Interesting interview with Kiira Korpi about coaching and training | Page 3 | Golden Skate

Interesting interview with Kiira Korpi about coaching and training

rain

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Joined
Jul 29, 2003
I debated whether to even bring this interview here. I actually waited a day or so before posting it. I hoped when starting the thread that it wouldn't immediately be hijacked by Eteri apologists and Russia defenders, because this article is about so much more than that. Kiira says so in no uncertain terms. Russia is not immune from criticism, but she makes it clear that nobody else is either — particularly not her home country.

I thought immediately when I read it of the Coughlin scandal and the conversations it has brought up about how girls are looked at and valued in pairs and dance training. I thought of the U.S. gymnastics implosion due only in part to the Nassar obscenity (he was just the ultimate outcome of an incredibly broken system that has not yet found its way). Not nearly enough hard questions are being pursued about the abusive (not just sexual) training so many of these "successful" gymnasts have endured over the years, not the least of which is at the hands of the Karolyis, who, for so many years, were untouchable, given absolute carte blanche and put up on a pedestal so high nobody dared to speak against the isolation tactics, promotion of starvation, and the inadequate (to say the least) attention to serious injuries. Too many people still lament their loss in the sport and the "success" they wrought. It's grotesque. This should have stood as a warning to all sports, figure skating included, but it has not.

I also thought of a friend of mine who was a college athlete in a team sport and had her entire experience blighted by an abusive coach (psychologically, emotionally and even physically — it's easy for coaches to do in team sports, all they have to do is call it "drills" and it's justified as "training"). I don't think he was ever stopped until he retired, with all his honours, because nobody wanted to hear from some nobody ball players when he had brought the school so much "success". The abuse he perpetrated continues to have repercussions on these now-former athletes to this day, many decades later.

Isn't it horribly ironic how some posters here are saying Korpi doesn't have the right to comment or question the system in skating? Isn't that what all these abusive systems tell the athletes they feed off of?

Current athletes are afraid to speak up because they fear (not without cause) that it could ruin their career or future in the sport. Past athletes who speak out are attacked and belittled like Korpi has endured, and the Couglin accusers.

So I say, continue to speak up Kiira, don't let those who would try to silence you distract from your important message with personal attacks and crazy conspiracy theories. Those that do so are threatened by what you say. Maybe they have a reason to be.
 

readernick

Medalist
Joined
Dec 5, 2015
The reaction of a certain group of posters on this forum tells you all you need to know about how much they actual care about the physical and mental health of the young figure skaters they watch. They always make negative comments anytime someone brings up physical, mental and emotional health. Anytime someone asks questions..I think Kiira is correct they don't want questions asked because they know the answers aren't good.

Kiira Korpi is the perfect person to speak about this subject because she was some who grew up in the system. She is clear this is not about one coach or country it is about a worldwide coach culture that needs to change.

She is very brave to bring her concerns forward. Hopefully, we will see more former skaters discuss the issues they faced in figure skating. Improving the sport is not just about technical advancement, it is also about advancing methods used to acheive results. And most importantly, the long term physical, mental, and emotional health of the children involved in the sport.
 

Amei

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Nov 11, 2013
Current athletes are afraid to speak up because they fear (not without cause) that it could ruin their career or future in the sport. Past athletes who speak out are attacked and belittled like Korpi has endured, and the Couglin accusers..

My issue with Korpi's statement that started the criticism on her is that she did it tied to a video for a specific skater - the article is not bad but that was in reaction to the criticism that was sparked by her initial tweet that referenced a specific skater. She should have left the video out and Shcherbakova's name off the tweet.
 

