2019 Japan Open: Thoughts and Highlights

TontoK · Oct 7, 2019

WeakAnkles said:
I've watched three JGPs this season, in whole or mostly part, and the judging has been pretty spot on so far. You might quibble about some of the points here and there on PCS/GOE but the placements have been pretty much spot on.

ssfww? ssffww? You ok? I think ssffww fainted!

I've only watched a few JGP performances, but not a whole competition. But your post prompted me to try and remember when the last competition was that I thought the outcome was completely unjustified.

And I really can't think of one. People squabble over a point or two of PCS and whether a jump was truly rotated or not... but on the whole, I think the judging has been pretty on point for the past couple of years.

Oh, sure, I might disagree that the placements are exactly where I'd have put them, and whether a skater really merits the love (or disdain) they get from the judges... but that's all opinion-based. I don't recall the last time someone REALLY and GLARINGLY got hosed by the judges in the final result.

Noxchild · Oct 7, 2019

One thing I was surprised by was that there were no pairs/ice dance selections this year; didn't the Shibs skate at JO last year? Again, if Japan wants to drum up more interest in pairs/ice dance, having one slot per team for each discipline every year would be great. Like, imagine Daisuke Takahashi with Kana Muramoto skating at JO a couple of years from now... that would be a lot of fun

Jeanie19 · Oct 7, 2019

yume said:
My highlight is the moment i realized that Shangai Trophy should become a CS and Japan Open stay a joke.

What does CS mean?

Clairecz · Oct 7, 2019

Noxchild said:
One thing I was surprised by was that there were no pairs/ice dance selections this year; didn't the Shibs skate at JO last year? Again, if Japan wants to drum up more interest in pairs/ice dance, having one slot per team for each discipline every year would be great. Like, imagine Daisuke Takahashi with Kana Muramoto skating at JO a couple of years from now... that would be a lot of fun

I don't remember whether ShibSibs skated directly at JO (not competing but during a break) or only at Carnival on Ice afterwards.... But this year, there were Meryl Davis/Charlie White at CaOI.

Fluture · Oct 7, 2019

Jeanie19 said:
What does CS mean?

Challenger Event, as in part of the Challenger Series, I think?

nussnacker · Oct 7, 2019

Another notable moment: Alexandra being totally unrelatable as she was telling Deniss in the k&c how she again fell short of breaking a tes of 100 and feels upset by it.

Deniss was nodding, but probably thinking „this kid is crazy!“.

Good Vibes Only · Oct 7, 2019

nussnacker said:
Another notable moment: Alexandra being totally unrelatable as she was telling Deniss in the k&c how she again fell short of breaking a tes of 100 and feels upset by it. Deniss was nodding, but probably thinking „this kid is crazy!“.

Hahaha that is so true

alexaa · Oct 7, 2019

Noxchild said:
One thing I was surprised by was that there were no pairs/ice dance selections this year; didn't the Shibs skate at JO last year? Again, if Japan wants to drum up more interest in pairs/ice dance, having one slot per team for each discipline every year would be great. Like, imagine Daisuke Takahashi with Kana Muramoto skating at JO a couple of years from now... that would be a lot of fun

It has always been single’s event since 2006. The Shibs were invited for Carnival on Ice last year, the gala which is held after the team competition. Meryl and Charlie were invited to perform this year. Jason was invited to perform for CaOI last year along with Nathan and Jeremy who were also invited for the team competition.
See the guest skaters for CaOI last year, 2018
https://www.tv-tokyo.co.jp/coi2018/skater.html
CaOI skaters 2019
https://www.tv-tokyo.co.jp/coi2019/skater.html

Dai is in Carnival on Ice this year, and there was scenes he was practicing ice dance with Meryl during the Carnival on Ice practice
start around 0:58 mark
https://youtu.be/eF9M6aopzIE

Japan Open is a no pressure, but fun team event. It is not a joke or no sense event. Retired skaters like Jeremy invited all the time. The line up is pretty impressive each year, and Carnival on Ice is equally impressive. I wish there are more events like JO where skaters will debut their programs with not that much pressure, yet guaranteed prize money. Each skater gets 10,000 even if the team finished last. They are paid separately for their appearances in CaOI afaik.

List of skaters in past Japan Open competition.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Open_(figure_skating)

skatergurl7 · Oct 7, 2019

ssffww said:
If I ever popped into this forum and saw a post praising the judging, I might have a heart attack. It's the same whining every event. But, no one ever agrees on the focus of the whine.

