2019 Skate America: Day 2 - Thoughts and Highlights | Page 5 | Golden Skate

2019 Skate America: Day 2 - Thoughts and Highlights

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Country
United-States
So why do you bother watching it at all?

Women were doing 7 triple programs (a small number landing 3A) in the 90s, men multiple quads and 3As during the same period.
All of a sudden now there's an explosion of quads and 3As in the ladies, there's complaining?

Well, why I watch is completely another thread, isn’t it? ;)

And we’ve discussed this before, I think: there is no more great complaining now than there was in the 80s. Other than the fact that we have the internet so we have an echo chamber of vast proportions. My opinion on that, I am afraid, remains the same.

I am interested in the assertion that there are posters who like “jump-centric” programs for men but not for ladies. I just have not seen that at all. But I certainly haven’t read every post or article in the world, so I’m willing to be supplied with references :)
 

blancanieves

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 3, 2012
Why you would choose My Heart Belongs to Daddy in this day and age is beyond me. My mother who is not a regular watcher and doesn't normally pay attention to this kind of stuff, found the music really off putting and couldn't look past it.

I've seen several comments like this. What is off putting about it? I don't understand.
 

kbear

Rinkside
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
The “Daddy” in the song is a rich old man who takes care of a younger woman. The song is a big yuck.
 

WeakAnkles

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
The “Daddy” in the song is a rich old man who takes care of a younger woman. The song is a big yuck.

Well isn't that the quintessential 21st century dilemma? The song is absolutely true to the attitudes of the time. I do try to do prelim notes for PBPs and I just did them for Skate Canada. And this is what I have for H/D's RD: I know a lot of you are icked out by the Marilyn "My Heart Belongs to Daddy," but that's the 50s for you. The 60s Sexual Revolution and Women's Lib didn't just come out of nowhere for no reason you know. ;)

I happen to really like the program, one of the very few RDs this season that I wholeheartedly like. Is the song sexist if not downright misogynistic? Yes. But if you think that's Ick City, what do you make of this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--RI7tlWuaM

Though I could only imagine Madison in full Bette Davis drag in my nightmares!

:rofl:
 

blancanieves

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 3, 2012
Well isn't that the quintessential 21st century dilemma? The song is absolutely true to the attitudes of the time. I do try to do prelim notes for PBPs and I just did them for Skate Canada. And this is what I have for H/D's RD: I know a lot of you are icked out by the Marilyn "My Heart Belongs to Daddy," but that's the 50s for you. The 60s Sexual Revolution and Women's Lib didn't just come out of nowhere for no reason you know. ;)

I happen to really like the program, one of the very few RDs this season that I wholeheartedly like. Is the song sexist if not downright misogynistic? Yes. But if you think that's Ick City, what do you make of this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--RI7tlWuaM

Though I could only imagine Madison in full Bette Davis drag in my nightmares!

:rofl:



What you said, but also the song is a farcical Broadway tune for an over-the-top, campy character, Dolly Winslow. In context, I don't see it as celebrating "sugar daddyism" anymore than Sweeney Todd advocates for cannibalism. :) Taking things out context distorts them.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
One word. sexism.

But I think there is a danger in the opposite direction as well. If we say that there should be no difference in what is valued in men's skating and what is valued in women's skating, then are we saying that women are nothing but inferior men? Alexandra Trusova, after all, can't do as many quads as Nathan Chen. Does this mean that women's skating is not worth watching because it is the men who do the most quads?
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
I just remember Anna in the SP picking her leg up, holding it, then putting it down. Over and over again.
 

Amei

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
I just remember Anna in the SP picking her leg up, holding it, then putting it down. Over and over again.

That's her choreographer's signature transitions out of jumps for her; I love her programs, I watch her skate and tell that she listens and moves to the music but my complaint of her SP after test skates was there was no variety in and out of jumps.
 

IndiaP12

iliabot wakabot gumennikbot team korea stan
Final Flight
Joined
Apr 29, 2018
Country
New-Zealand
Then I guess you weren't watching. Anna is a very musical skater with lovely interpretative skills

Yeah, I don’t understand people who think she doesn’t have artistry. She rides in the shadow of Kostornaya whom her natural artistry and performance factor is better than. Many people build opinions on the hype of others
 

WeakAnkles

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
That's her choreographer's signature transitions out of jumps for her; I love her programs, I watch her skate and tell that she listens and moves to the music but my complaint of her SP after test skates was there was no variety in and out of jumps.

