2019 Skate America: Day 2 - Thoughts and Highlights | Page 4 | Golden Skate

2019 Skate America: Day 2 - Thoughts and Highlights

ec00834

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 16, 2019
The girls WEIGH IN EVERY DAY. Obviously, weight is one thing they can control by adjusting eating habits. Remember, these are young girls in a highly competitive environment within their own training group. It's naive to think that the daily weigh-in doesn't have an impact on eating habits. Some girls can eat all they want and never gain weight, but others aren't so lucky, and even a small weight gain may seem like a crisis. And these girls are at an age when they are growing--weight gain is natural, though frowned upon.

I am NOT saying all the girls have eating disorders. What I am saying is that daily weigh-ins can contribute to the development of eating disorders.

While the degree of talent is no doubt the primary criteria in selecting a student for Eteri's group, it's not unreasonable to consider genetic factors as well.

Body shaming? Eteri's own words about women's bodies clearly reflect how she thinks.

Who are the "some girls who can eat all they want and never gain weight" and who are the "not so lucky ones" from Eteri's group? And how do you know which girls eat all they want and which girls don't? Who said a small weight gain will turn into a "crisis?" You are still making outrageous assumptions based on no evidence. Please provide a link where Eteri says she doesn't allow her students to gain weight. Eteri knows that puberty exists. All skaters will eventually go through puberty (even Liza with textbook technique had issues during puberty), Alina's jumps are looking even better after puberty. Is Eteri frowning?
And like I said before, even Yuzu weighs himself every single day, does that mean he is at a high risk for an eating disorder?
 

Interspectator

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 25, 2012
The second day was a personal disappointment because my favorite ladies didn't make the podium. :(
But Kaori's LP is the coolest thing and it suits her so well. I just want her to skate it as often as possible.
Jason's LP was moving but I'm leaning more towards his SP as a preference.
 

eaglehelang

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 15, 2017
What you are doing is body-shaming.

Yuzuru Hanyu also said he weighs himself daily. I guess he trains under Orser so he can't get an eating disorder?

1) In Yuzuru's case there are other professionals who take care if his meals. Ajinomoto prepares Yuzuru's meals before WC and Olympics. Ajinomoto posts the meals they prepare, with photos. Even names for the meals.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/yuzuso...nyus-kachi-meshi-victory-meal-is-revealed/amp

If I recall correctly, Ajinomoto has been doing this for Yuzuru since 2014. Shoma Uno is also in the list for 2018 Olympics.

In this year's interview with Jackie Wong(@rockerskating). Orser himself has said Yuzuru has a team that look after/takes care of Yuzuru's meals.

2) When Evgenia moved over to train with Orser, a nutritionist was assigned to her to guide Evgenia on healthy eating.

3) Gabby Daleman(since someone mentioned Daleman) already had an eating disorder before switching to TCC. At TCC, a sports psychologist was assigned to her.
I forgot whether Daleman had a nutritionist

4) Rafael has said in an interview that in US, a coach cannot say to the student he/she is fat. The article below is the most diplomatic version :
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ny.../olympics/figure-skating-adam-rippon.amp.html
I've read a translation of Russian interview where Rafael said in North America the student can sue if they develop an eating disorder due to what the coach said.

5) Frank Carroll arranged for Gracie Gold (since her name was also mentioned) to see sports psychologists for her depression & eating disorder.
Daisuke Murakami credited Frank Carroll for addressing his eating disorder. Murakami said he had an eating disorder when he was with his previous coach.
When Murakami switched to Frank Carroll, the coach sent Murakami to see a nutritionist.

So, from all the points above, what is different in the North America system is there is evidence the coaches send their students to get professional help. Be it nutritionist or sports psychologist.
Personally I think over there it's a must they do so in order to be seen as responsible coaches.
If we go by what Rafael said, there are even rules on what can & cannot be said to the students/skaters.
 

Bcash

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 18, 2017
Nathan- Kind of continuing with his mode of FS construction of a long jump run-through, with a very cool step sequence tacked on. The run-through section has a bit more variety of steps than before. The step sequence is getting cooler. But still a somewhat disjointed program. Still more interesting than Hanyu's rehashed programs I guess?