Seruleane

Final Flight
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Jan 11, 2014
I think most sports at the elite level are unhealthy to a certain degree for adults and kids. Most serious athletes really tear down their body and end up requiring multiple surgeries. I have seen former athletes basically become cripples when they get older, due to all their orthopedic issues. It is sad, and most health professionals would probably not recommend the type of training regimen that most elite athletes endure. This is why you see many former athletes, such as figure skater Alexei Yagudin choose for their kids to NOT do figure skating. Regarding the related topic of eating disorders and psychological abuse, I agree it should be addressed and I didn't see anything wrong with Kira Korpi's general remarks. I personally, would not have named anyone specifically, especially a 15 year old girl, and she did back away from that when they asked her point blank if she was just referring to Russian ladies. As I have stated in another thread, I have many skaters that I am personally suspicious of having an eating disorder, based on their interviews, physique, coaches statements, etc. but I don't feel right naming anyone or speculating about anyone's "health issues", because coming from me, a layperson, it would just be gossip. I would argue that even a medical professional would be reluctant to make any type of statements not knowing the details or personal history of the skaters. Of course, the spotlight will always be on the Russia ladies because they are currently the best in the world. And if you are a fan of the Russian ladies, as I am, of course these allegations will be offensive, as I hope these amazing ladies are healthy (as healthy as an elite athlete can be), happy, and strong with a good, supportive coaching team so they can have wonderful careers. I understand that the training environment is very strict, even harsh. In interviews with many other figure skaters from other countries and other coaches, I get the sense that this is a universal theme.
 

anonymoose_au

Insert weird opinion here
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It seems to me that the interviewer did Kiira no favours by specifically bringing up Anna and the other Russians, although I still didn't get the impression Kiira was saying their situation was abusive.

When I think of verbally abusive coaches, the one who comes to mind immediately is Anna Pogorila's coach, who after Pogo's very painful skate at...some GP event thought it was appropriate to tell off Anna in the kiss and cry when it was clear she was injured. Like if that's a what the coach thinks is fine to do on TV in front of everyone I shudder to think what she'd say in a private training session.

I don't think anyone expects coaches to coddle their students, but it shouldn't be asking too much for them to respect their students. And picking apart a student's performance after they've injured themselves is not respectful or responsible.
 
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rain

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Joined
Jul 29, 2003
It seems to me that the interviewer did Kiira no favours by specifically bringing up Anna and the other Russians, although I still didn't get the impression Kiira was saying their situation was abusive.

When I think of verbally abusive coaches, the one who sound to mind immediately is Anna Pogorila's coach, who after Pogo's very painful skate at...some GP event thought it was appropriate to tell off Anna in the kiss and cry rhythm when it was clear she was injured. Like if that's a what the coach thinks is fine to do on TV I'm front of everyone I shudder to think what she'd say in a private training session.

I don't think anyone expects coaches to coddle their students, but it shouldn't be asking too much for them to respect their students. And picking apart a student's performance after they've injured themselves is not respectful or responsible.

Yeah, I thought she was saying that seeing these young girls giving these great performances and looking so happy with their wins made her pause and wonder, having been there herself, if everything behind the scenes is as wonderful as it appears. Figure skating, as a sport, does rather thrive on facades, to some degree, as a performance sport. Kiira's been behind the curtain, so to speak, and so can't just accept the facade.
 

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.
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I would much rather talk about the message than complain and moan about whatever else the messenger may have done or not done; far more interesting to me:)

I was contemplating Kiira’s take on home schooling. I know that Jason attended regular high school in the US, but I don’t know of many others who did. Does that contribute to an unhealthy or over-emphasis on athletics? Is it healthy? Is it a “necessary evil” for an elite skater?

:think:
 

Harriet

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I know that Jason attended regular high school in the US, but I don’t know of many others who did.

Brooklee Han did (skated for Australia, resident in the US). And plenty of skaters outside the US do it as a matter of course.
 

Shayuki

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Nov 2, 2013
Never mind. It's a waste of time to respond to this.
Well, Korpi's frequently criticized specifically Russian coaching. She called Russian skaters factory-produced. I think it's pretty rude. She does have experience with American and Finnish coaching, yet she constantly badmouths Russian coaching. I'm not sure how familiar she is with Russian coaching. To me at least, how the Team Tutberidze girls get along is very heartwarming and I really don't see a sign of that "poor atmosphere", in fact the girls look very social, safe and comfortable, unlike those of many other coaching regimes.

When she was doing commentary for Finnish YLE as well, she constantly talked ill of the young Russian girls.
 

rain

Record Breaker
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Jul 29, 2003
I would much rather talk about the message than complain and moan about whatever else the messenger may have done or not done; far more interesting to me:)

I was contemplating Kiira’s take on home schooling. I know that Jason attended regular high school in the US, but I don’t know of many others who did. Does that contribute to an unhealthy or over-emphasis on athletics? Is it healthy? Is it a “necessary evil” for an elite skater?