Great. You love her programs, good for you. I'm just saying that all I remember about her programs are the leg lifts. And she did a lot of jumps. And then more leg lifts. And The Dress Trick. The Dress Trick was really cool. But the rest is not my cuppa, as they say. And if it's yours, well raise your cup and drink deeply.
 

IndiaP12

iliabot wakabot gumennikbot team korea stan
Final Flight
Joined
Apr 29, 2018
Country
New-Zealand
Anna is SO much more than her quads. People need to watch her properly and realise this. The reason she is my favourite out of the 3A in the first place is because of her artistry and performance factor and ability to feel the music, quads or not. She has facial expression and attention to movement even at the beginning of the program where her quads are. And I’m very picky about artistry. She wouldn’t be my favourite if she wasn’t interesting to watch, because I can only watch jump jump jump for so long if there’s a lack of artistry
 

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Country
United-States
Great. You love her programs, good for you. I'm just saying that all I remember about her programs are the leg lifts. And she did a lot of jumps. And then more leg lifts. It's not my cuppa, as they say.


What is that about de gustibus again?;)
 

lusterfan

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 23, 2018
Anna is SO much more than her quads. People need to watch her properly and realise this. The reason she is my favourite out of the 3A in the first place is because of her artistry and performance factor and ability to feel the music, quads or not. She has facial expression and attention to movement even at the beginning of the program where her quads are. And I’m very picky about artistry. She wouldn’t be my favourite if she wasn’t interesting to watch, because I can only watch jump jump jump for so long if there’s a lack of artistry

Agreed! I had the pleasure of watching Anna live (with front row seats exactly where she landed her quad lutz triple toe) and it just made me appreciate her skating so much more! She was so solid on the quad combo, and it sure was a treat to see it within a few feet of my own eyes. She was one of the few skaters to really perform during the free, lighting up brilliantly after the costume change. Despite being a smaller statured skater (harder for her to "fill" up the arena the way some bigger skaters do), she makes up for it with her expressive skating. Her expressions were alluring and calculated, yet delivered naturally and effortlessly. My friend and I were also quite surprised by how fast she skated, especially as she zoomed past us, and compared to a much slower Liza...
 

WeakAnkles

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
What is that about de gustibus again?;)

I was involved in an online poetry workshop for years and there would be arguments JUST LIKE THIS ONE, only about metrical poetry versus free verse. And I mean De gustibus is totally ON THE MONEY. How can you argue about personal taste? I never get it. Didn't get it on the poetry board ---die hard free versers didn't suddenly write sonnets for instance -- and I don't get it here. I just don't think you can browbeat someone into enjoying something that isn't their personal taste. If you love something, good for you. Love it with all your heart.

Oh and yes Mathman, I edited in about The Dress Trick then read your comment. Oops!
 

Elucidus

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 19, 2017
But I think there is a danger in the opposite direction as well. If we say that there should be no difference in what is valued in men's skating and what is valued in women's skating, then are we saying that women are nothing but inferior men? Alexandra Trusova, after all, can't do as many quads as Nathan Chen. Does this mean that women's skating is not worth watching because it is the men who do the most quads?

But she can :biggrin: Read the latest Kostornaia's interview - she said that Trusova already did 5 quads routine (I suppose she is trying 4F as well) ;) It's still not 6 quads Chen's program in Oly season - but even he can't do that program again with new repetitions rules - unless he is gonna learn 4Lo.
That, and in men's skating there is both female and male types of skating already being valued equally. Yeah, there are both feminine and masculine types of programs and presentation among men - and feminine qualities are kept in even more high regard, tbh. Question is - why the same right is denied for women? Why skating like Brown is praised highly in men while skating like Voronov or Boyang is frowned upon in women? Double standarts? Obviously.
 

Vandevska

U don't have to build the end of the world out it.
Medalist
Joined
Dec 18, 2017
That's her choreographer's signature transitions out of jumps for her; I love her programs, I watch her skate and tell that she listens and moves to the music but my complaint of her SP after test skates was there was no variety in and out of jumps.
Yeah it's a bit boring due to that. The FS is another story for me though.
 
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