App that lets fans judge along! | Golden Skate

App that lets fans judge along!

jccool5000

Rinkside
Joined
May 29, 2015
Hi everyone!

I judge along while watching skating at home and I want to make an app that allows fans watching to judge in real time then pool their results together to calculate a "fan score" to see how we judged verses how the judges judged. The idea is people can pretend to be the Technical Panel and/or Judge. For the pretend Technical Panel, the app will take the most common element people think it is and use that as the "judging element". For the pretend Judges, the app will take an average of everyone's GOEs (possible removing outliers/trolls).

I'm wondering several things:

  1. Is there interest in this app?
  2. If there's interest, should we do this statically or dynamically?
    • Static: Have everyone start/end at once. Use a time keeper or use the majority of the technical panel to decide when the program is over. Once the program is over, force the Technical Panel/Judges to submit what they have and move on to the next skater, similar to how the actual competition is like. The results, after moving on to the next skater is fixed.
    • Dynamic: People can add their element/GOE whenever they wish. Whenever they do, the scores are recalculated according to majority element and average GOE. The results would change constantly.
  3. Anything features/wishes/concerns people have in general?


Thanks!
 

Baron Vladimir

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
We can try both static and dinamic way. However, you should take in consideration people's bias, so for example 1/3 of the lowest and 1/3 of the highest GOE and PCS scores shoud not be counted in the skaters final scores, if you want to get more 'objective' scores. Regarding the tech judging, most of the people cant judge level of spins and steps correctly, so that could be a tricky thing to ask.
 

satine

v Yuki Ishikawa v
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
I think the Dynamic approach would work better, but I would for sure use the app regardless of what the time frame was. Awesome idea!

:points:
 

DenissVFan

Medalist
Joined
Oct 20, 2017
Good idea!
It'd be nice to be able to score only some elements, e.g. jumps. I think that another interesting feature would be to get feedback as to the GOE: perhaps users could tick bullet points and deductions to later analyse their reasoning (this is something that sometimes confuses fans, e.g. why a judge awarded a jump with a step-out a positive GOE etc.).
 

jccool5000

Rinkside
Joined
May 29, 2015
Good idea!
It'd be nice to be able to score only some elements, e.g. jumps. I think that another interesting feature would be to get feedback as to the GOE: perhaps users could tick bullet points and deductions to later analyse their reasoning (this is something that sometimes confuses fans, e.g. why a judge awarded a jump with a step-out a positive GOE etc.).

For sure. I’ve thought of this but it would be planned for version 2!
 

jccool5000

Rinkside
Joined
May 29, 2015
We can try both static and dinamic way. However, you should take in consideration people's bias, so for example 1/3 of the lowest and 1/3 of the highest GOE and PCS scores shoud not be counted in the skaters final scores, if you want to get more 'objective' scores. Regarding the tech judging, most of the people cant judge level of spins and steps correctly, so that could be a tricky thing to ask.

Yeah maybe. the tricky part of doing it statically is you need a trusted person to run it, switching between skaters and giving the final call for people to submit their stuff. Should I limit the technical panel to only certain people then? I can let everyone judge but only count those I “certify” for their element and level to be considered.
 

jccool5000

Rinkside
Joined
May 29, 2015
I also just thought of maybe a way to do it to control trolling. Maybe anyone can judge but you have to be certified in order to the mark to count. To get certified the only way to do that is if a certain % of your element calls or GOEs are within a threshold of the verified people who already know what they’re doing like how it works now. That way we can let everyone judge but only certain people’s marks count.
 

Baron Vladimir

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Yeah maybe. the tricky part of doing it statically is you need a trusted person to run it, switching between skaters and giving the final call for people to submit their stuff. Should I limit the technical panel to only certain people then? I can let everyone judge but only count those I “certify” for their element and level to be considered.

