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Thread: Skaters with proper technique: appreciation thread

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    Skaters with proper technique: appreciation thread

    I think the skaters with proper technique deserve much more recognition, much higher GOE and of course much higher placements. Especially that there are sooo many skaters with poor technique nowadays (who cannot perform toe pick assisted jumps at all).
    Karen Chen's true lutz:
    deep outside edge, toe pick assisted
    https://ibb.co/KhcqgCb
    true lutz entry
    https://ibb.co/rdFwXw3
    Elizaveta Tuktamysheva's true lutz:
    https://ibb.co/sWnmMLw
    https://ibb.co/gSdcfXm
    Yuna Kim's true lutz:
    https://ibb.co/nDm5vdh
    https://ibb.co/QPhMXQj
    Other skaters with proper technique - Carolina Kostner, Alexia Paganini, Tomoe Kawabata, Yuzuru Hanyu, Nathan Chen, Jin Boyang.
    Do you know any other skaters with proper technique?

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    And of course - the king of 4lutz Mikhail Kolyada: https://youtu.be/XGPhymzFSfo

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    what about Rika Kihira?

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    I may be wrong. But I think Wakaba Higuchi has a really nice lutz. I am so happy for her comeback in Skate America.
    Edit: Nope. It's a shallow outside edge. But still I love her other jumps.

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    Proper technique deserves more recognition/GOE but completely disagree it should deserve a higher placement. Liza for example struggles to compete with her teammates because she lacks in other departments...below average skating skills, weak spins, few transitions, slow speed, and distinct lack of choreography other than hand signals.

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    On the Ice medoroa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NadezhdaNadya View Post
    (who cannot perform toe pick assisted jumps at all).

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    On the Ice ruga's Avatar
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    She is having troubles with jumps at the moment, but Mako Yamashita has a high (someone measured and hers was the highest or one of the highest) and properly executed 3Lutz. Actually, most of her jumps are very nice.
    https://youtu.be/7H7DX2um-5k
    https://youtu.be/xuCZJhtGNrc

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    On the Ice medoroa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maagii View Post
    I may be wrong. But I think Wakaba Higuchi has a really nice lutz. I am so happy for her comeback in Skate America.
    Edit: Nope. It's a shallow outside edge. But still I love her other jumps.
    Shallow outside edge is an outside edge. Shallow inside edge is an inside edge.

    And with that, I'm leaving this thread.

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    I wonder why skaters who got edge call on Flip are list as "proper technique".

    Isn't it just a habit taking off on left outside edge?

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    Hahaha..although I can recognise good technique sometimes (like Elisaveta's 3 Axel), I wouldn't dare say the technique from other skaters isn't proper. Who decides what proper technique is? If you do your lutz on an outside edge it's pretty proper to me. And if you manage it with your own technique (which some might not call good), but it's an outside edge and you land it nicely, who would I be to say this one needs lower GOE? Okay, I'm out too....

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    Quote Originally Posted by denise3lz View Post
    I wonder why skaters who got edge call on Flip are list as "proper technique".

    Isn't it just a habit taking off on left outside edge?
    This. I also wonder why when they say about "proper" technique - it's always lutz and only lutz?
    Speaking about lutzes and correct edges btw
    https://ibb.co/qBQTKf9
    https://ibb.co/KKNfC8F
    not only Liza's lutz is never appreciated enough - she was shamelessly and wrongly called on her lutz in Las Vegas - while Bradie's and others top three skaters flat/wrong edges were ignored. We can't even begin to speak about any appreciation of jumps until so clearly biased tech panels will be dealt with at least. Until then there is zero point in executing/learning classic lutzes with proper edge if they are not going to be assessed as they should. Why bother if being lucky/unlucky with certain type of tech panels, nationality and place of competition plays much more important role?

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    Is this thread supposed to be about "proper technique" on lutzes, or toe jumps, specifically? If so, can the title be edited to clarify?

    Or is it a place to celebrate good technique on other skills as well?

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    Medalist KatGrace1925's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NadezhdaNadya View Post
    I think the skaters with proper technique deserve much more recognition, much higher GOE and of course much higher placements. Especially that there are sooo many skaters with poor technique nowadays (who cannot perform toe pick assisted jumps at all).
    Karen Chen's true lutz:
    deep outside edge, toe pick assisted
    https://ibb.co/KhcqgCb
    true lutz entry
    https://ibb.co/rdFwXw3
    Elizaveta Tuktamysheva's true lutz:
    https://ibb.co/sWnmMLw
    https://ibb.co/gSdcfXm
    Yuna Kim's true lutz:
    https://ibb.co/nDm5vdh
    https://ibb.co/QPhMXQj
    Other skaters with proper technique - Carolina Kostner, Alexia Paganini, Tomoe Kawabata, Yuzuru Hanyu, Nathan Chen, Jin Boyang.
    Do you know any other skaters with proper technique?
    Gracie Gold has always had a beautiful Lutz, beautiful deep edge and good flow in and out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KatGrace1925 View Post
    Gracie Gold has always had a beautiful Lutz, beautiful deep edge and good flow in and out.
    Gracie does not have proper technique at all - she jumps both lutz and toe loop with full blade:
    https://youtu.be/vAQGoOdH0b0
    I am going to watch videos of the other suggested skaters tomorrow.

