Tuktamysheva's scores

Mishaminion · Oct 20, 2019

Underrotated 3Loop in FS, step sequence 2, her BV is not as maximised as it could be, not much higher than it was last season with just one 3A.
Also, she has had some issues with jumps other than 3A. She switched out her 3F-3T in the short to 3T-3T and stepped out of it. Some of the jumps are not as good as we know they can be from her.
I actually think her PCS is slightly generous, SS is still very weak and her programs still look so empty.

Mishaminion · Oct 20, 2019

Tolstoj said:
The first 2ltz for whatever reason they considered it triple, and that's what made invalidated the clean 3ltz-3t.

You can clearly see in the slow mo that he opens after the second revolution.

https://youtu.be/PfoKc-vHwjA?t=58

It's funny cause they considered Bradie's 3T a double in order to not get her the downgrade, while here they considered a double triple to bring him below Jason.

Mind you that Jason also popped his axel in the short in a program that also had no quads.

Bradie's 3T was clearly an under 3T and not an intentional 2T. The protocol should read 3Lz-3T<
It wasn't that underrotated to be downgraded, the 2T in the protocols is clearly a mistake

Lipea · Oct 20, 2019

Edwin said:
#TeamMishin have been given a clear signal two times now. A third wide and Tuktamysheva is out. Not all is lost, but wether those involved really commit themselves to grab the final chance at the next GP start, we'll see.
If routines aren't good enough to make Grand Prix finals, what about their chance in World Championships, the main goal?

Her SP is way better now than any in the previous seasons, where she’d get much higher scores. Frankly, the lack of choreo is only in comparison to Eteri girls, she doesn’t have much less choreo than, for ex, current Medbedeva, or Sakamoto. She is also very energetic and charismatic on ice. Transitions is only one part of PCs marks, so it’s even not about it in particular. It’s more like a conspiracy to push one of russian ladies down, to have diversity in the final.

readernick · Oct 20, 2019

Mishaminion said:
Bradie's 3T was clearly an under 3T and not an intentional 2T. The protocol should read 3Lz-3T<
It wasn't that underrotated to be downgraded, the 2T in the protocols is clearly a mistake

Yes, actually the worse thing about this competition is the issues that the ISU is having with their software. There was a mistake in the calculation of GOE in the short dance on a step sequence and then Bradie's 3T(ur) was counted as a double. (contrary to what the conspiracy theorists think... correcting this error will actually increase her score). These issues are unprofessional.

Lipea · Oct 20, 2019

Tolstoj said:
The first 2ltz for whatever reason they considered it triple, and that's what made invalidated the clean 3ltz-3t.

You can clearly see in the slow mo that he opens after the second revolution.

https://youtu.be/PfoKc-vHwjA?t=58

It's funny cause they considered Bradie's 3T a double in order to not get her the downgrade, while here they considered a double triple to bring him below Jason.

Mind you that Jason also popped his axel in the short in a program that also had no quads.

That 3t of Bradie was definitely one to downgrade; by counting it as a double they actually save some of her GOEs (if counted as a downgraded it would’ve gotten more negative GOEs)

skatergurl7 · Oct 20, 2019

Tolstoj said:
I think even more than Liza here, Dmitri's score in the free especially was a comedy.

The whole Men's free skate event was: computer that strategically didn't show scores in real time when it was time to downplay someone, double jumps considered triples in order to invalidate elements, downgrade levels on spins and steps sequence,...

2 quads, all the combos done, yes a couple of pops, but no falls or anything: only 73 on TES and very low PCS too compared to the others (despite he has all the qualities the north americans had here) and lost the 2nd place to a skater who popped his axel in his quadless short program.

He was truly robbed of a silver here

Agreed

Tolstoj · Oct 20, 2019

readernick said:
Yes, actually the worse thing about this competition is the issues that the ISU is having with their software. There was a mistake in the calculation of GOE in the short dance on a step sequence and then Bradie's 3T(ur) was counted as a double. (contrary to what the conspiracy theorists think... correcting this error will actually increase her score). These issues are unprofessional.

