Tuktamysheva's scores

Mishaminion · Oct 20, 2019

jenaj said:
And before Liza and Ashley, there was Irina Slutskaya, who thought she should have won 2001 Worlds and the 2002 Olympics. Her federation actually filed a formal protest over her second place finish at the Olympics. And before her, there was Surya Bonaly. Liza’s reaction is nothing compared to Surya’s!

Surya taking off her medal at 94 Worlds was quite shocking at the time! That did her no favours at all.

I also remember Kerrigan's downfall from America's sweetheart with her bitchy, sore loser and petulant comments about Oksana, her facial expressions in the medal ceremony were almost as bad.

colormyworld240 · Oct 20, 2019

Lipea said:
Now, since you voice the words of many, please tell how is Liza’s lack of choreo, spins and steps are worse than of a skater who was, undeservedly, sent ahead of her to the Worlds last year?
How is her posture and performance and overall quality of performances prior to worlds were not much better than of the World Champ?
People here compare her to Kostaemaia, but she is one of her kind. The other great jumper who pretends on highests positions this season, Trusova for example, is not great in those aspects either. Explain me, please.

You can compare her to another skater known for jumps, Trusova. Sasha like Liza is not very flexible, so she doesn't get the gorgeous spin positions of Alena and Alina. However, she does everything else that she can; her spins are perfectly centred, all her non flexibility-depending positions are fast, and she has all the requirements to consistently get level 4 on all of them. These differences on 3 spins makes a pretty big difference. Where as Liza is not only not flexible, but her spins are slow and she travels. Sasha doesn't have the skating skills of some of the top skaters. But again, she does the best she can. She is very fast, and has decent edges. She also does enough to consistently get level 4 on her step sequence. Does she skate like Kostornaia? No. But she's doing everything she can with her abilities. Compare that to Liza, who does not have great SS but is also slow and loses levels. And of course, Sasha has many transitions. Again she is not flexible so she can't do the typical beautiful extended leg lifts like Anna, but she has many other transitions like different turns and cantilevers. Then look at Liza, who doesn't have much in between elements. All these make a huge difference. And then the main difference is that while both skaters are TES skaters, Sasha has 4 quads which is a big difference from two 3As. And Sasha also maximizes her BV with her layout, but Liza doesn't.

samkrut@mail.ru · Oct 20, 2019

Whatever Liza's reaction are it won't change anything. A lot of people just do not want to have Russia only ladies GPF - that's my sincere belief. Rika's situation is unknown before SC, 3A have shown that no matter how you reduce their levels and whatever URs you find they are invincible when they deliver their jumps. Alina is a reigning OGM and WC champion. You cannot just reduce her pcs especially with brilliant programs that she has. Then there are just Liza and Zhenya left.

Liza's scores have been deteriorating not only vs. the last season but during this season as well. And there is no objective reason for that now that she can land 3 perfect triple axels. And if you compare with the past it is just a joke. Like her SA score of 138 vs. her Europeans 2015 score of 141. She surely did not skate better back then and just compare the jump content.

3A now vs. 2A then: 4.37 BV difference
3A+2T now vs. 3S+2A then: 2.70 BV difference
2A+3T+2T now vs. 3Lz+2T+2Lo then: 0.58 BV difference
3Lz+2A now vs. 3T+3T then: -1.66 BV difference

Other solo jumps are the same.

So, her jump BV is 6 points higher now but with a clean skate she receives overall 3 points less than back in 2015. Does it have anything to do with her or her K&C reactions? I don't believe so. Unfortunately, it is very little she can do now. Sad...

Mathman · Oct 20, 2019

Mishaminion said:
I also remember Kerrigan's downfall from America's sweetheart with her bitchy, sore loser and petulant comments about Oksana, her facial expressions in the medal ceremony were almost as bad.

Worse, she dissed MICKEY MOUSE at Disneyland the next day.

I think we are making too much of this. Many skaters have made a sour face at their scores and been jumped on by the Internet. Patrick Chan incurred fan's ire for speaking too bluntly at times. Certainly Ashley Wagner was raked over the coals at the time. Even nicey-nice Michelle Kwan once gave the judges a thumbs-down and heard about it from the fans.

All in a day's work. Repeat after me: "I just want to skate and have fun." :yes:

Mishaminion · Oct 20, 2019

Mathman said:
Worse, she dissed MICKEY MOUSE at Disneyland the next day.