Haha same. The only event I think the judging did a great job was the olympics. All the podiums were spot on (although I would’ve put Kaetlyn ahead of evgenia in the short)

Skater Boy · Oct 7, 2019

nussnacker said:
Another notable moment: Alexandra being totally unrelatable as she was telling Deniss in the k&c how she again fell short of breaking a tes of 100 and feels upset by it. Deniss was nodding, but probably thinking „this kid is crazy!“.

LOL probably because he can't score that well tes wise lol

Skater Boy · Oct 7, 2019

skatergurl7 said:
Haha same. The only event I think the judging did a great job was the olympics. All the podiums were spot on (although I would’ve put Kaetlyn ahead of evgenia in the short)

LOL I kind of thought the same thing about Kaetlyn's sp. There is something about Rochette and Osmond that kind of gets underrated. They actually have probably some of the best if not the best skating skills - watch the edges, the cleannes, thepower, he drive, the flow. But there were great champions in Yuna and Alina so how can one complain but compare their skates to medal winners like Debi Thomas, Sasha Cohen, Kira ivanova, Dagmar Lurz, - these Canadians won bronze with brilliant skates and talent.

Elucidus · Oct 7, 2019

nussnacker said:
Another notable moment: Alexandra being totally unrelatable as she was telling Deniss in the k&c how she again fell short of breaking a tes of 100 and feels upset by it. Deniss was nodding, but probably thinking „this kid is crazy!“.

In fact she was.. quite rude in expressing it (i.e. using some swearing words) - which triggered nervous laughter from Denis - but it obviously wasn't meant to be heard by public. Unfortunately she wasn't aware how sensitive Japanese microphones can be and tabloids are hurrying to make some scoop already at sports.ru and probably some other sites. She was lucky they decided to omit swearing part - but complaining about judging usually are frown upon by judges so it can have some negative consequences for her. Anyway I am sure that Eteri already scolded her properly which most likely results in her more controlled behavior in K&С. Which greatly saddens me tbh - as I like Sasha for her rambunctious attitude very much.

KatGrace1925 · Oct 8, 2019

I really really want Trusova to be developed into a full package skater. I think she could do more choreography wise, her quads are getting stronger. I hope they are able to put together more interesting programs for her cause I think she could really develop well artistically but I personally don’t think she is there yet. The music choice is partially to blame, they should have picked game of thrones pieces with a bit more power given what she was putting out. It seemed they picked muted pieces and the program construction was odd.

Edwin · Oct 8, 2019

Elucidus said:
In fact she was.. quite rude in expressing it (i.e. using some swearing words) - which triggered nervous laughter from Denis - but it obviously wasn't meant to be heard by public. Unfortunately she wasn't aware how sensitive Japanese microphones can be and tabloids are hurrying to make some scoop already at sports.ru and probably some other sites. She was lucky they decided to omit swearing part - but complaining about judging usually are frown upon by judges so it can have some negative consequences for her. Anyway I am sure that Eteri already scolded her properly which most likely results in her more controlled behavior in K&С. Which greatly saddens me tbh - as I like Sasha for her rambunctious attitude very much.

And Fernandez was watching all this Russian language banter smiling serenely, grandfatherly sort of ...

Clairecz · Oct 8, 2019

Edwin said:
And Fernandez was watching all this Russian language banter smiling serenely, grandfatherly sort of ...

This sums it up best: https://twitter.com/crazykuroneko/status/1180400528238374914?s=20 :luv17:

Sometimes I wonder if Javi remembers some Russian but I don't think so. In a video from a fan meeting during Rostelecom sometime around 2015 he and Florent try to count to ten in Russian but get to five maybe :biggrin:

CanadianSkaterGuy · Oct 8, 2019

nussnacker said:
Another notable moment: Alexandra being totally unrelatable as she was telling Deniss in the k&c how she again fell short of breaking a tes of 100 and feels upset by it. Deniss was nodding, but probably thinking „this kid is crazy!“.

Uh, yeah... his personal best TES is 83.20 and under the new system 69.71. I can imagine that being a bit awkward lol.

CanadianSkaterGuy · Oct 8, 2019

KatGrace1925 said:
I really really want Trusova to be developed into a full package skater. I think she could do more choreography wise, her quads are getting stronger. I hope they are able to put together more interesting programs for her cause I think she could really develop well artistically but I personally don’t think she is there yet. The music choice is partially to blame, they should have picked game of thrones pieces with a bit more power given what she was putting out. It seemed they picked muted pieces and the program construction was odd.

