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Thread: 2019 Skate America: Day 2 - Thoughts and Highlights

  1. #41
    GS Supporter ladyjane's Avatar
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    I watched the pairs and men in total, then went to sleep, and watched a few of the ladies' skates and Free Dances (well, just the top 3 of both disciplines)

    Pairs
    My favourite discipline, but some of the falls last night were really scary. I'll start with a big hurrah for Zoe and Christopher. I always love seeing them, and even though they were last, there's always much to admire there. Ekaterina and Harley looked better than in the short, mostly because they seemed to be friends a bit more. But those throws are really very wrong, with Ekaterina rotating on the wrong axis and then falling. She was in a lot of pain too. Assisted jumps these are not. I always like watching Camille and Andrew, if only because Camille can actually fall gracefully and then continue within the rhythm. That's a feat. They also show good skating in my view. It definitely wasn't Ashley and Tim's day. A real shame because I rather like this pair because of their nice lines and their height differential being small. They've improved on their lifts generally speaking, but botching one completely last night was really tough luck. Nasty fall as well. Jessica and Brian were a nice surprise, even if the SBS jumps were a disaster. Haven and Brandon were also a surprise because they landed all their jumps (if not perfectly) and they have amazing lifts and moves, and I'm referring to the choreographical ones, not the official pairs lifts which had some interesting entries and finishes too. Daria and Denis were, in my view that is, better in the short as they turned back to a more junior way of skating for the Free. Still, SBS 3F's are great to see. Peng also had a scary fall, but on the whole their Free was really nice to watch. And their chemistry has grown so much since they first paired up, a bit against their own wishes if I recall correctly. Great for them to get a Gold, but I do hope they will improve on their jumps and levels.

    Men
    First my beloved grandpa's: regrettably Michal did not deliver (never seen so many pops unless one also counts Romans skate in which the doubles looked intended) but Alexei did quite well. No bresnaissance it seems. I love the other Alex's skate too, his Dracula is just such fun. Junhwan is a graceful skater, but last night wasn't his night. Don't want to talk about Boyang. Keegan was not at his best, and he realised it too. Not concentrated, but there are reasons for that. Kazuki was a joy to watch (he always is). I was so pleased Dmitri did well. A bit of tiredness at the end, but still a good skate. Jason was sublime (again, in my view) and simultaneously I observed that he can do even better - even without introducing a quad. A big promise for the season. And Nathan had a fabulous step sequence - next to again showing his technical prowess. It was a pity the tech box and the scores kept falling away though...without commentary such things really are necessary even for somebody who has been watching FS for many years.

    Ladies and Ice Dance.
    Regarding the ladies: Bradie really has improved a lot, good for her! i liked her SP even better but this was good too. Anna is ethereal in some ways. Like she's made of glass, but of course that's nonsense. No weak poppet can jump 4 luzes like she does! I am a big fan of Liza's, but I have to admit that her FS is a bit empty apart from her wonderful jumps.
    To be honest, none of the Dances made my heart beat faster. I only watched the top 3 and though there was good skating (Maddy and Zach for example are very solid), I did not get moved by any of the them. Perhaps I'll go and watch a few others to see whether there's more to feel there!

    That's it for now.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoneWithTheWind View Post
    Just my opinion based on my first viewing, please don't be mad!

    I certainly know that feeling...

  3. #43
    Tripping on the Podium eppen's Avatar
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    Stayed up for men again, and this time woke up for the last group in the ladies. (Yawn now.)

    For whatever reason, Jason has never been able to move me with his skating. And despite the stellar performance technically, beautiful finish and all, my attention started to wonder after a minute or so. Maybe one day... I had hoped for slightly better skate for Dima - it was not bad, but not very good either. And the judges sure punished him for every crime he committed with rather heavy hand. I was just happy to realize that one of his big past problems - not having enouh stamina to last through the free - seemed not to exist any more. I hope he gets energy from this result to keep getting better and better until the judges have to pay attention and start rewarding his good performances. In the Day 1 thread, someone quoted Johnny Weir who complimented Dima's great use of upper body, shoulders, back and arms, and for once, I agree with Johnny. One of the things why Dima's skating looks so good is just that...