Oh boy... now I remember that! Calling it corny and scowling like a spoilt child who someone had just said no to.
Her Disney contract was worth millions, I'd have gladly spent time around a bunch of costumed, overgrown mice for that!

I think we are making too much of this. Many skaters have made a sour face at their scores and been jumped on by the Internet. Patrick Chan incurred fan's ire for speaking too bluntly at times. Certainly Ashley Wagner was raked over the coals at the time. Even nicey-nice Michelle Kwan once gave the judges a thumbs-down and heard about it from the fans.

All in a day's work. Repeat after me: "I just want to skate and have fun." :yes:

Yes, you're right.

I really like Liza, I just want her to do well

Mathman · Oct 20, 2019

[email protected] said:
A lot of people just do not want to have Russia only ladies GPF - that's my sincere belief.

That may be true, but I don't think that there is anything "a lot of people" can do about it. Numbers are numbers.

Although ... it will be interesting to see if Bradie Tennell can beat Evgenia Medvedeva for second next week. Two silvers should be enough for Bradie to make the finals.

starla16 · Oct 20, 2019

Mathman said:
That may be true, but I don't think that there is anything "a lot of people" can do about it. Numbers are numbers.

Although ... it will be interesting to see if Bradie Tennell can beat Evgenia Medvedeva for second next week. Two silvers should be enough for Bradie to make the finals.

theres also Trusova, You and Kihira, but yeah any medal will be a feat

yume · Oct 20, 2019

[email protected] said:
Whatever Liza's reaction are it won't change anything. A lot of people just do not want to have Russia only ladies GPF - that's my sincere belief. Rika's situation is unknown before SC, 3A have shown that no matter how you reduce their levels and whatever URs you find they are invincible when they deliver their jumps. Alina is a reigning OGM and WC champion. You cannot just reduce her pcs especially with brilliant programs that she has. Then there are just Liza and Zhenya left.

Liza's scores have been deteriorating not only vs. the last season but during this season as well. And there is no objective reason for that now that she can land 3 perfect triple axels. And if you compare with the past it is just a joke. Like her SA score of 138 vs. her Europeans 2015 score of 141. She surely did not skate better back then and just compare the jump content.

3A now vs. 2A then: 4.37 BV difference
3A+2T now vs. 3S+2A then: 2.70 BV difference
2A+3T+2T now vs. 3Lz+2T+2Lo then: 0.58 BV difference
3Lz+2A now vs. 3T+3T then: -1.66 BV difference

Other solo jumps are the same.

So, her jump BV is 6 points higher now but with a clean skate she receives overall 3 points less than back in 2015. Does it have anything to do with her or her K&C reactions? I don't believe so. Unfortunately, it is very little she can do now. Sad...

I thought that politicking and conspiracies don't exist.
Appparently it only exists when Russians are not high enough in standings.

samkrut@mail.ru · Oct 20, 2019

Mathman said:
That may be true, but I don't think that there is anything "a lot of people" can do about it. Numbers are numbers.

Although ... it will be interesting to see if Bradie Tennell can beat Evgenia Medvedeva for second next week. Two silvers should be enough for Bradie to make the finals.

Oh, come on. I know that I myself play this game sometimes. But I know about it when I try to be impartial at least with myself. There are no fully objective numbers when there are human callers. Like I see nothing objective in multiple Liza's UR calls and 0 Bradie's UR calls now while it was the opposite just a season ago. Well, even at JO couple of weeks ago Bradie was UR called 3 times! And no calls now in 2 programs. A miracle, isn't it? No, numbers in figure skating are not just numbers...

Mishaminion · Oct 20, 2019

Bradie's protocols include a mistake that actually lost her more points than it should have if it had been entered in the system correctly. It is down as 3Lz-2T with negative GOE instead of the 3Lz-3T< with negative GOE. It isn't a downgrade it is a straight up error

So she did actually have a UR called, it is just not reflected in the system.
Apart from that her jumps were good, way better than at JO

samkrut@mail.ru · Oct 20, 2019

Mishaminion said:
Bradie's protocols include a mistake that actually lost her more points than it should have if it had been entered in the system correctly. It is down as 3Lz-2T with negative GOE instead of the 3Lz-3T< with negative GOE. It isn't a downgrade it is a straight up error

So she did actually have a UR called, it is just not reflected in the system.
Apart from that her jumps were good, way better than at JO

If you use 0.25 speed and look at her 3F landing at 6:48 in the video posted in the competition thread you can hopefully see that the jump was quite URed. But what I wrote is not about whether Bradie's jumps should have been called. It was about that they were called before and Liza's weren't. And now it's the opposite. There is a convenient "numbers" explanations that Bradie's jumps are better now and Liza's are vice versa. But not everyone is happy with this explanation. I am personally not.