:think:

I've known people who were home schooled who were perfectly well-adjusted — sometimes even more well-adjusted than a bad school experience can leave a person. The one thing that I think parents should be aware of and make sure happens is that the student has enough contact with their peers that they know how to relate to their peer group. That goes for people who home school for any reason. I'd think that in skating the danger would be potentially making the child's entire world about the sport. That's not healthy. Everyone needs to have perspective.
 

nussnacker

one and only
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Mar 16, 2019
Funnily enough, it looks like quite a few Kiira defenders here did not actually read the article, but based their comments on her tweet and what they supposed she meant (which turned out to be wrong). I pointed it out in my original comment, but tried to put it „nicely“ there.

In cases where the abuse actually happens, usually whenever it’s brought to light the identity of victims, especially children, is carefully concealed. It’s done FOR children, to protect them.
So these kinds of implications/suspicions coming not from anyone, but from a children rights activist, seem especially careless. The fact that the children rights activist allows herself to do something that might potentially harm a child, that’s what’s horribly ironic.

If Anna or her family heard something like this, I doubt they’d just brush it off. I hope they did though, or that they heard nothing about it.

I‘m glad Kiira took courage to share her personal experience and the truth about Finnish federation, it was extremely brave of her. Still, the means she used to achieve this attention, by naming a child that has nothing to do with this, does not justify her goal.

I also find it interesting that any criticism of those who wanted bring attention to what she did there, is being labeled as „Eteri defenders/Russian apologists“ or "complaining and moaning". Extremely disturbing that some people are unable to see any valid criticism, just because seeing the blame in „Eteri/russia defenders“ became such a common thing to do.

Good luck to Kiira with fighting for the right cause. I sincerely believe she meant no harm, but I hope she will learn to be more careful in the future.
 

flanker

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My original post was "language censored", so I'll try to write it with some corrections:

I just don't like self-proclaimed protectors of the universe. Yes, some coaches can be brute and harsh, but then speak about particular cases where you have evidence and what was wrong in this particular case. I really don't think it is useful to start speaking about the problem the way Kiira did, it's counterproductive, in fact if she truly means her words honestly, than she has to connect precisely with coaches, parents etc., not defame them with the first sentence. I think that Anna, Alina, Aliona and Sasha (and many other succesful kids from many countries) have very specific opinion about whether they need to be protected precisely by this kind of effort of this woman. The rhetoric used by her is as if every child wouldn't have its own mind, parents etc., as if she knew what's best for the kids more then the kids themselves and their closest friends and family. The phrases about "obsolete methods", "we have 21st century", that's a rhetoric people use when they bash opponents but don't have actual arguments or evidence (and she definitely didn't, when she started to speak about this as a reaction to Anna), so they want to somehow defame or bellitle the opponents. It is a contrast to Alina's "listen to parents, to coaches, they know what they are doing, children sometimes don't."

-

Now, it's not like that people don't care about the health, mental or physical, of those young athletes, as some noncritical fans of Kiira's words assume. It's that the words are definitely not so "non-targeted" as they claim. The timing of those words, the pointing of Medvedeva's case ("now she is more succesful, will have longer career" etc.), it's obvious that she compares very concrete cases, so it's definitely not neutral statement. And again, I'm stating that before she made such claim directly connected with Anna, she was obliged to speak with her in the first place before making such action. As I've stated, she didn't ask question, she proceeded to the conclusion and that's completely wrong (morally) way how to start a campaign like this.
 

Leppis

On the Ice
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Oct 6, 2017
Well, Korpi's frequently criticized specifically Russian coaching. She called Russian skaters factory-produced. I think it's pretty rude. She does have experience with American and Finnish coaching, yet she constantly badmouths Russian coaching. I'm not sure how familiar she is with Russian coaching. To me at least, how the Team Tutberidze girls get along is very heartwarming and I really don't see a sign of that "poor atmosphere", in fact the girls look very social, safe and comfortable, unlike those of many other coaching regimes.

