Interesting interview with Kiira Korpi about coaching and training

el henry · Oct 29, 2019

mrrice said:
I never skated in Russia but, I did dance there. It may not have been for everyone but, I loved it. Doing anything at an elite level is difficult and some dancers didn't make it. I don't blame the coaches as they have a job to do. This is a touchy subject.

Have you read the article Mr Rice? It talks about coaching in general, in all countries, and not just in Russia.
Since you kindly told us you were a dance coach, I would like to hear your insights on what Kiira says about coaching :yes:

newyn · Oct 29, 2019

As a Finnish figure skating fan it surprised me that people would think Kiira is attacking Russian skaters specifically, since she has been talking about these sorts of things for quite a while. She wrote a book some time ago that caused a stir, for a number of reasons. What went a bit unnoticed by the general public was how her critical comments about training methods, body image etc irked some people high up in the Finnish figure skating federation. The response was basically that she should not speak up, she should consult them privately or the sport will lose followers. She has also stood by some skaters coming forward with allegations of abusive coaches (in Finland). This was just this autumn. And even before this, when being asked to comment on the document 'Over the limit' about Russian rhythmic gymnastic champion Margarita Mamun, she said that even though she has not had such coaching as Mamun is depicted having in the document, she has had coaches who yelled at her etc. and it did not work well for her. She has not gone unchallenged by her peers, though: some skaters have spoken out about specifically seeking out more demanding coaching.

What I'm trying to say here is that whether you agree with Kiira or not, she has spoken about matters of the athletes (specifically young athletes) well being for years now. It is quite clear for a Finnish speaking follower of the sport that for her this is not only about Scherbakova, Eteri or Russia.

moriel · Oct 29, 2019

I personally feel that there is some agenda, and this is why i opt to discard the opinion, regardless of how fair or valid it may sound.

For me, it goes in the same line as Tracy Wilson, an active coach, who has a student in a competition, commenting on this very same competition.

We russians see agendas everywhere because there are many agendas everywhere. Maybe if there were less agendas, or if those agendas were condemned by everybody not just by us, we would become less paranoid.

Agenda, agenda, agenda.

neud · Oct 29, 2019

newyn said:
What I'm trying to say here is that whether you agree with Kiira or not, she has spoken about matters of the athletes (specifically young athletes) well being for years now. It is quite clear for a Finnish speaking follower of the sport that for her this is not only about Scherbakova, Eteri or Russia.

My opinion is she'd better proceed with her Finnish problems and won't touch Russian FS stars in her smearing twitter messages.

flanker · Oct 29, 2019

Well, she defends herself by saying "people don’t want to ask questions." But she didn't ask questions, she proceeded to the conclusion immediately.

nussnacker · Oct 29, 2019

macy said:
sorry, but i guess i don't understand why she doesn't have the right to raise concern. why does it matter if she wasn't the best jumper or didn't attempt any 3As or quads? many armchair critics here have done the same without ever stepping a foot on the ice. Kiira has more insight and knowledge than most of us. anyone has that right, regardless of whether or not they know the skaters or coaches. i especially don't know why so many people take it as personal attacks or insults against them either, or a reason to condemn her.

she was very fair with her praise and questioning. she acknowledged what these girls are doing is extremely hard and respectable, but she also acknowledged it comes with a lot of risk. that is a fact, not an attack on anyone. she has raised the question many have asked on this board- what will come of these girls bodies in a few years, or longer than that? will it end their careers one day? all of which are very possible, especially when such hard jumps are learned as bones and bodies are still growing.

i believe she is only now raising concern because it has just been established as a trend in senior ladies only this season. yes, Rika did 3As last year, but no one besides Tursynbaeva attempted a quad successfully in senior competition (which she only did once at worlds). now we have many girls going for them...there's at least a couple in every GP. now that she sees these jumps are the new standard to win, it became concerning to her. the whole sport is headed in that direction, it isn't just a couple outliers. that's absolutely fair.