Jason - This is an example of sharing beautifully shot footage of the program on Instagram before the debut and having the actual performance pale somewhat by comparison, simply because the arena camera work doesn't nearly amplify the physical expression as does the hand-held camera close-up. I just felt the actual performance to be a bit bland and lacking in emotional impact. Could also be that competition mode naturally dampens his expression.
 

chuckm

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Who are the "some girls who can eat all they want and never gain weight" and who are the "not so lucky ones" from Eteri's group? And how do you know which girls eat all they want and which girls don't? Who said a small weight gain will turn into a "crisis?" You are still making outrageous assumptions based on no evidence. Please provide a link where Eteri says she doesn't allow her students to gain weight. Eteri knows that puberty exists. All skaters will eventually go through puberty (even Liza with textbook technique had issues during puberty), Alina's jumps are looking even better after puberty. Is Eteri frowning?
And like I said before, even Yuzu weighs himself every single day, does that mean he is at a high risk for an eating disorder?

Metabolism says who can eat all they want, or who must be careful. No one knows (except the skaters themselves) who fits into each category.

Why is there a daily weigh-in if Eteri isn't concerned about weight gain?
 

moonvine

All Hail Queen Gracie
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Nathan Chen did 4 quads. Anna Shcherbakova did two quad Lutzes. Everyone else wasted their time by showing up for the "competition."

I think I'm done with the ladies. I don't care if someone rotates a jump 3 or 4 times, to be honest. I want to see programs with artistry, not skating around from jump to jump. I think I may even start to see the idea behind having a technical and artistic program. as long as they're evenly weighted of course.
 

TontoK

Hot Tonto
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I beg to differ. He shares the honors with Alexei K. In fact, I thought Alexei's was worse.

I don't normally get worked up about costumes, but man on man, that shirt was something.

He should embrace his inner jock and skate in a hockey jersey, then fistfight anybody who has something to say about it.

I really like this kid, and I'm not at all certain why. I get this sense of athletic abandon that leaves me on the edge of my seat. Especially the footwork.
 

TontoK

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I think I'm done with the ladies. I don't care if someone rotates a jump 3 or 4 times, to be honest. I want to see programs with artistry, not skating around from jump to jump. I think I may even start to see the idea behind having a technical and artistic program. as long as they're evenly weighted of course.

That's fair. But if you took away those quads, who do you think would have won? For the sake of argument, substitute in triples for the quads.

I think she'd probably have won anyway.
 

Mishaminion

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
I think I'm done with the ladies. I don't care if someone rotates a jump 3 or 4 times, to be honest. I want to see programs with artistry, not skating around from jump to jump. I think I may even start to see the idea behind having a technical and artistic program. as long as they're evenly weighted of course.

I'm the opposite. I like the jumps, it makes it a true sport and not just a beauty pageant as Figure Skating's detractors like toclaim it is.
Not everyone gets what they want, we all have different opinions.
Maybe this tech/art split idea is actually the only way of settling this, because despite jumps being a part of figure skating the whole time suddenly people won't stop whining about them.

What about men, should they stop jumping too? Pairs?
 
E

eterialskater

Guest
Because she’s not training in a healthy environment. Two of Eteri’s biggest students have come out saying they didn’t eat enough so their bodies were weak. One even had to seek treatment for it. Eteri herself has made many disconcerting remarks over the years. Anna already has that concerning fragile look. Connect the dots.

Yes Zagitova looks absolutely anorexic and Anna has that kidnapped look on her face. Crime solved. You should a get an award who knew it was that easy nailing Eteri.
 
E

eterialskater

Guest
I think I'm done with the ladies. I don't care if someone rotates a jump 3 or 4 times, to be honest. I want to see programs with artistry, not skating around from jump to jump. I think I may even start to see the idea behind having a technical and artistic program. as long as they're evenly weighted of course.