I'm not too concerned yet. It's her first senior season. I think the 63 PCS sends a message that even with 4 quads, you'd better have a program to go with it, and artistic qualities. She's a Boyang Jin in some respects, but I'm hoping she will be able to achieve a better balance of tech and artistry. Consistently she doesn't have the best PCS (as it should be), although hopefully she is motivated to improve upon that because with her tech advantage she really doesn't need to in order to comfortably win, at the moment.

Elucidus · Oct 8, 2019

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
I'm not too concerned yet. It's her first senior season. I think the 63 PCS sends a message that even with 4 quads, you'd better have a program to go with it, and artistic qualities. She's a Boyang Jin in some respects, but I'm hoping she will be able to achieve a better balance of tech and artistry. Consistently she doesn't have the best PCS (as it should be), although hopefully she is motivated to improve upon that because with her tech advantage she really doesn't need to in order to comfortably win, at the moment.

No, I don't agree with judges here. Not because I see some big artistry in Trusova's performance - but because of judges double standarts. In fact, if the same program with the same jumps was skated by a man - it would recieve much higher PCS (and I am not talking about factoring difference here). Moreover, it is quite common to have 2/3 of the free of multiquadsters men as a jumping drill - and even Nathan is not exception here. Yet if that is a woman - it's suddenly is a fault while for men it's not even viewed as something deserving lowering PCS - such skating is natural and expected of them. Judges admits the right of men to have both feminine and masculine programs and can acclaim both ways of expressing yourself - but they denies the right for women to have masculine programs to be assessed positively - so they just can't see it as a proper program at all unless it's a feminine skating.
Either you should raise the PCS for multiquadsters women to the level comparable of top men - or lower the PCS of multiquadsters men for having jumping drills instead of programs. If you are not gonna do it - I will continue to consider complains about lack of Trusova's artistry or claims about her deservedly low PCS as hypocritical crap.

CanadianSkaterGuy · Oct 8, 2019

Elucidus said:
No, I don't agree with judges here. Not because I see some big artistry in Trusova's performance - but because of judges double standarts. In fact, if the same program with the same jumps was skated by a man - it would recieve much higher PCS (and I am not talking about factoring difference here). Moreover, it is quite common to have 2/3 of the free of multiquadsters men as a jumping drill - and even Nathan is not exception here. Yet if that is a woman - it's suddenly is a fault while for men it's not even viewed as something deserving lowering PCS - such skating is natural and expected of them. Judges admits the right of men to have both feminine and masculine programs and can acclaim both ways of expressing yourself - but they denies the right for women to have masculine programs to be assessed positively - so they just can't see it as a proper program at all unless it's a feminine skating.
Either you should raise the PCS for multiquadsters women to the level comparable of top men - or lower the PCS of multiquadsters men for having jumping drills instead of programs. If you are not gonna do it - I will continue to consider complains about lack of Trusova's artistry or claims about her deservedly low PCS as hypocritical crap.

You're right to some extent, but there have been plenty of men who have lit it up technically but have still had their PCS kept at bay in the past - Nguyen, Reynolds, Gogolev, Zhou, and Jin. Not saying they all deserved hugely higher PCS, I'm just saying that sometimes they'll do a ton of quads but their PCS needle doesn't move much.

I don't think Trusova suffers from not being feminine enough - there are tons of skaters who skate programs that aren't dainty/flowy/lyrical (e.g. Suzuki's Kill Bill, Fernandez's Black Betty, Higuchi's Skyfall) but still score high -- because they bring the level of performance and the choreography is still interesting and intricate.

Essentially what I'm trying to say is, Trusova's lack of artistry isn't because of her programs being packed with jumps so much as not having particularly interesting choreo in between, and even the choreo she does have is performed mechanically, with stiff arms, etc.

ssffww · Oct 8, 2019

WeakAnkles said:
I've watched three JGPs this season, in whole or mostly part, and the judging has been pretty spot on so far. You might quibble about some of the points here and there on PCS/GOE but the placements have been pretty much spot on.

ssfww? ssffww? You ok? I think ssffww fainted!

2019 Japan Open: Thoughts and Highlights

TontoK

Hot Tonto

Noxchild

Jeanie19

Clairecz

Fluture

nussnacker

one and only

Good Vibes Only

alexaa

skatergurl7

Skater Boy

Skater Boy

Elucidus

Match Penalty

KatGrace1925

Edwin

СделаноВХрустальном!

Clairecz

CanadianSkaterGuy

CanadianSkaterGuy

Elucidus

Match Penalty

CanadianSkaterGuy

ssffww

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