Mishaminion · Oct 20, 2019

[email protected] said:
If you use 0.25 speed and look at her 3F landing at 6:48 in the video posted in the competition thread you can hopefully see that the jump was quite URed. But what I wrote is not about whether Bradie's jumps should have been called. It was about that they were called before and Liza's weren't. And now it's the opposite. There is a convenient "numbers" explanations that Bradie's jumps are better now and Liza's are vice versa. But not everyone is happy with this explanation. I am personally not.

Okay.
I'm not even going to argue with you.
Cook up as many conspiracies as you like, it's a free world.
Bradie skated better overall across both programs, but of course not everyone thinks that so... no point in going around in circles is there

lariko · Oct 20, 2019

starla16 said:
theres also Trusova, You and Kihira, but yeah any medal will be a feat

This.

NAOTMAA · Oct 20, 2019

[email protected] said:
If you use 0.25 speed and look at her 3F landing at 6:48 in the video posted in the competition thread you can hopefully see that the jump was quite URed. But what I wrote is not about whether Bradie's jumps should have been called. It was about that they were called before and Liza's weren't. And now it's the opposite. There is a convenient "numbers" explanations that Bradie's jumps are better now and Liza's are vice versa. But not everyone is happy with this explanation. I am personally not.

The judges always change their minds, many times for no real reason. That's just how they roll.

I still remember Rachel Flatt suddenly getting called for under rotations at the 2010 Olympics when she was never called for them before. After that they were suddenly calling her jumps left and right under. And now don't be shocked if Vincent Zhou, who always got called out on his rotation problems, suddenly is let off the hook by the judges just because he managed to slip onto a world podium. Suddenly his jumps will be fully rotated.

rlopen · Oct 20, 2019

starla16 said:
well Liza isnt the first one remember Ashley Wagner ? I didn't read much people complaining about nastiness of her expressions only attitude wise.

I love both and I think you’re wrong here. I wasn’t here when Ashley reacted to Sochi, but when she was complaining about her low scores at 2018 Nationals...EVERYONE on here was giving her flack for that.

I like both and appreciate the reactions coming from them. It’s nice to see people actually be people than merely be “Oh I got a 65 it’s not what I wanted but I’ll just smile.”

Scott512 · Oct 20, 2019

Mishaminion said:
Surya taking off her medal at 94 Worlds was quite shocking at the time! That did her no favours at all.

I also remember Kerrigan's downfall from America's sweetheart with her bitchy, sore loser and petulant comments about Oksana, her facial expressions in the medal ceremony were almost as bad.

Nancy got whacked by the Goon Squad then made a miraculous recovery and skated gold-medal caliber performance in Lillehammer. People in America remember that not her being petulant and the awards when Oksana was off doing who knows what. I guarantee you Nancy Kerrigan is remembered fondly and the United States of America and deservedly so especially after what she was put through. It was a million times tougher than anything she put Oksana through.

Mishaminion said:
I do not mean that the judges would be petty and deliberately lowball her for her attitude.
I meant that they will continue to send her the message that what she is doing isn't good enough and that she needs to improve in many areas. If she chooses to ignore that message and just sneer then she's only harming her own chances.

you may be right but they need to give her higher scores than they are doing.

[email protected] said:
Whatever Liza's reaction are it won't change anything. A lot of people just do not want to have Russia only ladies GPF - that's my sincere belief. Rika's situation is unknown before SC, 3A have shown that no matter how you reduce their levels and whatever URs you find they are invincible when they deliver their jumps. Alina is a reigning OGM and WC champion. You cannot just reduce her pcs especially with brilliant programs that she has. Then there are just Liza and Zhenya left.

Liza's scores have been deteriorating not only vs. the last season but during this season as well. And there is no objective reason for that now that she can land 3 perfect triple axels. And if you compare with the past it is just a joke. Like her SA score of 138 vs. her Europeans 2015 score of 141. She surely did not skate better back then and just compare the jump content.

3A now vs. 2A then: 4.37 BV difference
3A+2T now vs. 3S+2A then: 2.70 BV difference
2A+3T+2T now vs. 3Lz+2T+2Lo then: 0.58 BV difference
3Lz+2A now vs. 3T+3T then: -1.66 BV difference

Other solo jumps are the same.

