Most complete female skater during the IJS Era | Page 5 | Golden Skate

Most complete female skater during the IJS Era

Ophelia

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 6, 2013
^I don't associate consistency with scoring. Consistency equated to delivery, which has to do with skater themselves, while scoring is in judges hands.

Kim is a consistent skater because she delivers and doesn't have total meltdowns. You aren't biting your nails when watching her skate. For me, it doesn't have to do with what her scores are. In the same vein I would consider Miyahara a consistent skater.

Re: scoring, I would consider Kim one of the least held up skaters.
 

Nightcrawler

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 25, 2014
^I don't associate consistency with scoring. Consistency equated to delivery, which has to do with skater themselves, while scoring is in judges hands.

Kim is a consistent skater because she delivers and doesn't have total meltdowns. You aren't biting your nails when watching her skate. For me, it doesn't have to do with what her scores are. In the same vein I would consider Miyahara a consistent skater.

Re: scoring, I would consider Kim one of the least held up skaters.

Me neither; the lack of meltdowns is a good indicator and she definitely delivered most than any other skater in the early IJS era. Personally, I don't consider Kim particularly consistent nor particularly inconsistent (in skating terms, she was neither a Kwan nor a Pogorilaya), although I do recognise she was good when it mattered the most but not in the occasions I posted (and others, where I feel she didn't deliver). Scoring wise, I consider her the least wuzrobbed skater of her time, so we'll have to agree to disagree there.

To be fair, the complete faith that most/all medallists will skate clean and without major errors is relatively new (from Sochi onwards). Nail-biting was the major theme of all international competitions ever since I can remember with very few notable exceptions, pretty much like the men's competition is today. Introducing multiple quads will probably shift the ladies event towards a splat-fest and I'm not sure I like it.
 

AshWagsFan

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For me, it has to be either Yuna or Mao. Yuna had absolutely textbook jumps while being an absolutely serene performer with great skating skills. She was the total package. And Mao was also brilliant, giving us consistent triple axels for over a decade while also having such passionate, beautiful programs that always consisted of gorgeous step sequences, spins, and skating skills to die for.

Each woman skated with her whole heart in every performance, and they had the technical skills to back it up.
 

Skater Boy

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Joined
Feb 24, 2012
I have no idea how you break the "ties". Arguments can be made for Sasha Cohen but she never won gold at a major event. Michelle Kwan definitely did not have her best years during IJS when she skated and she never learned how to maximize her points ie spins and spirals. Irina Slutskaya to me was never strong enough artistically. Yuna Kim was consistent if you look for that and quite a beautiful overall skater but she also was missing the loop. Mao was a very complete skater when on. Not as consistent as Kim but then again her jumps had issues like Evgenia even when she worked on it. I suppose when on Joannie Rochette was very complete but she like Cohen never won gold at a major event. Evgenia to me was very complete but skating skills weren't as good as I was hope - ditto for Zagitova. Kaetlyn Osmond actually is very complete but she too had edge issues with the lutz - though not as bad as some ie Mao, Evgenia. The Russian baby ballerinas have not skated long enough or won a major event to be included yet but those are just y standards. Kostner to me is a contender for this title despite her inconsistency
 

jenaj

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Aug 17, 2003
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I have no idea how you break the "ties". Arguments can be made for Sasha Cohen but she never won gold at a major event. Michelle Kwan definitely did not have her best years during IJS when she skated and she never learned how to maximize her points ie spins and spirals. I

Michelle only skated under IJS one time. I don't think she can be included in a comparison of skaters in the IJS era.
 

silveruskate

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 20, 2019
Not skating two clean programs together ever is a big black mark for me. She went for a lot so I get it, but she always fell or stumbled on at least one jump between programs. And most of her URs were URs in my opinion. She's one of the hardest workers and a great skater, but she had an UR problem and it isn't just on the triple axel. I'm not even thinking about consistency itself, but Yuna has brought out both her programs together cleanly at least once in her career before and that's important. Did Kostner ever skate two programs cleanly ever either?
 

bubblecherry

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 20, 2018
Well, I think the IJS system tells you itself what it thinks. The most decorated skaters (major competitions won, WRs, etc) under IJS are Yuna, Evgenia, Alina Z.

My personal favorites? Evgenia and Mao, I suppose.