Funny how someone only wants to stop watching ladies because they are now landing quads but has no problem with the men doing it 4 times or more in their programs. They are talking as if Anna is incapable of artistry. She was miles above her competition and her quads were just an addition to an already impressive arsenal of jumps. Quads or not she'd have won this tournament. Why continue with the disinformation when it falls flat on the face as soon as it's uttered?
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
I think I'm done with the ladies. I don't care if someone rotates a jump 3 or 4 times, to be honest. I want to see programs with artistry, not skating around from jump to jump. I think I may even start to see the idea behind having a technical and artistic program. as long as they're evenly weighted of course.

I get what you're saying, but there are some really good women who balance both technical and artistry for me, including Alena K and Rika K. Skaters who come out and do two quad lutzes, or four quads total, deserve to be rewarded for the incredible risk they take, and if that means they place ahead of skaters with more balanced programs I'm ok with that. If Alena or Rika skate a beautiful clean program, it doesn't affect my enjoyment of the performance whether they finish in first or third. I think you lose enjoyment of the performances if you tie the satisfaction to the expectation of certain placements.
 

WeakAnkles

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Joined
Aug 1, 2011
Funny how someone only wants to stop watching ladies because they are now landing quads but has no problem with the men doing it 4 times or more in their programs. They are talking as if Anna is incapable of artistry. She was miles above her competition and her quads were just an addition to an already impressive arsenal of jumps. Quads or not she'd have won this tournament. Why continue with the disinformation when it falls flat on the face as soon as it's uttered?

She had artistry?

:confused2:

I honestly don't remember any.
 

nussnacker

one and only
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Mar 16, 2019
Funny how someone only wants to stop watching ladies because they are now landing quads but has no problem with the men doing it 4 times or more in their programs. They are talking as if Anna is incapable of artistry. She was miles above her competition and her quads were just an addition to an already impressive arsenal of jumps. Quads or not she'd have won this tournament. Why continue with the disinformation when it falls flat on the face as soon as it's uttered?

one word. sexism.
 

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.
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one word. sexism.

More than one word, from a woman:

Preferences in skaters that has jack diddly squat to do with sexism;)

Also, it’s impossible to answer the OP because it’s one of those “some people” posts. So who does it refer to? *Which* people are preferring four quad programs in men, yet not in women? Which posters? And if they’re not posters here on Goldenskate, where is the link so that I can assess for myself.

And if there are no links or quotes, I am forced to conclude it doesn’t exist:scratch:
 

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.
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I don't think it's that. They just don't like these girls.

Can you tell me which specific posts or which quotes you have read where a poster says, I love four quad programs in men but I don’t like them in women? I would be very curious to see them.

Myself, for example, I don’t like jump heavy programs for men. And I’m not crazy about jump heavy programs for ladies. So I am perfectly consistent, as are most of the posters I have seen here. I would be interested in a specific reference to inconsistencies.

Thank you. :)
 

oly2018

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 13, 2018
This was my first in person competition and it was incredible. USFS should hold more events in Vegas. The arena was consistently full, even for pairs and dance, and the audience and dj were great. Now, the skating. My favorite disciplines are dance, pairs, and men, but I attended all events.

Men and Pairs were the best full events to me. For the men, there were some splats, but it wasn't as bad as it could be for early in the season. Nathan was incredible over both programs, but there were a couple of surprises for me. Krasnozhon is much better live than on tv. I didn't mind the purple grandma shirt, but I loved his short program music. It really suits him, but is more modern. Kazuki is an incredible performer and I can't wait to see him develop. I personally was not entranced by Jason's SL, but his short program is great. Rohene was in the arena supporting him. I also came away with a new appreciation for Boyang. He's a little rough around the edges, but he is such an earnest performer.