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    In regards to this thread, all I know is that I am not amused when Elizaveta keeps getting not as high or even negatvie GOEs when compared to her contemporaries for her Lutz.

    Even before the UR was declared, she was already getting a negatvie GOE for having an exit slightly off of being impeccable. If it was someone making a same exit with a shallow or flat edge but with a hand over the head gimmick, you could bet bottom dollar that the jump would have still received a favourable GOE.

    At this point I really think judges had a criteria to strictly follow to give an extra GOE for a closely followed technique.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warwick360 View Post
    In regards to this thread, all I know is that I am not amused when Elizaveta keeps getting not as high or even negatvie GOEs when compared to her contemporaries for her Lutz.

    Even before the UR was declared, she was already getting a negatvie GOE for having an exit slightly off of being impeccable. If it was someone making a same exit with a shallow or flat edge but with a hand over the head gimmick, you could bet bottom dollar that the jump would have still received a favourable GOE.

    At this point I really think judges had a criteria to strictly follow to give an extra GOE for a closely followed technique.
    But that's the point of scoring. You get - for the bad things in your jump ( for example a fall, bad landing ecf.) and + for the good things ( for example difficult entry, good high ect.). Landing and edge is not the only thing scored by a jump...

    And what is this obsession with the lutz jump? It's as if people are only looking for excuses to bash a skater. What about other flaws? Just because a skater has a correct lutz, this doesn't mean all is right and we should ignore flaws this skater has- for example a wrong Flip edge or UR's

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    Good technique only doesn't win titles or put your name high in the history books. I keep reading that Michelle Kwan didn't have a "good technique" but she dominated figure skating in the 90 and history remembers her as one of the greatest. I don't get this trend of shaming skaters because they don't have "proper" technique. Ok, penalise the skaters if the international rules made by the government body of this sport say that they are doing badly a certain jump or skill. Not by internet experts.

    I always hated the word "proper" and the expression "text book". By what standards, by what book? Technique can vary from schol to school, from country to country. It's only one "proper" way of doing jumps? What are the actual official rules comparing to the rules made up by fans online because they like a certain skater and they use him/her as a standard? It's confusing to say the least

  18. #18
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    Its hard to find skater with proper technique on all of their jumps, if i must choose probably Kostner. Tuktamysheva also but with her flip edge being iffy now im not sure... Yuna also have quite iffy flip sometimes.

    As for per jump
    Lutz
    - Elizaveta Tuktamysheva
    - Yuna Kim
    - Carolina Kostner
    - Tomoe Kawabata
    - Mako Yamashita
    - Rika Kihira
    - Alexia Paganini
    - Nana Araki

    Flip
    - Carolina Kostner
    - Mako Yamashita
    - Rika Kihira

    Loop
    - Kaori Sakamoto
    - Evgenia Medvedeva
    - Ashley Wagner
    - Mirai Nagasu

    Salchow
    - Evgenia Medvedeva
    - Wakaba Higuchi

    Axel
    - Wakaba Higuchi
    - Yuna Kim
    - Kaori Sakamoto
    - Adelina Sotnikova
    - Mirai Nagasu

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    I think Rika has good technique on all of her jumps with the possible exception of the 3 loop. (she takes off correctly for the 3loop but her air position is strange). She is certainly the only skater that I can think of who has a clear outside edge on the lutz, inside edge on the flip, and a good 3 axel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabby30 View Post
    But that's the point of scoring. You get - for the bad things in your jump ( for example a fall, bad landing ecf.) and + for the good things ( for example difficult entry, good high ect.). Landing and edge is not the only thing scored by a jump...

    And what is this obsession with the lutz jump? It's as if people are only looking for excuses to bash a skater. What about other flaws? Just because a skater has a correct lutz, this doesn't mean all is right and we should ignore flaws this skater has- for example a wrong Flip edge or UR's
    Don't deviate from the crux of my argument. If a skater raises their hand and gets a great clean exit, does not excuse the fact that their edge is below par. Same goes to when the jumper does a bad skid on the jump exit and yet there is a buffer simply because of raised arm routine. That gimmick has gotten too old and quite clearly is not a good enough reason to not get a negative GOE.

    At no point did I say that mistakes should be ignored. I just don't accept the reason for dinging point on one scenario and not the other. But congratulations on your attempt at trying to twist my words.

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