    Nathan is an amazing competitor - I think he calculates exactly what he needs to do to win each competition and does just what is necessary to get a good outing and win... Not perfect again, but this was the first full comp of the season and getting the world top scores in (I think) every category for men (TES, PCS, total, for both SP and FS) is not a bad result. IMO music from one artist as a "theme" is a non-starter - you could just as well choose random songs and the end result would be equally "themed". The hiphop ChSq is excellent, but it just has nothing to do with the rest of the choreo and music, but in the end that does not matter because there is no atual idea behind the whole thing. And this all with the non-costume pyjama top... They could go for an over the top Elton John style costume for the Worlds?! This will probably not be my fave FS of this season, but the SP is in contention still.

    The ladies were hard to watch with a Wakaba melt-down and all. Kaori and Matrix fit together as poorly as Kaori and sass the other day. There was certainly an attempt to make it look Matrix cool with the fight moves and the costume, but I wonder will Kaori ever get the coolness and the sharpness to make it look really WOW! Of all the Eteri girls around at the mo, Anna is probably my least favourite. She has the 4Lzs, but relatively little else that would make her interesting. She has better movement and finish than Trusova, but is lightyears behind Kostornaia in that respect. Like with Jason, she was not really capable of holding my attention beyond the Lutzes. Even with mistakes in the SP and in other jumps, those quads will be enough to keep her on the podium.

    Having seen Tuk in Finlandia Trophy, it was interesting to watch her on screen. I think others have already said what also I think she should do - a Jason Brown treatment of general quality to the movement, attention to getting all the other aspects just right, in general not giving huge amounts of points away just by looking sloppier than the top girls. That is however not Mishin's strong point, so I am not expecting it to happen. Also, watching it live accentuated some of the choreo shortcomings which were not so visible on TV: eg the Axels are basically a section of their own at the start, followed by the actual program.

    I did predict the winners and men's podium correctly, but Bradie and Tuk surprised me in the ladies...

    E

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    Quote Originally Posted by lariko View Post
    Ah, I think Jin Boyang took the one for the team with his Day 1 top where the costumes are concerned. After that one, everything else is a marvel. In fact, I think he might have cleared the way for the whole season for everyone to dress however they want now.
    I beg to differ. He shares the honors with Alexei K. In fact, I thought Alexei's was worse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mishaminion View Post
    Maybe it is a little unfair to blame Eteri entirely for those body/eating issues, skaters that have had nothing to do with her have gone through similar issues, Gracie Gold and Akiko Suzuki for example.

    Alina Zagitova looks to be in fine shape, as does Alena Kostornaia. Sasha Trusova is compact but muscular. Perhaps Anna Shcherbakova is just genetically fragile looking.
    If I’m being honest, I wouldn’t be surprised to find out many skaters from all over working with various coaches had disordered eating. However in this case we can put together all
    Of the stories and quotes we’ve seen over the years to come to the conclusion that Eteri encourages disordered eating in her very young students and has completely unrealistic expectations of what a body does in the aging process.(the “at 18 a girl gets a mother’s body” quote still makes me rage.)People don’t want to hear it, but it seems as obvious as the sky is blue to me. There’s a difference between genetically small and frail. How anyone could look at Anna and see healthy is beyond me. I wish her well, she’s just a child doing some crazy things with her body that we have no idea of the long terms effects.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NanaPat View Post
    I beg to differ. He shares the honors with Alexei K. In fact, I thought Alexei's was worse.
    I think it's the colour of Jin's that made it worse for me, it just looked like a yellow stained white shirt suggesting something rather gross

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mishaminion View Post
    I think it's the colour of Jin's that made it worse for me, it just looked like a yellow stained white shirt suggesting something rather gross
    It looks like he spilt melted butter down the crevasses of his white shirt.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndiaP12 View Post
    It looks like he spilt melted butter down the crevasses of his white shirt.
    That's a far less gross description than the one I used in the SP thread

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    Quote Originally Posted by VegMom View Post

