Tuktamysheva's scores

Lipea · Oct 20, 2019

She got three consistent beautiful and clean triple axels. In her last performance she got all level four on her spins.
No falls, no two-feet landings, no doublings/singlings. Her BV is higher than everyone but two Eteri's girls.
Her scores this season dropped from 214 to 205. With basically the same, consistent and clean performances. She used to get more without any 3A in 2015.
On SA she was called UR twice - very questionable UR-s indeed. But even if she didn't, she'd still be below Tennell who had only 6 triples.
She would've been off the podium, if Sakamoto doubled less jumps.
By multinational vote here, she has the best lutz among the ladies, which, however, rarely gets more than a few +3 GOEs, often just +1.
Her jumps are the best fit for the current scoring regulations.
She was blamed for bad programs, so she got her best ever short program, and in the result gets the lowest scores that one, perhaps, could possibly earn with four triples in SP.
Btw., she is the only lady who consistently does 4 triples in the short program.

Can someone explain, why is Liza so humiliated by judges, and specially THIS SEASON?

anonymoose_au · Oct 20, 2019

Lipea said:
She got three consistent beautiful and clean triple axels. In her last performance she got all level four on her spins.
No falls, no two-feet landings, no doublings/singlings. Her BV is higher than everyone but two Eteri's girls.
Her scores this season dropped from 214 to 205. With basically the same, consistent and clean performances. She used to get more without any 3A in 2015.
On SA she was called UR twice - very questionable UR-s indeed. But even if she didn't, she'd still be below Tennell who had only 6 triples.
She would've been off the podium, if Sakamoto doubled less jumps.
By multinational vote here, she has the best lutz among the ladies, which, however, rarely gets more than a few +3 GOEs, often just +1.
Her jumps are the best fit for the current scoring regulations.
She was blamed for bad programs, so she got her best ever short program, and in the result got the lowest scores one, perhaps, could possibly earn with four triples in SP.
Btw., she is the only lady who consistently does 4 triples in the short program.

Can someone explain, why is Liza so humiliated by judges, and specially THIS SEASON?

I'd like to know this too, but according to many Liza's basics are so deficient that the jumps don't matter (unless she got a quad I suppose?)

She also doesn't have enough transitions and apparently just flails her arms.

If only she skated like an Eteri skater she wouldn't be in this mess.

Orlov · Oct 20, 2019

Lipea said:
She got three consistent beautiful and clean triple axels. In her last performance she got all level four on her spins.
No falls, no two-feet landings, no doublings/singlings. Her BV is higher than everyone but two Eteri's girls.
Her scores this season dropped from 214 to 205. With basically the same, consistent and clean performances. She used to get more without any 3A in 2015.
On SA she was called UR twice - very questionable UR-s indeed. But even if she didn't, she'd still be below Tennell who had only 6 triples.
She would've been off the podium, if Sakamoto doubled less jumps.
By multinational vote here, she has the best lutz among the ladies, which, however, rarely gets more than a few +3 GOEs, often just +1.
Her jumps are the best fit for the current scoring regulations.
She was blamed for bad programs, so she got her best ever short program, and in the result gets the lowest scores that one, perhaps, could possibly earn with four triples in SP.
Btw., she is the only lady who consistently does 4 triples in the short program.

Can someone explain, why is Liza so humiliated by judges, and specially THIS SEASON?

Who knows, maybe rolling up your eyes and sarcastically showing the judges a thumb in K&C is not the best idea in a sport with a high degree of subjectivity... :confused2:

Maybe after this technical panels might start think - "why do we close our eyes to UR? our gifts are not appreciated... no-no-no... no more"

This is only a hypothesis :giveup:

medoroa · Oct 20, 2019

I don't know, but it seems to me the tendency in the rules and the scoring (of the ladies) is moving towards "power" skaters and "power" jumpers, by which I mean those who cover a lot of ground with one stroke, have good speed, and have jumps that carry them far. So Sakamoto and Tennell and Kostornaia are in the judges' eyes better "basic" skaters and jumpers than Tuk or Miyahara, and this is reflected in the GOE and PCS.

Now I personally really enjoy the skating of Sakamoto and Tennell and Kostornaia, but I find it frustrating when skaters of various types don't all get a chance to shine based on the things they do well (rather than being knocked down because their style doesn't match the rules de jeur), so I find this situation frustrating.