I'm sure that you, including everyone who liked your post, actually read the interview.
BUT I don't know where exactly Kiira discussed anything related those 'risks' regarding the effects of quads on growing bodies/bones. :think:
She first named a broad term 'health', but then continued to clarify that by mentioning Anna and 'the human cost', she meant specifically mental health.

Although I spoke not only about Anna (Shcherbakova), but about the situation as a whole – what is the price of the loss in health of young skaters around the world.
...
I’m not trying to belittle the achievements of the beautiful young skaters, the beauty of their performances, their hard work. But being a former athlete and having trained in a lot of places, I know how brutal the sports regime is. And these thoughts about the human cost don’t allow me to enjoy their performances fully.

She gave examples from her own experience, that coaches in Finland were abusive and students had to obey them without saying a word, with Finnish federation supporting the abuse culture.
I do agree with her, it is a valid concern that should be raised, and she was right to do it.
However, I disliked the implication that Anna's apparently paying this 'human cost' = being mentally abused.

When you talk about the human cost, you mean not a lost childhood, but rather human dignity. Do you assume that it’s being infringed in the case of Anna Shcherbakova, Alexandra Trusova, Russian skater-geeks?

– I wouldn’t concentrate here on one coach, one country. The problem exists not only in Russia, it’s global. I was very frank about this topic in Finland, talking about coaches abuses and outdated working methods. Shouting, humiliation, using fear as a motivation and things like that. It turns out that the athlete is just a product of the system.

I agree that this kind of abuse is present in every country, but I don't think it's right to generalize every single student out there as the one being mentally abused.
Unless, she has some factual evidence of Anna being mentally abused, I would refrain of linking those together in any way shape or form.

I think it would be appropriate to probably raise this question after Nobunari Oda's interview, since he talked about the atmosphere in his rink, which was truly disturbing.
For one I know Elizabet was very eager to comeback to Sambo-70, she said whilst in Canada/TCC she even had dreams about Eteri, attended summer camps there every year and considering that, it doesn't sound like it was an abusive relationship between Eteri and Elizabet, at least to me. So, I'm not sure where Kiira is coming from... :confused2:

I just think children right activists should be careful when mentioning any names of children, especially when they have a broader problem in mind, and not an issue with that specific child.

newyn · Oct 29, 2019

moriel said:
I personally feel that there is some agenda, and this is why i opt to discard the opinion, regardless of how fair or valid it may sound.

For me, it goes in the same line as Tracy Wilson, an active coach, who has a student in a competition, commenting on this very same competition.

We russians see agendas everywhere because there are many agendas everywhere. Maybe if there were less agendas, or if those agendas were condemned by everybody not just by us, we would become less paranoid.

Agenda, agenda, agenda.

Yes, this is the feeling I get from her comments as well: she has an agenda. She wishes to change the coaching methods in figure skating. She has been quite open about it actually. She has spoken and written about the mental struggles she has had because of her involvement in this sport and I guess she wishes kids would not have to go trough all that.

I personally don't know whether she is right or wrong but she seems to be rather passionate about this, and like I said, her agenda is not only about Russians or Russian methods.

flanker · Oct 29, 2019

newyn said:
Yes, this is the feeling I get from her comments as well: she has an agenda. She wishes to change the coaching methods in figure skating. She has been quite open about it actually. She has spoken and written about the mental struggles she has had because of her involvement in this sport and I guess she wishes kids would not have to go trough all that.

I personally don't know whether she is right or wrong but she seems to be rather passionate about this, and like I said, her agenda is not only about Russians or Russian methods.