    Surprised when it seemed like Keegan ran out of steam. Watching him I thought he got hurt but later talking with others we thought maybe he didn't build up enough endurance or maybe he was having issues of grief and couldn't connect. Also, someone threw a stuffie out for Michal Brezina but it didn't make it to the ice and instead it hit Keegan in the head! Maybe it had glass eyes and gave him a welt? who knows...
    .
    He did look like he had a bump on his forehead.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by evasorange View Post
    If I’m being honest, I wouldn’t be surprised to find out many skaters from all over working with various coaches had disordered eating. However in this case we can put together all
    Of the stories and quotes we’ve seen over the years to come to the conclusion that Eteri encourages disordered eating in her very young students and has completely unrealistic expectations of what a body does in the aging process.(the “at 18 a girl gets a mother’s body” quote still makes me rage.)People don’t want to hear it, but it seems as obvious as the sky is blue to me. There’s a difference between genetically small and frail. How anyone could look at Anna and see healthy is beyond me. I wish her well, she’s just a child doing some crazy things with her body that we have no idea of the long terms effects.
    I don't think it's entirely wrong to point out how women's bodies change due to puberty, hormonal influences do encourage more body fat to settle on certain areas of women's bodies to help with child bearing. Women become prone to a higher body fat percentage than men as well, this is fine and healthy. None of that means they cannot compete though. I don't see that Eteri outright encourages eating disorders, she seems like a coach who is hands off, don't ask, don't tell in this regard. The skater's job in her rink is to turn up in the shape and readiness to work, if not fine, there's always someone else to focus on. It has been stated by multiple Eteri skaters that they are weighed everyday and cannot deviate in weight by 200 grams. People defend this method to the hills, but it's silly. Once a week weigh ins are more than fine, what is weighing someone everyday going to tell you that a weekly weigh in isn't? It seems to me Eteri doesn't tell her skaters what or what not to eat, just that they meet the weight expectations and how they do it is up to the skater. Perhaps she sees that if the parents at home allow the skater to eat how they do, it's not her business or her responsibility *shrugs*. I kind of imagine a lot of coaches have this approach, the coach can also distance themselves from the consequences through ignorance, even if this ignorance is deliberate.

    Eteri skaters are smaller than others though, especially non Russians. 2018 olympics podium, Osmond's torso was twice as "thick" as Alina and Zhenya's. Japanese skaters like Kihira, Higuchi, Sakomoto, all look stronger and healthier compared to Eteri skaters. Yes size does not tell all, I know. I know people will argue that Eteri skater's results speak for themselves and smaller frames are more consistent. I don't know. All I can say is it seems odd to me a skater of elite status who trains hours a day cannot maintain at least a minimalist diet in terms of calories and nutrients. This isn't really the thread for this though, I apologize for that.

  11. #51
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    Kaori has the BEST skating skills in the world!!!

    Just give her 10s !!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by NanaPat View Post
    I beg to differ. He shares the honors with Alexei K. In fact, I thought Alexei's was worse.
    I thought AK’s top was an unfortunate choice, but it could be (arguably?) inspired by Russian shawls designs. Maybe he is connecting to his roots there. Maybe he is recycling the layers Scherbakova is prone to shedding. Maybe he is keen to explore his feminine side. Who knows.

    JB’s costume looked like they didn’t test in the bright lights for the impact it would have. That combination of yellow and white overshadowed everything. Charitably, it brought to mind a rag used for cleaning floors. Uncharitably, I’m sure you i’m Not the only one who thought of what I thought. It was a relief when he put the team jersey on... it made me think fondly of Junghwa Cha’s last year’s institutional purple.

    His exhibition top is also not that great, but that shirt... a bad idea.

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    Quote Originally Posted by evasorange View Post
    Because she’s not training in a healthy environment. Two of Eteri’s biggest students have come out saying they didn’t eat enough so their bodies were weak. One even had to seek treatment for it. Eteri herself has made many disconcerting remarks over the years. Anna already has that concerning fragile look. Connect the dots.
    Well, what about Gabby Daleman who said she had an eating disorder under Orser? Or what about Gracie Gold who used to train with Carroll? Does that mean that Orser and Carroll mistreat their students? Stop spreading false conspiracies just because you don't like a certain coach. Saying she has a "concerned fragile look" is just as rude as saying someone is too fat for figure skating.

    It's way too early to make predictions about whether someone's quads will survive puberty or not. Enjoy what's going on now, there's no need to wish for a teenager to lose their jumps while masking it as "oh I'm just concerned" based on "remarks over the years"