But on the other hand I also found it frustrating back when transitions in and out of jumps seemed to be the "de jeur" thing that pushed your GOE and PCS, so I can't complain too much about the current trends where skaters like Sakamoto and Tennell actually do get better PCS than... certain others.

medoroa · Oct 20, 2019

Orlov said:
Maybe after this technical panels might start think - "why do we close our eyes to UR? our gifts are not appreciated... no-no-no... no more"

Right, youtube videos that try to analyze 3D reality through 2D images and 1D line drawings, the pinnacle of objectivity and science.

And don't feed fan wars or people's conspiracy theories at all!

Orlov · Oct 20, 2019

medoroa said:
Right, youtube videos that try to analyze 3D reality through 2D images and 1D line drawings, the pinnacle of objectivity and science.

Of course there’s no UR, all lines are drawn in the wrong direction and Liza has “the best jumps in the world”, yes of course. And she doesn’t land her trixel like Alysa Lu - on the toepick and spinning the blade about 90 degrees on the ice. Of course not - "she is the best in a biz"

But there is one small nuance - tech. panels also "analyze 3D reality through 2D images" (And if you think their videos are better... ), so... :shrug:

medoroa · Oct 20, 2019

Orlov said:
Of course there’s no UR, all lines are drawn in the wrong direction and Liza has “the best jumps in the world”, yes of course. And she doesn’t land her trixel like Alysa Lu - on the toepick and spinning the blade about 90 degrees on the ice. Of course not - "she is the best in a biz"

You have no idea where the tech panel's camera is.

And yet you try to claim that a 2D image that looks UR from your POV must also be UR for the tech panel, and if it's not, then a skater is being unfairly favored! Very constructive and productive and objective.

How do you know those lines drawn "on the ice" are actually on the ice when all you have is a blank white canvas of ice and a camera in continuous movement? How did you analyze at which angle the camera is filming the skater's blade against the ice? Are you an AI? Do you have access to an AI, or the exact angles so you can plot them into a mathematical equation or 3D mapping software? Do you have direct access to the streaming/TV camera's 3D position at any given moment? No, what you have is a line you drew free-hand on a blank surface of low resolution which you're looking at from an angle you didn't even bother to try to calculate. At least you could do us all the favor of keeping this contained to youtube, but no, you can't even do that.

Orlov · Oct 20, 2019

medoroa said:
You have no idea where the tech panel's camera is. And yet you try to claim that a 2D image that looks UR from your POV must also be UR for the tech panel, and if it's not, then a skater is being unfairly favored! Very constructive and productive and objective.

How do you know those lines drawn "on the ice" are actually on the ice when all you have is a blank white canvas of ice and a camera in continuous movement? How did you analyze at which angle the camera is filming the skater's blade against the ice? Are you an AI? Do you have access to an AI, or the exact angles so you can plot them into a mathematical equation or 3D mapping software? Do you have direct access to the streaming/TV camera's 3D position at any given moment? No, what you have is a line you drew free-hand on a blank surface that you're looking at from an angle you didn't even bother to try to calculate. At least you could do us all the favor of keeping this contained to youtube, but no, you can't even do that.

So Liza has the best jumps in the world, without UR - so many clever words that I have to admit it. And the fact that she twisted a blade on ice at such huge angle of turn... it does not matter

But my main message was about something else - about the thumbs, аnd that after thumbs technical panels may not appreciated your smart words.

Jaana · Oct 20, 2019

I think that she is getting the PCS her choreography (the one done by feet) deserves or perhaps even a bit more.... She has beautiful jumps and spins, but that is the technical score and she gets points accordingly what she is doing. The problem is that Eteri skaters manage to skate to a COP-choreography and hers is just lacking, IMO.

Tolstoj · Oct 20, 2019

I think even more than Liza here, Dmitri's score in the free especially was a comedy.

The whole Men's free skate event was: computer that strategically didn't show scores in real time when it was time to downplay someone, double jumps considered triples in order to invalidate elements, downgrade levels on spins and steps sequence,...

2 quads, all the combos done, yes a couple of pops, but no falls or anything: only 73 on TES and very low PCS too compared to the others (despite he has all the qualities the north americans had here) and lost the 2nd place to a skater who popped his axel in his quadless short program.

He was truly robbed of a silver here

doublequad · Oct 20, 2019

HER triple lutz WAS NOT UNDERROTATED. TOTAL BS

pohatta · Oct 20, 2019

At this year's Finlandia I watched the ladies SP from the top auditorium (balcony?) and it became more apparent how slow she is compared to Kostornaya and some other top ladies. I like her skating but there's a clear difference, a lack of energy. She doesn't fill the rink like she should.

