrongly about the rating to get a boot/blade combo out the door?

As far as Ultima blades, I'm not a fan, and I've tried/tested pretty much every blade out there.

OP, I understand your friend skated as a child, but that doesn't give much experience. You came here and asked us: We will give you more of a variety of answers and won't lead you wrong. I'm saying this as a former elite international competitor now pro.

I wish you and OP luck and hope you don't get injured (I also hope you already don't have an injury that hasn't showed itself yet).

OP, You need a new boot and blade (separate not combo). Also, find a figure skating fitting pro that isn't your past person and a new sharpener.

Thank you for taking the time to answer. Hm, but I still don't understand what exactly or which aspects make those blades unsuitable for single jumps in a way that could result in an injury, I mean, what did you not like about them? :confused:

I'm asking, because I have at least one other friend still skating in them, and she's a teenager, currently working on single Axel. And just like me, she also has never had any trouble with all her other singles, but of course I don't want her skating in blades that are dangerous for her (although I'm more than twice her age, so if anyone gets an injury, it's more likely me than her I'm afraid :laugh:).

Also, shouldn't someone contact Ultima and make sure they stop spreading wrong information on those blades?


OP, I understand your friend skated as a child, but that doesn't give much experience.

I only mentioned that, since this means he most likely will have better or a more correct technique on edge jumps than myself as an adult beginner, which means the scratchy take-offs on edge jumps were more likely a result of Ultima's flat blade profiles than me simply having bad technique.
(also, since my take-offs, as well as those of my friend, have instantly become 'non-scratchy' once we switched blades, it's safe to say that reasoning was correct)
 

Ic3Rabbit

Former Elite, now Pro. ⛸️
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 9, 2017
Country
Olympics
Thank you for taking the time to answer. Hm, but I still don't understand what exactly or which aspects make those blades unsuitable for single jumps in a way that could result in an injury, I mean, what did you not like about them? :confused:

I'm asking, because I have at least one other friend still skating in them, and she's a teenager, currently working on single Axel. And just like me, she also has never had any trouble with all her other singles, but of course I don't want her skating in blades that are dangerous for her (although I'm more than twice her age, so if anyone gets an injury, it's more likely me than her I'm afraid :laugh:).

Also, shouldn't someone contact Ultima and make sure they stop spreading wrong information on those blades?




I only mentioned that, since this means he most likely will have better or a more correct technique on edge jumps than myself as an adult beginner, which means the scratchy take-offs on edge jumps were more likely a result of Ultima's flat blade profiles than me simply having bad technique.
(also, since my take-offs, as well as those of my friend, have instantly become 'non-scratchy' once we switched blades, it's safe to say that reasoning was correct)

They are rated for NO JUMPS. So don't jump on them, it's that simple. Jumping on a blade that isn't rated for it, then alone the OP's one that is messed up by their sharpener results in even higher possibility for injury. IDK what's so hard to understand here.
 

Ykai

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 6, 2019
Thank you for taking the time to answer. Hm, but I still don't understand what exactly or which aspects make those blades unsuitable for single jumps in a way that could result in an injury, I mean, what did you not like about them? :confused:

I'm asking, because I have at least one other friend still skating in them, and she's a teenager, currently working on single Axel. And just like me, she also has never had any trouble with all her other singles, but of course I don't want her skating in blades that are dangerous for her (although I'm more than twice her age, so if anyone gets an injury, it's more likely me than her I'm afraid :laugh:).

Here is recommendation from Jackson website.

https://jacksonultima.com/pages/jackson-fit-guide


I assume the combo you got is higher than or similar to Jackson Freestyle.
 

annajzdf

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 31, 2018
This is what I found on the Jackson Ultima website for the Aspire XP blade.

https://jacksonultima.com/products/aspire-xp

It doesn't mention jumps, let alone an axel.

"This blade provides a more secure pick position on toe jumps and footwork."

Also:
https://jenskates.com/products/jackson-competitor-aspire-xpladies-skates-dj2470
https://usaskates.com/jackson-competitor-boot-dj2400/

"Jackson Support Rating: Firm Support - Level 55
Single Jumps / Axel"

I am aware these are just some random online shops and not Ultima's official site, but those shops copy & paste what the manufacturer's site says (or used to say in the case of this boot/blade combo, since that site ceased to exist when Jackson/Ultima reworked their product range)

Now I realise that jump rating is probably based on the stiffness level of the boot. Nevertheless, why would a company such as Jackson/Ultima put out a boot/blade combo with a boot with sufficient stiffness for single jumps up to Axel (and specifically mention this in the product description) but then pair it with a blade that is dangerous to jump with? Common sense tells me something here.

And I have yet to hear an actual explanation on what exactly would make this blade dangerous for jumping singles. Is it gonna snap in half or what?
Usually introductory blades don't have a proper toe-pick for jumps and that's what makes them unsuitable, but that is certainly not the case with the Aspire blades. And their 8' rocker makes jump landings more secure even, which is certainly an advantage for beginners.
 

MCsAngel2

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 10, 2019
Because the vast majority of people buying these boots and blades are kids, and the ratings are relative to their weight. In fact, Jackson recently updated a chart so you can see which boots are rated for what level according to weight ranges because it's so confusing. I'm a beginner, but because of my weight, I'm wearing Debut Fusions. When I begin jumps, I'll upgrade to Premeires, which are rated mostly for doubles because most skaters are much younger and lighter. I wouldn't want to be learning jumps on a beginner blade like Aspire, but a kid could do so, safely.