Some of us can judge jumps in real time more/less correct. You can take the most common call as 'accurate' for example. For spins and steps, maybe you can take semples from the real judges sheet, if you can't find enough people who can judge it. In real judging, the lowest and the highest mark of the panel of judges are not considered in the final skater scores, so you can do something similar with scores of the people pretending to be panel of judges (as i already suggested).
 

jccool5000

Rinkside
Joined
May 29, 2015
Some of us can judge jumps in real time more/less correct. You can take the most common call as 'accurate' for example. For spins and steps, maybe you can take semples from the real judges sheet, if you can't find enough people who can judge it. In real judging, the lowest and the highest mark of the panel of judges are not considered in the final skater scores, so you can do something similar with scores of the people pretending to be panel of judges (as i already suggested).

That’s basically my plan right now. Take all of the technical panel’s element calls then find the mode of the element that gets called. That’s the one I’ll use for the judges to apply their GOE to. Same thing for GOE, my plan is to take the average while eliminating outliers. The problem is people trolling and how to limit that.
 

Baron Vladimir

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
That’s basically my plan right now. Take all of the technical panel’s element calls then find the mode of the element that gets called. That’s the one I’ll use for the judges to apply their GOE to. Same thing for GOE, my plan is to take the average while eliminating outliers. The problem is people trolling and how to limit that.

I think it is a good idea to eliminate 1/3 of the highest and 1/3 of the lowest marks for GOE and PCS and take an average of only 1/3 marks of the total sample (or even less) for the skaters result. That way people who are judging will try to be more 'objective' maybe, knowing that their marks wouldn't count otherwise. Or maybe to compare somehow every person score with actual scores, and those who are too far away from it, erase from the system. Someone will maybe come with a better idea for that, just wait for it :biggrin:
 

Pantsu

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 12, 2019
So, a skater performs a beautiful clean program and gets an average score of +2 GOE. What is the point. I'm not even talking about tech panels. An average of URs and edge calls or what.
It can be cool for entertainment purposes, but to pretend there is some sort of objectivity is pointless
 

Nathan13

Medalist
Joined
Dec 1, 2015
I have been waiting for one of these for YEARS. I score along almost every competition, and it takes me FOREVER to do the math by hand to get total scores. You've probably seen this, but skatingscores.com has a "rescore" feature, that allows you to take the tech calls from the event and add your own GOE and PCS. It's really easy and fast. I would love to see something in an app where 9 people could get together to form their own judging panel and come up with their own scores, throwing out high and low like in real life. I think it would be fun to have a random option (you don't pick who your other 8 judging mates are), but it might also be fun to have an option where you pick your own team as well.

:thank: for giving attention to fantasy judging -- it gives you a whole new perspective on skating and an appreciation for judging!
 

jccool5000

Rinkside
Joined
May 29, 2015
I have been waiting for one of these for YEARS. I score along almost every competition, and it takes me FOREVER to do the math by hand to get total scores. You've probably seen this, but skatingscores.com has a "rescore" feature, that allows you to take the tech calls from the event and add your own GOE and PCS. It's really easy and fast. I would love to see something in an app where 9 people could get together to form their own judging panel and come up with their own scores, throwing out high and low like in real life. I think it would be fun to have a random option (you don't pick who your other 8 judging mates are), but it might also be fun to have an option where you pick your own team as well.

:thank: for giving attention to fantasy judging -- it gives you a whole new perspective on skating and an appreciation for judging!

Judging alone, you can use my calculator here https://jerry70450.github.io/FSCalc/
 

jccool5000

Rinkside
Joined
May 29, 2015
Just a suggestion, could you implement ways to edit any scores you already put in, as opposed to having to remove the element and start again? And could you implement a way to move elements up or down the order? That would make it perfect! Great work though :D

It might be something I work on down the line. This app will probably be my priority and take up the most of my time for the next little bit. I might just shut FSCalc down although and build it into the new app.
 

npavel

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 3, 2008
Yes, dynamic please. Last night I watched and fell a sleep, so I missed scaters. Other times I’m at work. So dynamic would be great
 
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