When she was doing commentary for Finnish YLE as well, she constantly talked ill of the young Russian girls.

As a Finn myself, I never noticed this when listening to her commentary. Would you have any examples of this? The only thing I remember is her saying that a bit more experienced skaters have more artistic skills and experience in skating with emotion. I wouldn't say that as talking ill of the young Russian skaters as she likely noted that this skill will develop through age. As far as i can remember, she always applauded their technical abilities.
 

nussnacker

one and only
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As a Finn myself, I never noticed this when listening to her commentary. Would you have any examples of this? The only thing I remember is her saying that a bit more experienced skaters have more artistic skills and experience in skating with emotion. I wouldn't say that as talking ill of the young Russian skaters as she likely noted that this skill will develop through age. As far as i can remember, she always applauded their technical abilities.

I can respond for this. Here's her take from an interview about her recently published autobiography. Congratulations on her new book by the way.

https://zen.yandex.ru/media/id/5d76...nal-happiness-part-3-5d9d10024e057700ae87bfbe

A few notes I caught out. Kiira seems to be mentioning psychological abuse with a number of skaters.

I love Zhenya Medvedeva – both as a figure skater and as a person. She was right to come to Canada after a psychological injure.

She is super! But I’m not sure that Alina will last long. It is evident that she is often terribly afraid of making a mistake. She should have more freedom in her heart and relaxation, like Carolina! Understanding that she will be supported for any performance, but that might be difficult in her current training environment.

And I believe her conclusions about coaching in Russia were formed through her friend spending some time in Moscow:

Therefore, some things that I got know about Russian coaches shocked me. My friend trained for some time at the Moscow school of figure skating and found out about the terrible psychological techniques of eminent trainers, who violate the rights of children. Cries, an authoritarian tone, a ban on food, punishments for not fulfilling a plan.

However, this one experience of her friend seems to have made her feel this is a universal and common training for every school in Russia? :scratch2: I have doubts she actually thinks like that, but the way she generalizes things, it does appear so.

Once again, I believe she has only good intentions in mind. She seems devoted to her cause and as a former skater she could share some valuable lessons that others are afraid to speak of.
But unless she actually knows for sure, saying 'psychological injury' about every other skater is a little bit ... careless. She seems to use this word freely, however I think she should understand that this is a serious accusation that she's throwing around.
 

flanker

Record Breaker
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Feb 10, 2018
Country
Czech-Republic
Thanks for the link, nussnacker. Interresting, e.g. her words about Alina. Compared to words about Zhenya. I've never seen Alina happier than she is now, yet for this woman she is just "afraid of making mistakes" and she probably won't last long in her "current training environment".

So much about not being biased and having the good intentions.
 

pohatta

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 15, 2005
Her answers sound like they were translated from English to Russian and then back from Russian to English.
 

WeakAnkles

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Aug 1, 2011
I just don't like self-proclaimed protectors of the universe.

I have a lot of admiration for them. They usually do it at great personal cost, in terms of the emotional and psychological if not outright physical abuse they get for speaking out. Defaming and belittling in such cases is NEVER a one way street.
 

flanker

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I have a lot of admiration for them. They usually do it at great personal cost, in terms of the emotional and psychological if not outright physical abuse they get for speaking out. Defaming and belittling in such cases is NEVER a one way street.

To this, I can quote my own line: "I think that Anna, Alina, Aliona and Sasha (and many other succesful kids from many countries) have very specific opinion about whether they need to be protected precisely by this kind of effort of this woman."

Experience with the complete strangers telling people what's the best for them, for their children, for their country, when nobody asked about their help, tought us to be careful.
 

Shayuki

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Nov 2, 2013
I have a lot of admiration for them. They usually do it at great personal cost, in terms of the emotional and psychological if not outright physical abuse they get for speaking out. Defaming and belittling in such cases is NEVER a one way street.
On the other hand, it first of all is not their business nor their culture(important! these days) and secondly, they're convinced they're correct and won't listen to anything suggesting otherwise. Let's remember Kiira herself had it pretty rough and herself had severe issues with eating disorders and also suffered several injuries due to malnutrition - that to me doesn't sound like someone who can be objective about these matters.
 
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