Yes, so change things globally, whether I have personal experience with local matters or not. :biggrin:

To me, when she has taken Anna into her mouth, first of all she was obliged to speak with her and only in case she would have found something that would have given her right to react this way, she would be justified to write it as a reaction to a particular performance.

mrrice · Oct 29, 2019

el henry said:
Have you read the article Mr Rice? It talks about coaching in general, in all countries, and not just in Russia.
Since you kindly told us you were a dance coach, I would like to hear your insights on what Kiira says about coaching :yes:

This is such a touchy subject because people respond differently to different situations. I was a very serious dancer and I liked the discipline I experienced in Russia. However, I hated high school in the US so it's a very individual thing. For me, it was more about the environment than the actual coaching. I had a great relationship with my fellow dancers and that played a huge part in my experience. In dance, we performed as a group and that makes a big difference in your experience. I absolutely loved it.

newyn · Oct 29, 2019

flanker said:
Yes, so change tjhings globally, whether I have personal experience with local matters or not.

To me, when she has taken Anna into her mouth, first of all she was obliged to speak with her and only in case she would have found something that would have given her right to react this way, she would be justified to write it as a reaction to a particular performance.

In this matter I think you are right, unless she knows for certain that Anna herself is suffering, she should not have taken her as an example. And some skaters indeed have opposed her views and explained that they thrive in a more demanding, competitive environment.

I don't believe she has been training everywhere exactly. However, she has trained in Obersdorf, Milan and in California with Rafael. Also most Finnish skaters go to training camps or do longer training periods in Russia or with Russian coaches. She knows and is friends with skating people from all over the world. So she must have some insight about training methods globally. Would her proposed methods be better? No idea. No matter she has the right to start a conversation, and people are now discussing this matter.

Decoder · Oct 29, 2019

neud said:
Right after SA Dave Lease from TSL openly said that he thinks that Anna's parents really don't care about her and all they want is her prize money to buy themselves "apartment and a car" (!)
Then was Kiira Korpi with her insinuations about Anna.
All this is beyond disgusting.

Right after reading your first sentence, I had the word "disgusting" come to my mind, but actually you are right, it's beyond disgusting.

Now on Kiira Korpi 's interview. Lots of people have voiced similar concerns, but the hard part is how to address the issues. Has Kiira suggested anything specific that would help address her concerns? I quote one: "We must help children take responsibility. The child must have a say." Ah, great, what a politically correct statement? How? Well, she does not know, and she probably does not have time in seeking some answers.

Here is another quote: "I look at Medvedeva’s career as an incredible success. Now it is even more successful than in Russia." Medvedeva was very successful when she was with Eteri. Now, does anyone, including Medvedeva herself, believe that she is even more successful?

The final quote: "Yes, I understand that I’m becoming an activist.(laughs) ". To me, the interview is just a show.

macy · Oct 29, 2019

Decoder said:
Right after reading your first sentence, I had the word "disgusting" come to my mind, but actually you are right, it's beyond disgusting.

Now on Kiira Korpi 's interview. Lots of people have voiced similar concerns, but the hard part is how to address the issues. Has Kiira suggested anything specific that would help address her concerns? I quote one: "We must help children take responsibility. The child must have a say." Ah, great, what a politically correct statement? How? Well, she does not know, and she probably does not have time in seeking some answers.

Here is another quote: "I look at Medvedeva’s career as an incredible success. Now it is even more successful than in Russia." Medvedeva was very successful when she was with Eteri. Now, does anyone, including Medvedeva herself, believe that she is even more successful?

The final quote: "Yes, I understand that I’m becoming an activist.(laughs) ". To me, the interview is just a show.

i think she means a different kind of success for Zhenya than medals here. she has more freedom and can make her own decisions about her own skating career, similar to what Kiira said in the article. i am sure that is a win and a success for Evgenia as well.

Lunalovesskating · Oct 29, 2019

Decoder said:
Right after reading your first sentence, I had the word "disgusting" come to my mind, but actually you are right, it's beyond disgusting.

Now on Kiira Korpi 's interview. Lots of people have voiced similar concerns, but the hard part is how to address the issues. Has Kiira suggested anything specific that would help address her concerns? I quote one: "We must help children take responsibility. The child must have a say." Ah, great, what a politically correct statement? How? Well, she does not know, and she probably does not have time in seeking some answers.