  14. #54
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    While I can understand some of the posters' concerns and I don't think it comes from a malicious place, it's well known that eating disorders are rampant in figure skating (just as they are in gymnastics, ballet, and probably many other sports as well where your figure and weight matter). This has been discussed ad nauseum in other threads, so I don't mean to rehash it here. I could make many other comments about my suspicions regarding other skaters but I won't. I guess my personal stand on this is that we don't know what is really going on with the skater in their environment, and we are not their doctor/family/nutritionist/coach/friends, etc. We can wish them good health, and hope that the people around them who can make a difference will watch and take care of them. Eating disorders are often lifelong, and yes, you can be a top competing athlete and still have an eating disorder. I think it's funny when people say, "well so and so is jumping and skating so well, so clearly they don't have an eating disorder." Many people with eating disorders are actually highly successful, high functioning individuals, and part of what led to their eating disorder is the need for control, their perfectionist tendencies. In any case, I can have private concerns about certain athletes, but I personally don't like publicizing them, as I don't think it is my place to do so, and I really don't know what is going on. Others may disagree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seruleane View Post
    In any case, I can have private concerns about certain athletes, but I personally don't like publicizing them, as I don't think it is my place to do so, and I really don't know what is going on.
    Yes! If you don't know what's going on, there's no need to come up with conspiracy theories based on old interviews or someone's looks.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mishaminion View Post
    Maybe it is a little unfair to blame Eteri entirely for those body/eating issues, skaters that have had nothing to do with her have gone through similar issues, Gracie Gold and Akiko Suzuki for example.

    Alina Zagitova looks to be in fine shape, as does Alena Kostornaia. Sasha Trusova is compact but muscular. Perhaps Anna Shcherbakova is just genetically fragile looking.
    These young women probably burn close to 10,000 calories on an average day in training. None of them are going to be heavy. Plus, Anna has that look of being naturally slight. I don't think she looks "starved."

    This isn't to say there are not eating disorder issues in skating, and other sports for that matter, that need to be addressed. But I'm not buying into any theory that paints a broad brush.

    Edit: 10,000 calories is probably a high estimate. I didn't account for their current weight and age... but they would easily burn more than a typical woman of that size and age would eat in a day.

  17. #57
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    Requiring daily weigh-ins is a sure way to encourage questionable eating habits, even if the coach herself doesn't get involved in how much or what they eat.
    All of Eteri's girls are in daily competition with one another, and all are trying to be top dog. They are all young and focused on what happens today---they will do whatever they think they have to do to get the edge on the others, and if that means eating as little as possible, they won't be one whit concerned with long term effects.

    I suspect that Eteri chooses carefully the girls she takes on, and checking out parental size and weight is probably a major consideration.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Requiring daily weigh-ins is a sure way to encourage questionable eating habits, even if the coach herself doesn't get involved in how much or what they eat.
    All of Eteri's girls are in daily competition with one another, and all are trying to be top dog. They are all young and focused on what happens today---they will do whatever they think they have to do to get the edge on the others, and if that means eating as little as possible, they won't be one whit concerned with long term effects.

    I suspect that Eteri chooses carefully the girls she takes on, and checking out parental size and weight is probably a major consideration.
    What you are doing is body-shaming.

    Yuzuru Hanyu also said he weighs himself daily. I guess he trains under Orser so he can't get an eating disorder?

    Why are you making so many assumptions about Eteri's students trying to "get the edge on the others" by "eating as little as possible"?! Yes, they may compete against each other but they are also very friendly with each other. Where is the evidence that they don't eat to get an advantage over their peers?? Who said they don't eat and that they don't care about the "long term side effects." That's the funniest conspiracy I've heard yet!! All of these things you've said are only crazy speculations. Just because someone like Anna is built like that doesn't mean they have an eating disorder. Nobody goes around saying Kostornaya is starving herself, do they? Stop putting words in their mouths.

    Also, do you really think Eteri wouldn't accept a talented skater because their parents may be curvier or taller? That's an outrageous assumption. What about Kamila's mother? What about Maya's height? What about Pollina?

  19. #59
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    Speaking of costumes... Did Keegan wear the same thing for the sp, fs and ex? Or were they three similar black outfits?

    I was pleased with the crowd here. Seemed like a decent turnout and I thought they were very supportive of all the skaters!

    Agree with those dismayed by ISU's tech issues... RD wrong scores, Bradie's combo snafu, tech box disappearing - hope they get it the for the next outing!

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    The girls WEIGH IN EVERY DAY. Obviously, weight is one thing they can control by adjusting eating habits. Remember, these are young girls in a highly competitive environment within their own training group. It's naive to think that the daily weigh-in doesn't have an impact on eating habits. Some girls can eat all they want and never gain weight, but others aren't so lucky, and even a small weight gain may seem like a crisis. And these girls are at an age when they are growing--weight gain is natural, though frowned upon.

    I am NOT saying all the girls have eating disorders. What I am saying is that daily weigh-ins can contribute to the development of eating disorders.

    While the degree of talent is no doubt the primary criteria in selecting a student for Eteri's group, it's not unreasonable to consider genetic factors as well.

    Body shaming? Eteri's own words about women's bodies clearly reflect how she thinks.

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