Skaters who are extremely talented but need more time to write their legacy before including them in lists like this? Aliona K. Rika K.
 

mrrice

Record Breaker
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Jul 9, 2014
Before the jumping beans arrived....I have to go with Evgenia or Tuk. They have both had brilliant moments.
 

jenaj

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Well, I think the IJS system tells you itself what it thinks. The most decorated skaters (major competitions won, WRs, etc) under IJS are Yuna, Evgenia, Alina Z.

My personal favorites? Evgenia and Mao, I suppose.

Skaters who are extremely talented but need more time to write their legacy before including them in lists like this? Aliona K. Rika K.

Mao won 3 World Championships, an Olympic silver medal, 4 Grand Prix Final golds, 3 Four Continents golds and 6 Japan National Championships. She belongs with the most decorated.
 

labgoat

I have no words
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The first one that came to my mind when hearing this question was Yuna Kim. I think that‘s quite an obvious choice, she‘s had everything from technique to artistry to other elements. The only thing I could say she was missing was flexibility and her spins weren‘t as good as some of her competitors. But all in all, she comes closest to the definition of “complete“.

Imo, EVERY skater is incomplete, that‘s human, none of us is perfect. We just have those that come close to it, but that will always include a grain of subjectivity.

Like, my second choice would be Asada, Medvedeva and Kostner. And all three of them have significant flaws.

Asada‘s had problems with URs and of course that infamous flutz. Still, she had a 3A and good spins and great artistry (I actually prefer it to Yuna’s) and is undoubtedly one of the legends of this sport. Is she “complete“, however? No. Not in the sense Yuna was but then I believe Yuna is a very, very rare skater and even she wasn’t perfect.

Now, I think that this trio of Kim, Asada and Kostner was probably the best rivalry skating has ever had. As for Carolina... she has gorgeous jumps. When she lands them. And that’s often a problem, as far as I know she’s never been consistent. Her artistry is top notch, though (she‘s my favourite out of the three) and she definitely is a legend. Especially her Sochi performances come to my mind when hearing the word “complete“

Medvedeva. Ah, I‘ve seen this one‘s controversial again and I do understand it. Her jump technique isn‘t the best and even though she’s spending time to improve it, she still has that equally as infamous flutz. But in my opinion, that one flaw shouldn‘t override the other qualities she has that make her come close to complete: Artistry, consistency, the right personality (as in star quality). But yes, I get why some wouldn’t name her. But I think this argument can be made for basically everyone (even Kim) depending on what one’s own definition of “complete“ is.

Some of the others that have been named here were Kihira and Kostornaya. I’m a fan of both and think they could all contend in the future. Especially Kihira who has great jumps and spins and whose FS last year was a true masterpiece. However, I’d still say (and especially after seeing her programs this year) that she needs a few more years to grow artistically. She’s good, great actually, and I strongly believe that when asked in a few seasons I‘ll answer differently, but for now she’s just not there yet for me. Pretty much the same for Kostornaya. It’s still too early to say where they’ll go with their skating.

But that’s just my take on it. :)

Having revisited 2003-2010 Worlds, I have to agree that this was the best rivalry ever. Each lady was marvelous in her own way and best of all each one got to be the winner also. You could add-in an early Miki Ando. In her prime she had it all.
 

labgoat

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I'm actually surprised I've been asked to argue for this, because to me it's so self-evident! She had excellent jump technique (I'm not only talking of her 3A but her general takeoff technique and her ability to do 3T and 3Lo as second jumps), good spins (very centered and fast, good strong basic positions such as a low sit -- IJS level requirements have very little to do with basic quality), enormous speed (I've even seen it argued that she was bad at figures precisely because she had too much speed and figures need to be done at a steady, slow pace), fantastic projection that the audience and media alike responded passionately to even before she started doing 3A in competition. I'm more confused as why she wouldn't be considered a good, well-rounded skater. Her only flaws were buckling under Olympic pressure and not being "traditionally pretty and elegant" (irrelevant to judging someone as a skater).

Midori also has quite a bit of difficult entries into those jumps and spins as well a some very complicated connecting steps in her footwork done a great speed. Midori is just such a joyful skater.

1988 SP https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wl3PelmX05M
1988 FS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyu8GYBRIjE

(by the way, when did 3Axel1996 site go down).
 

jenm

The Last One Degree
Medalist
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Jan 28, 2014
So happy that Yuna is being recognised as the most complete female skater.
To add to her amazing technical prowess and topnotch musicality and performance quality, everything she does is SEAMLESS.
She doesn't look back when attempting a jump, doesn't ever look like she's preparing for her next move. Her movements are just seamlessly woven together. She was never ahead or behind the music.
I wish she keeps on skating on ice shows. No one ever touched me like Yuna did with her skating. And what a genuine, gentle soul who keeps on helping the needy.