I've rarely ever seen this mentioned, but the thing with the blades has something to do with the quality of the steel, or the production method, or something. It's the whole reason that there even is such a thing as beginner vs intermediate vs advanced blades. Coming down from a jump applies torque to the blade, and the heavier a skater is, the more torque there is. (And also, the more revolutions the jump is, the more torque there is). Too much torque on the blade = blade snaps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nlp1L42JEhM

Check out the blade comparison chart at Skaters Landing if want to know how blades are rated:

https://skaterslanding.com/pages/blade-comparison-chart
 

annajzdf

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 31, 2018
Because the vast majority of people buying these boots and blades are kids, and the ratings are relative to their weight. In fact, Jackson recently updated a chart so you can see which boots are rated for what level according to weight ranges because it's so confusing. I'm a beginner, but because of my weight, I'm wearing Debut Fusions. When I begin jumps, I'll upgrade to Premeires, which are rated mostly for doubles because most skaters are much younger and lighter. I wouldn't want to be learning jumps on a beginner blade like Aspire, but a kid could do so, safely.

I've rarely ever seen this mentioned, but the thing with the blades has something to do with the quality of the steel, or the production method, or something. It's the whole reason that there even is such a thing as beginner vs intermediate vs advanced blades. Coming down from a jump applies torque to the blade, and the heavier a skater is, the more torque there is. (And also, the more revolutions the jump is, the more torque there is). Too much torque on the blade = blade snaps.

Pretty sure Jackson/Ultima are aware of the fact that over the past decades more and more adults as well as older teenagers started picking up the sport, they know their market. If a blade was only safe for usage for young children, they would make sure to label it as such.
As a company, why would they risk putting their customers at danger (especially the ones from the US lol)?

Their own chart, which Ykai shared, mentions different categories of weight for when boot stiffness is concerned, but they don't make that same distinction for their blades, it actually says "All skaters". And according to that chart, the Aspire blade is rated for singles.

So as long as the manufacturer himself doesn't caution against using a certain blade above a certain weight for a certain skill, I'm gonna assume it's strong enough.

That chart of course is just a guideline, but if someone is overweight, they're probably aware of the fact that they're not the average customer Ultima is designing their figure skating equipment for. Or at the least the hopefully well informed salesperson/fitter will be.

(Also many of our adult skaters actually weigh less than some of our teenagers, I'd say 2/3 are in a range between 50-65 kg. That's more than a child of course, but they should be still safe using products that are designed for teenagers/young adults.)
 

Nimyue

On the Ice
Joined
May 15, 2018
TBH OP it looks like your sharpener is sharpening your figure skaing blade in the same manner as the hockey blades.... So normally you'd probably have more life left in them, but your sharpener has ruined them. Also after wearing a pair of entry level boots for 5 years and jumping, I highly doubt they have adequate support any longer. Get yourself to a qualified fitter and pick up new boots and blades, and not a combo set either! If you're an adult doing all of your single jumps, it's time for the boot and blade to be bought separately.
 

EstPrepare

Spectator
Joined
Nov 15, 2014
Thankyou all for your prompt answers. Just wanted to confirm before I spent a significant sum of money! Hoping my skating will improve in the long run as a result :)

Thanks again

Claire
 

bostonskaterguy86

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 3, 2018
Country
United-States
Thankyou all for your prompt answers. Just wanted to confirm before I spent a significant sum of money! Hoping my skating will improve in the long run as a result :)

Thanks again

Claire

I am generally quicker to assume my struggles are due to myself and not my equipment, but I will say that upgrading from Ultima Mirages to MK Pros did wonders for me! Having a rounder blade with a more prominent spin rocker made it so much easier to learn where to place my weight during three turns and backwards skating. I think you’ll find that having a better blade helps quite a bit.
 

Flying Feijoa

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 22, 2019
Country
New-Zealand
I am generally quicker to assume my struggles are due to myself and not my equipment, but I will say that upgrading from Ultima Mirages to MK Pros did wonders for me! Having a rounder blade with a more prominent spin rocker made it so much easier to learn where to place my weight during three turns and backwards skating. I think you’ll find that having a better blade helps quite a bit.

I made the exact same upgrade a few years ago. Apart from the spin/turn benefits, I was pleasantly surprised to not find myself tripping on my toepicks and getting swollen knees every month!
That would always happen with my old Mirages, perhaps because the rocker (which was flatter to begin with) was practically erased by some people who sharpen hockey skates so there was barely any heel lift remaining.
 

EstPrepare

Spectator
Joined
Nov 15, 2014
I am generally quicker to assume my struggles are due to myself and not my equipment, but I will say that upgrading from Ultima Mirages to MK Pros did wonders for me! Having a rounder blade with a more prominent spin rocker made it so much easier to learn where to place my weight during three turns and backwards skating. I think you’ll find that having a better blade helps quite a bit.

I had assumed my struggles were relating to myself! (and realistically still do) I only even noticed because I was examining my blades to check the edges were still sharp etc as I dried them off. Even still, I hadn't even thought of it being any other issue that having no room left to sharpen at the front of the blade until I started doing more research into 'blade anatomy' for lack of a better word and discovered that that was where my spin rocker should be -_-

While I still blame my own lack of practice time it is nice to know that once I actually adjust to the new blades I might notice a difference

:thank: Thanks again everyone!
 
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