It depends on the panel really: often when they see a < or << judges feel entitled to throw the big negative GOE from -2 to -5: so it is the underrotation + the big negative GOE.

If they called it 2t because they wanted to give the downgrade that would have been worse score wise.

Personally i'd have called it 3ltz-3t< with -1 or -2 in the GOE.

Mishaminion · Oct 20, 2019

Lipea said:
That 3t of Bradie was definitely one to downgrade; by counting it as a double they actually save some of her GOEs (if counted as a downgraded it would’ve gotten more negative GOEs)

It was not a disguised downgrade, the 3T was not that underrotated, it is a mistake in the system.

Casual · Oct 20, 2019

Scores mean nothing. It's pretty crooked anyway.

Kaori was way better (much more enjoyable to look at).

Mishaminion · Oct 20, 2019

Casual said:
Scores mean nothing. It's pretty crooked anyway.

Kaori was way better (much more enjoyable to look at).

Kaori popped multiple jumps, regardless of how much better she was to watch

lariko · Oct 20, 2019

skatergurl7 said:
Agreed

Oh, so I’m not the only one who is puzzled by Brown’s scores. Cool, I thought I’m just not getting something important.

Because there is so much talk about Tuktamysheva’s scores, I was trying to watch closer, and what I’m getting is that she is noticeably slower, but she is engaging to watch for me personally, which is odd. As an ignoramus, I love big energy.

Overall, for me as a spectator, Brown’s Silver is still much more confusing than Tuktamysheva’s bronze.

readernick · Oct 20, 2019

Tolstoj said:
It depends on the panel really: often when they see a < or << judges feel entitled to throw the big negative GOE from -2 to -5: so it is the underrotation + the big negative GOE.

If they called it 2t because they wanted to give the downgrade that would have been worse score wise.

Personally i'd have called it 3ltz-3t< with -1 or -2 in the GOE.

It was called 3Lz+2t with 7 of 9 judges giving it a negative 2 or 3 GOE. The faulty call definitely hurt her score because she already got the negative GOE and she did not get the benefit of the higher base value that a 3Lz+3t (ur) in the second half provides. This faulty call did not help her score. It lowered it by a least a point or two. Please stop with the conspiracy theories.

readernick · Oct 20, 2019

Casual said:
Scores mean nothing. It's pretty crooked anyway.

Kaori was way better (much more enjoyable to look at).

I like Kaori's skating better than Bradie's too, especially in the free.(Bradie's SP is very interesting, but Kaori's Matrix free is amazing) But, Bradie landed all of her jumps (with one UR) and got level 4s on everything and Kaori lost focus and popped two jumps (and got an e on her lutz (we all know she flutzes)), and lost levels on spins which greatly lowered her BV. Kaori absolutely would have been on the podium with a clean skate and likely would have beaten Tennell because she would have received several points more in PCS had she been clean. But, she wasn't. She has only herself to blame.

Mishaminion · Oct 20, 2019

readernick said:
It was called 3Lz+2t with 7 of 9 judges giving it a negative 2 or 3 GOE. The faulty call definitely hurt her score because she already got the negative GOE and she did not get the benefit of the higher base value that a 3Lz+3t (ur) in the second half provides. This faulty call did not help her score. It lowered it by a least a point or two. Please stop with the conspiracy theories.

Thankyou! My thoughts exactly.

Unless the conspiracy was to lower her score then the theory just doesn't work

Casual · Oct 20, 2019

Mishaminion said:
Kaori popped multiple jumps, regardless of how much better she was to watch

True. Still, I'd re-watch her popped-jumps program with pleasure, again and again. Unlike Tut's, which was difficult to sit through the first time.

4everchan · Oct 20, 2019

if you don't want judges to notice your flailing arms, don't wear red gloves.

this is my advice to her...

for the SP : i liked what they have tried to do with her.... package her as a more complete skater but right now, it's too ambitious of a program. She is skating awkwardly through the steps.

Liza has good jumps but was always lacking in the presentation department.

I saw her at Skate Canada last year and I was not impressed...

However, I think that if she keeps working well throughout the season, she can improve tons in both programs.