Edwin · Oct 20, 2019

#TeamMishin have been given a clear signal two times now. A third wide and Tuktamysheva is out. Not all is lost, but wether those involved really commit themselves to grab the final chance at the next GP start, we'll see.
If routines aren't good enough to make Grand Prix finals, what about their chance in World Championships, the main goal?

yume · Oct 20, 2019

Fascinating to see almost 20 points between Kostornaya's and Tuktamysheva's "clean" free skates. Both have two 3As and Tuktamysheva's were both rotated unlike Kostornaya's.
Just months before Tuktamysheva was scoring 150+ with one 3A. Ok it was WTT, so 144 at GPF with a 3A which wasn't clean and 70 in SP with an URed 3A. Her programs are not worse than the previous one imo and the difference in pcs is not big. It's mainly GOEs which make the difference. Yes her programs are not full of transitions but she has more transitions than last season and less telegraphed jumps. But her GOEs are lower.
What a waste. She has the third BV among Russians, consistent and correct jumps (only one iffy flip sometimes).

Orlov · Oct 20, 2019

readernick said:
I really disagree. I like Alieva but that program looked slow and he looked tired. The PCS was fine. Popping an axel and having a triple invalidated because you repeated too many jumps will kill your PCS. Perhaps he should stop popping? You would have gotten silver if he had not popped the axel. The score was fine.

wait a second... are you russian speaking? :laugh:

readernick · Oct 20, 2019

anonymoose_au said:
I'd like to know this too, but according to many Liza's basics are so deficient that the jumps don't matter (unless she got a quad I suppose?)

She also doesn't have enough transitions and apparently just flails her arms.

If only she skated like an Eteri skater she wouldn't be in this mess.

Honestly, that is PCS. I don't think her PCS is underscored. She is noticeably slow on the ice.

However, the sudden deflation in GOE is confusing to me. She doesn't get great running edges out of jumps (she is slow, so of course not) but the jumps themselves are beautiful. Anna Sherbakova often doesn't get great running edge out of most of her jumps either and yet she gets high GOE despite her jumps being smaller. I am upset for Liza. ( not the low PCS, that is totally fair) but the GOE deflation is shocking.

- - - Updated - - -

Orlov said:
wait a second... are you russian speaking?

haha, just really bad at typing on my phone :laugh:

Tolstoj · Oct 20, 2019

readernick said:
I really disagree. I like Alieva but that program looked slow and he looked tired. The PCS was fine. Popping an axel and having a triple invalidated because you repeated too many jumps will kill your PCS. Perhaps he should stop popping? You would have gotten silver if he had not popped the axel. The score was fine.

The first 2ltz for whatever reason they considered it triple, and that's what made invalidated the clean 3ltz-3t.

You can clearly see in the slow mo that he opens after the second revolution.

https://youtu.be/PfoKc-vHwjA?t=58

It's funny cause they considered Bradie's 3T a double in order to not get her the downgrade, while here they considered a double triple to bring him below Jason.

Mind you that Jason also popped his axel in the short in a program that also had no quads.

Orlov · Oct 20, 2019

readernick said:
haha, just really bad at typing on my phone

Yea..??

For me you are write like russian who forgot that there are no cases in English

In Russian we have it - "я(I) люблю(like) Алиева(Aliev, no a), но(but)..." and automatic mistake of a Russian person to write in English - "I like Alieva, but...".
Come on, you are russian, right?

readernick · Oct 20, 2019

Orlov said:
Yea..??
For me you are write like russian who forgot that there are no cases in English In Russian we have it - "я люблю Алиева, но..." and automatic mistake of a Russian person to write in English - "I like Alieva, but...".
Come on, you are russian, right?

ff topic:
No, but thank you for teaching me something new ! Perhaps, I will be a natural if I start learning Russian since I already unintentionally use cases in my speech. ( at least when typing on my phone) Right now, I am trying to learn Mandarin and finding it incredibly hard ( I hate tones) perhaps I can switch to Russian and instead of hating tones I will love cases.

Orlov · Oct 20, 2019

readernick said:
ff topic:
No, but thank you for teaching me something new ! Perhaps, I will be a natural if I start learning Russian since I already unintentionally use cases in my speech. ( at least when typing on my phone) Right now, I am trying to learn Mandarin and finding it incredibly hard ( I hate tones) perhaps I can switch to Russian and instead of hating tones I will love cases. ��

Okey, but you made such a "Russian mistake" :laugh:

Tuktamysheva's scores

Lipea

anonymoose_au

Insert weird opinion here

Orlov

medoroa

medoroa

Orlov

medoroa

Orlov

Jaana

Tolstoj

doublequad

pohatta

Edwin

СделаноВХрустальном!

yume

🍉

Orlov

readernick

Tolstoj

Orlov

readernick

Orlov

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