For pairs, the long was a bit scary at times, but it was really fun. D/F made me tear up a bit. Knowing her struggles with her injuries and how up and down their career has been, it was great to see them do so well. The lion king score really works and they use all the swells of the music. C/J were the real surprise for me. I enjoyed them at Nationals on tv last year, but in person, Jessica is such a beautiful performer. Their programs will take them far this year if they clean up the jumps and throw. I noticed they have a pretty great twist compared to C-G/L. Ashley and Tim :(. I love the Moonlight score and the beginning of their free is beautiful and haunting. When the botched lift went up, I saw Tim grimace and I knew something was wrong. They just had a nervous energy rolling off of them. Maybe it is the pressure? Peng and Jin were incredible in person. She landed some incredible throws in practice, but I was sitting right where she flew into the wall and I wasn't surprised when she fell. They were coming in real fast and their throws are so large, there just wasn't enough room. Their cloud atlas program is still beautiful and what really stood out to me, was Jin is not just a boring stem in a pair team. He has beautiful stretch and is just as engaged in the performance and Peng.

I love ice dance, but it was a bit of a letdown. In the RD, S/D got a standing ovation, but I think it is all because of Olivia. She gave 150% to that program and sold it to the rafters. Adrian should bring some of his exhibition personality to that program. The free is just plain weird in person. People around me were audibly confused. I think S/B could have a really interesting RD by the end of the season and I actually love the free. I was a little worried about it, but I think the music transitions really well and it is a little different from the rest. Also, everyone should take styling lessons from Steponava. I was really excited to see F-B/S in person. Their RD is super engaging and imo, the best overall RD as far as packaging, music cuts, and telling the full story. I found their free to be boring by the time they got to the Buble section. The Summertime was great, but it becomes pretty generic, we love each other by the end. H/D were the biggest meh for me. Why you would choose My Heart Belongs to Daddy in this day and age is beyond me. My mother who is not a regular watcher and doesn't normally pay attention to this kind of stuff, found the music really off putting and couldn't look past it. Zach also has no character, which didn't work for me. Their free is also odd. The music queues are not used well and again, there was no real story telling, just annoying voice-overs. I am so so over voice-overs, but Gadbois can't get enough of them. One last note, I was really excited to see C/P because they are my favorite young American dance team and while they have some of the most natural on ice chemistry and clearly are trying to execute really difficult programs, they need so much more speed. Igor needs to let them work with more consultants because they have all the goods, but they need to skate bigger and faster.

Ladies was a mixed bag. There were a lot of really sad skaters at the end of each segment and that was hard to watch. Amber Glenn really created a moment in her short and I hope she can become more consistent. I was so so proud of Wakaba in the short. The music is perfect for her and it was great to see her so happy with a skate, even if it didn't carry to the free. Kaori was interesting for me. She has great skating skills, jumps, and programs, but to me, the programs do not fit her. She is not performing them, but maybe that will come later. I was impressed with Bradie. She performed well under pressure and I thought both programs were a good fit. I would like to see her work with someone other than Benoit though. I was excited to see Liza live and while the triple axels were incredible, her skating is so so labored and it is obvious when she skates in between stronger skaters. She seemed really tired, but she has been competing a lot. Now, for Anna. The quad lutzes are incredible, but I was expecting more on the artistry side. It drives me wild when skaters use Firebird and then they ignore the very sharp musical accents. She definitely deserved to win, but there is room to grow. I think Alena is still my fav of the younger Russians.

Sorry for the long post! I had lots and lots of thoughts and I missed posting with all of you in the competition threads. :)
 

Mishaminion

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Can you tell me which specific posts or which quotes you have read where a poster says, I love four quad programs in men but I don’t like them in women? I would be very curious to see them.

Myself, for example, I don’t like jump heavy programs for men. And I’m not crazy about jump heavy programs for ladies. So I am perfectly consistent, as are most of the posters I have seen here. I would be interested in a specific reference to inconsistencies.

Thank you. :)

So why do you bother watching it at all?

Women were doing 7 triple programs (a small number landing 3A) in the 90s, men multiple quads and 3As during the same period.
All of a sudden now there's an explosion of quads and 3As in the ladies, there's complaining?
 

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.
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Mar 3, 2014
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Thank you for the live report @oly2018.:clap:

I agree my wild jumper Alex K. is more impressive in person than on the screen. And I may be the only person in the skating fandom who’s cool with the purple tunic. I actually saw him skate the programs live in black workout clothes, but I think the wild costumes underscore his passion even more. :)
 
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