Of the current crop, I think Rika and Alyona are two I am most excited to see develop into more mature skaters. They have the goods to show for it, both technical and artistic. NHK is such an exciting event.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
I don't know how anyone could watch Alena skate today and not have her at the top of the list. If you compare her spins, steps, each triple, artistry, etc. with any other skater ever, I think Alena's strengths/weaknesses would outweigh their's. She doesn't have the accomplishments of Yuna/Mao/Caro/Evgenia yet, but as far as being a complete skater with few weaknesses, Alena tops them (for me).
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

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Joined
Jan 25, 2013
I don't know how anyone could watch Alena skate today and not have her at the top of the list. If you compare her spins, steps, each triple, artistry, etc. with any other skater ever, I think Alena's strengths/weaknesses would outweigh their's. She doesn't have the accomplishments of Yuna/Mao/Caro/Evgenia yet, but as far as being a complete skater with few weaknesses, Alena tops them (for me).

I would like to see what programs she has to offer before putting her right up there. She's definitely the total package, but for me, a complete skater also means they're versatility in their artistry capability and while Alena is good, she doesn't exactly have enough of a sample size to say for certain. She certainly has the potential to be the most complete of the IJS era (for now), but I want to see what range she has.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
I would like to see what programs she has to offer before putting her right up there. She's definitely the total package, but for me, a complete skater also means they're versatility in their artistry capability and while Alena is good, she doesn't exactly have enough of a sample size to say for certain. She certainly has the potential to be the most complete of the IJS era (for now), but I want to see what range she has.

That's a fair point. Yuna and Mao had a lot of versatility in the type of programs they could skate to. Caro too, but to a lesser extent. I think Satoko's artistic versatility tops anyone's, but those jumps.
 

lusterfan

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 23, 2018
I would like to see what programs she has to offer before putting her right up there. She's definitely the total package, but for me, a complete skater also means they're versatility in their artistry capability and while Alena is good, she doesn't exactly have enough of a sample size to say for certain. She certainly has the potential to be the most complete of the IJS era (for now), but I want to see what range she has.

I think Alyona's two programs have a decent contrast. "Angel" vs "Vampire" as cliche as it sounds. Her SP is a softer lyrical piece that emphasizes her classical poise. Skate elegantly to the music and look picturesque. In contrast, her FS is an unconventional rocky piece where she's playful and has fun. From the teasing hop to the sassy head bobs - the music is but a backdrop for her to showcase her personality and she works it!

Looking back to her junior programs, she gave you a quintessential Carmen. She jazzed it up with the Adios Nonino tango. She even lifted a bland Romeo and Juliet and made it look pretty. She has quite the underrated range! I don't think she's shown an insane range yet, but watching her skate shows me that she is more than capable. Unfortunately she's at the mercy of Daniil's program composition, but it seems as though he may start getting inventive for Alyona especially as she wins more. I won't proclaim her the most complete skater just yet, but she's sure looking like one of the main candidates!

And to be completely honestly, we are now in the transitionary period where the bar of technical elements is pushing into the next echelon. As these skaters focus on adding more difficulty, they inevitably have to lessen their focus on the performance and choreography. Look at Sasha, with all those quads, there's hardly any room for choreo. I have no doubt we will get to the point where the ladies jumping quads and triple axels will still bring out well articulated programs, but it will take time. Look at the men - there are only a handful of men who can hit the quads and perform.
 

Nightcrawler

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 25, 2014
I don't know how anyone could watch Alena skate today and not have her at the top of the list. If you compare her spins, steps, each triple, artistry, etc. with any other skater ever, I think Alena's strengths/weaknesses would outweigh theirs. She doesn't have the accomplishments of Yuna/Mao/Caro/Evgenia yet, but as far as being a complete skater with few weaknesses, Alena tops them (for me).

Since Alyona is a first-year senior, I think it's fair to compare them with Yuna/Mao/Caro in their first year as well, in which case she's clearly on top (Yuna had the better lutz, but Alyona is better on everything else). Watching the Saint Trinity grow and mature into the beautiful skaters they would become makes me hope that Alyona can too. She's got the goods for sure.
 
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