DSQ · Oct 20, 2019

Edwin said:
#TeamMishin have been given a clear signal two times now. A third wide and Tuktamysheva is out. Not all is lost, but wether those involved really commit themselves to grab the final chance at the next GP start, we'll see.
If routines aren't good enough to make Grand Prix finals, what about their chance in World Championships, the main goal?

Well last season Medvedeva didn’t make the final and it worked out for her. I’d say all hope is not lost until Nationals.

Mishaminion · Oct 20, 2019

4everchan said:
if you don't want judges to notice your flailing arms, don't wear red gloves.

this is my advice to her...

for the SP : i liked what they have tried to do with her.... package her as a more complete skater but right now, it's too ambitious of a program. She is skating awkwardly through the steps.

Liza has good jumps but was always lacking in the presentation department.

I saw her at Skate Canada last year and I was not impressed...

However, I think that if she keeps working well throughout the season, she can improve tons in both programs.

Mishin needs to get with the times, he might not like it but programs with interesting difficult transitions, packed with complex choreography are the thing. Her jumps alone cannot save her and even some of those have been failing her. Going back to 3T-3T in the short is a huge mistake, and she couldn't even get high GOE on it because she stepped out.
She has no 3-3 in the free either, Kostornaia now has the two 3As but a much better layout and BV.

bigsisjiejie · Oct 20, 2019

I don't see any big anti-Liza conspiracy. Don't get me wrong, Tuktamysheva is always a sentimental favorite of mine, but she has a catalog of deficiencies that for whatever reason, she either is unable or unwilling to correct. And she's had a number of years to do this.
--Relatively lackluster spins and footwork.
--Relatively slow speed.
--Jump layouts that don't maximize points or her best abilities.
--Mostly uninteresting program choreography, and when she gets some (i.e. Shae-Lynn), it gets either discarded, watered-down, or not developed to its potential.
--Packaging. This is getting better, IMO. At least those muumuu dresses and overshirts are gone.

The ladies' skating game has changed in the 4 years since she won her World Title, and depending on only the 3A to lift her to the top seems to have been her main strategy to the exclusion of other things. But that's not enough any more, right now it only keeps her in the mix.

Points in her favor: she's lasted longer and still relevant after the other Russian ladies in her age/peer group have disappeared from the competitive scene. She's a pretty consistent jumper. She has solid basics though often doesn't display them to best advantage. She has lots of experience and rarely seems to get rattled in a competitive environment.

GOE: IMO what hurts her most, competition after competition, is the lack of comparable speed in/out of jumps, and not entering jumps from transitions and fancy footwork like so many of her competitors do. In other words, it's a direct result of her "empty" program choreography. I don't think she has to swing all the way to the often-cluttered Danill G program style, but the message has been given to her clearly by multiple panels.

What won't work to raise her scores: snarkiness, whether in the kiss&cry or elsewhere.

Casual · Oct 20, 2019

readernick said:
I like Kaori's skating better than Bradie's too, especially in the free.(Bradie's SP is very interesting, but Kaori's Matrix free is amazing) But, Bradie landed all of her jumps (with one UR) and got level 4s on everything and Kaori lost focus and popped two jumps (and got an e on her lutz (we all know she flutzes)), and lost levels on spins which greatly lowered her BV. Kaori absolutely would have been on the podium with a clean skate and likely would have beaten Tennell because she would have received several points more in PCS had she been clean. But, she wasn't. She has only herself to blame.

Yes, it's a pity.

The only bright spot for me was that at least Shcherbakova shows artistic potential (she's nothing artistically yet, obviously, but she has raw talent, and she has time to develop it), so all is not lost for where the sport goes next. That gives me hope that we won't have to suffer through years of points-maximizing empty automatons that learned to jump and flail their arms, and nothing else.

Tuktamysheva's scores

Mishaminion

Mishaminion

Lipea

readernick

Lipea

skatergurl7

Tolstoj

Mishaminion

Casual

Mishaminion

lariko

readernick

readernick

Mishaminion

Casual

4everchan

DSQ

Mishaminion

bigsisjiejie

Casual

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