Here is another quote: "I look at Medvedeva’s career as an incredible success. Now it is even more successful than in Russia." Medvedeva was very successful when she was with Eteri. Now, does anyone, including Medvedeva herself, believe that she is even more successful?

The final quote: "Yes, I understand that I’m becoming an activist.(laughs) ". To me, the interview is just a show.

You clearly missed Korpi's point and her definition of success and may want to have a look at the whole quote by her

"I ask myself: 'And how do we measure success in the 21st century?' I look at Medvedeva’s career as an incredible success. Now it is even more successful than in Russia. She is freer, she can do figure skating for many more years. She inspires & touches the audience with her bold decisions. And the decision to leave was definitely not easy. Success is measured not only by the color of your medal. Every athlete is such a story! And it makes the sport charming.

zounger · Oct 29, 2019

She could have defined successfulness of a lady skater if the skater is married. Then Leonova could have been the most successful Russian lady :rock:

If she meant successful as happy, then probably she found a device to measure happiness. Korpi rules :rock:

el henry · Oct 29, 2019

zounger said:
She could have defined successfulness of a lady skater if the skater is married. Then Leonova could have been the most successful Russian lady

If she meant successful as happy, then probably she found a device to measure happiness. Korpi rules

Could you please explain this? It makes no absolutely no sense to me, in the context of Kiira’s mature, well thought out remarks?

Decoder · Oct 29, 2019

macy said:
i think she means a different kind of success for Zhenya than medals here. she has more freedom and can make her own decisions about her own skating career, similar to what Kiira said in the article. i am sure that is a win and a success for Evgenia as well.

I knew what she meant. My point is: is that the success most skaters care about the most, particularly in Zhenya's case? Did Zhenya consider her performance in Skate Canada a success? Kiira's changing the definition for others.

Decoder · Oct 29, 2019

Lunalovesskating said:
You clearly missed Korpi's point and her definition of success and may want to have a look at the whole quote by her

See my response to macy's post. Korpi was trying to define success for other skaters.

el henry · Oct 29, 2019

Decoder said:
See my response to macy's post. Korpi was trying to define success for other skaters.

And an excellent definition it was, too, one I've heard from many other skaters. Olympic gold medal winning skaters. As well as other athletes.

The medals will fade. Life will go on. And at the end of the day, it's not about the medals.

A mature and reasoned approach to life and skating:thumbsup:

macy · Oct 29, 2019

Decoder said:
I knew what she meant. My point is: is that the success most skaters care about the most, particularly in Zhenya's case? Did Zhenya consider her performance in Skate Canada a success? Kiira's changing the definition for others.

i am sure Zhenya didn't consider her competition a success, but different things are successes for different people. obviously any skater who competes wants to do their best and be happy with what they put out there, but that doesn't mean Zhenya reached success in other ways since she went to Toronto. you can win in other ways besides a gold medal.

Decoder · Oct 29, 2019

el henry said:
And an excellent definition it was, too, one I've heard from many other skaters. Olympic gold medal winning skaters. As well as other athletes.

The medals will fade. Life will go on. And at the end of the day, it's not about the medals.

A mature and reasoned approach to life and skating:thumbsup:

"The medals will fade. Life will go on. And at the end of the day, it's not about the medals." - Brilliant! Imagine you say this to a kid (and his/her parents) who just starts skating.

I guess Zhenya might have already heard/read something similar, but I bet she would have some other thoughts.

I am all for healthy and good skating. I just think talking is easy, talking-only is bad, and people need to do hard work.

Interesting interview with Kiira Korpi about coaching and training

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.

newyn

moriel

neud

Match Penalty

flanker

nussnacker

one and only

newyn

flanker

mrrice

newyn

Decoder

macy

Lunalovesskating

Moonbear power 🐻

zounger

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.

Decoder

Decoder

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.

macy

Decoder

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