So, her jump BV is 6 points higher now but with a clean skate she receives overall 3 points less than back in 2015. Does it have anything to do with her or her K&C reactions? I don't believe so. Unfortunately, it is very little she can do now. Sad...

I agree with you. But i don't think of Russia only ladies Grand Prix final will happen I think four is doable five possible.

silverfoxes · Oct 20, 2019

Well, speaking about SA in particular, there was a LOT of questionable judging that certainly did not favor the Russian skaters. Liza is not the only one who got hosed. In general, though, seeing these boring watered down Mishin programs year after year and comparing them to the much more complex programs of Eteri's girls and some of the Japanese girls, it's very easy to see why the judges are over it. She's not the only 3A in town now and the others have much more to offer.

Dima was dealt a crappy hand at SA, too, and he did not throw attitude or sulk. He accepted it calmly. Everyone is human and we can't always control our emotions, but I don't personally feel inclined to feel sorry for someone who seems to be developing an entitlement complex. Pay attention to the message you're being sent, and go work on your weaknesses. That's the only thing that is going to make a difference.

All Mishin's skaters look very old-fashioned now. He's too set in his ways to change his approach, or he would have done it already when Eteri's school started to rise. So Liza will just need to decide what she really wants and make some difficult decisions.

mrrice · Oct 20, 2019

Mathman said:
That may be true, but I don't think that there is anything "a lot of people" can do about it. Numbers are numbers.

Although ... it will be interesting to see if Bradie Tennell can beat Evgenia Medvedeva for second next week. Two silvers should be enough for Bradie to make the finals.

I want the best skaters in the GPF and I don't care where they come from as long as they skate their way into it.

Edwin · Oct 20, 2019

silverfoxes said:
Well, speaking about SA in particular, there was a LOT of questionable judging that certainly did not favor the Russian skaters. Liza is not the only one who got hosed. In general, though, seeing these boring watered down Mishin programs year after year and comparing them to the much more complex programs of Eteri's girls and some of the Japanese girls, it's very easy to see why the judges are over it. She's not the only 3A in town now and the others have much more to offer.

Dima was dealt a crappy hand at SA, too, and he did not throw attitude or sulk. He accepted it calmly. Everyone is human and we can't always control our emotions, but I don't personally feel inclined to feel sorry for someone who seems to be developing an entitlement complex. Pay attention to the message you're being sent, and go work on your weaknesses. That's the only thing that is going to make a difference.

All Mishin's skaters look very old-fashioned now. He's too set in his ways to change his approach, or he would have done it already when Eteri's school started to rise. So Liza will just need to decide what she really wants and make some difficult decisions.

Mishin probably has sort of given up keeping ahead of current trends, or even trying to closely follow the leaders, playing the difficult game of catching up, like the other Moscow rinks do. Very sorry for the whole of Sankt Peterburg skaters.

Mishaminion · Oct 20, 2019

Scott512 said:
Nancy got whacked by the Goon Squad then made a miraculous recovery and skated gold-medal caliber performance in Lillehammer. People in America remember that not her being petulant and the awards when Oksana was off doing who knows what. I guarantee you Nancy Kerrigan is remembered fondly and the United States of America and deservedly so especially after what she was put through. It was a million times tougher than anything she put Oksana through.

you may be right but they need to give her higher scores than they are doing.

I agree with you. But i don't think of Russia only ladies Grand Prix final will happen I think four is doable five possible.

Respectfully disagree about Kerrigan, I lived in the United States in 1994 and for two years after and there was huge backlash against her. Her comments(something like Oksana was holding up the ceremony redoing her make up even though she'll "only end up crying again") on Oksana were uncalled for and straight up bitchy. Oksana was not off "doing god knows what" they were trying to find the Ukranian anthem...hence the delay.
That she deserved gold is also your own opinion. There's no question Nancy was a victim of a horrible attack and fought back admirably but her behaviour following her Olympic FS and at Disneyworld was not that of a fully grown woman or a true champion.

I hope there isn't an all Russian GPF, it isn't that they don't deserve it but that we all want there to be more skaters stepping up to challenge them. Makes it more interesting and gives other country's fans something to cheer for

Tuktamysheva's scores

Mishaminion

colormyworld240

[email protected]

Medalist

Mathman

Mishaminion

Mathman

starla16

yume

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[email protected]

Medalist

Mishaminion

[email protected]

Medalist

Mishaminion

lariko

NAOTMAA

rlopen

Scott512

silverfoxes

mrrice

Edwin

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