2019 Internationaux de France: Day 2

It’s hard to describe just how heart wrenching that Uno’s skate was.

But I did love Hiwatashi’s skate, glad Samarin repeat landed that quad lutz combo, and my cat stans Kevin, apparently. No, seriously, the feline snoozed through the whole morning until Kevin started spinning, got up, stared at Kevin, then gave me the look. I was really happy for him, but Nguyen still leads by a huge margin imo in the home triumph free skate department. Voronov looked better than in Finlandia, so I breathed out a sigh of relief. Chen, thanks goodness for Nathan, because I need predictable good news in men’s figure skating.

Where men delivered heartbreak in spades, ladies was all lovely. I love Sakomoto’s Matrix more than anything else ladies this year. I loved both Alena and Alina, and that barrage of axels was pretty cool! I still can’t let go of the Mariah the Blade association from last year, but she was so light and pretty, if only it wasn’t the Hallelujah again, I might have cheered for her coming ahead of Sakomoto.

I loved both Russian pairs.

Please give Shoma a new coach to fix his jumps. It’s hearbreaking to see him in this state, he’s so talented but needs to have faith in him. Each time I see him falling badly I’m always thinking if he will be ok to keep going :shocked:

I like the Fame on ice. I didn’t know people could do aerobic and dancing at the same time. I really enjoy the SP from the french champions. It was refreshing.

Roast Toast said:

I pulled myself together slightly to enjoy P/C, but really Shoma soured the entire day for me. Just awful. Sometimes I think skaters should be able to just walk away in the middle of a program.

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Technically after a fall a skater could be "injured" and WD at that point?

Amei said:

Technically after a fall a skater could be "injured" and WD at that point?

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I mean yes of course they're not gonna drag around a guy with a broken leg so he can finish his program :eeking: I just meant that it was clear midway through that Shoma was not gonna land any of the remaining jumps and every time the splats got worse, the more he risked injury.

Men:
Shoma :scard7::sad21:
Overall pretty messy, wish Aymoz had been cleaner so he could've gotten silver, but still overall good.
Samarin's FS shirt looks like it has Pennywise, the clown from IT, on the back.
Nathan was pretty good. I'd like to point out he was going for 4T-1Eu-3F before Yuzu this season.

Ladies:
Very low marking overall. They called everyones UR's if not a little it too harshly, but the PCS

In my opinion, Bell should've been second overall. Zagitova's UR's were VERY evident in the replays, although both programs are nice.
Sakamoto's PCS in the free were a joke, so was her TES going down 10. Her FS imo should've been at least 140.
Kostornaia was great. Her 3A's (and every other jump) are so gorgeous (although so are the spins and skating my gosh)

Pairs:
Glad Mishina/Galliamov beat P/K Don't like P/K's free, personally I think their short is much better.
IMO Denney and Frasier should've at least won the free.
The male announcer really needs to start using the word and between the names of the pairs, it drove me absolutely insane.

Dance:
P/C were amazing. Fame is my favourite dance program in a while, and they've found a way to have an innovative FD while still sticking to their style, which I applaud.
Overall I thought this was a really strong GP dance wise.
C/B's FD is REALLY cool, the arms
G/F were also quite good.

Ladies: Nice to see two black girls-- so rare in FS. And both so fun to watch, except for the jumps. But Mae is still my hero.
It was a good day for US ladies, but unfortunately it came at Japan's cost. :sad21: Not a fan of Mariah's programs, but I am loving her level of consistency. A well deserved bronze!
I've never seen Kostornaia skate before, and I was impressed with her lines. And her triple axels are pretty.

Ice Dance: I didn't get P/C's free dance. The spoken word and movement didn't mix for me, but I have a feeling that they will have changed my mind by the end of the season. On a side note, all of the best RDs from Gadbois (P/C, H/B, S/D, F/G) involve moving and grooving. They can really get the crowd involved!
I enjoyed both of R/A's programs. The choreography is great. I'm glad they got the opportunity to show them. (Though I am bummed for M/C.)
I have high hopes for Z/G's FD. Once they get a little more training under their belts, it will take them far.

Step Sequence4 said:

Men:
Nathan was pretty good. I'd like to point out he was going for 4T-1Eu-3F before Yuzu this season.

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I though so too because Yuzu never tried before and even his 1st competition this season, and I think he might have noticed it from Nathan layout at Japan Open and Skate America. And decided to do it.

I like Kevin but I dont think the FS is very good. The SP is better. And sorry but his PCs should be in the 8s because I dont really see much skating skills to be better to be fair. It is improving but feels slow in the ice and not much edge.

Samarin did well and do think the Russian Fed is making him #1 given Micah is out during the GPF.

century2009 said:

I though so too because Yuzu never tried before and even his 1st competition this season, and I think he might have noticed it from Nathan layout at Japan Open and Skate America. And decided to do it.

I like Kevin but I dont think the FS is very good. The SP is better. And sorry but his PCs should be in the 8s because I dont really see much skating skills to be better to be fair. It is improving but feels slow in the ice and not much edge.

Samarin did well and do think the Russian Fed is making him #1 given Micah is out during the GPF.

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Hanyu was practicing the 4T-eu-3F during the Autumn Classic practices. https://www.rockerskating.com/news/2019/9/11/2019-autumn-classic-international-practice-notes
Which was held before Japan Open.

Sharing my thoughts about those I've watched.

Nicolas... his chreosq made me smile. Good performance and he seemed satisfied.

Daniel...error followed by another error. I thought the stsq is cool though, like he vented out his frustrations through that. Good effort.

Sergei...great start. Unfortunate for the popped jumps but I find it impressive that he is able to jump a quad at that age.

Morisi...not a fan of that shirt and his program but congratulations for the new SB.

Shoma... still no coach? awww... he's made a lot of errors on his quads and axel. His falls were even scary (I hope he doesn't suffer anything serious out of these scary falls), yet he really kept trying. Artistically wise, he did well imo. It's strange to see him with such a low score. Better luck on the next competition!

Romain...not fond of this performance but good effort in that skae.

Alexander... Similarly to Morisi, I am no fan of that shirt. What's with that weird face at the back? Hmm... There were a couple of mistakes on the jumps and his coach is rather very displeased. Nonetheless, he's got a SB so good job. Congratulations for winning silver.

Kevin... despite the technical errors, he's had a good skate overall and put a lot of expression and feeling to his skate. Congratulations for winning 3rd.

Nathan... erm, another shirt that is boring. Good save on that Lutz though, and the chsq was really fun and he seemed to have enjoyed it. Congratulations for the gold.

Well... out to watch the ladies...:dance:

WARNING: LONG POST AHEAD
I've decided to do a project which involves me re-scoring the top 6 in each GP (for ladies only, sorry!). I've done lot of re-scoring stuff for a long time because it's fun seeing how different my opinions are from the judges, and I've even shared a couple of them on this forum! So I decided to do the same for this project whenever I have the time

Since I'm the lone judge here, GOEs for each element will be set values instead of means, and PCS will always end with a 0, so it'll be quite different from taking the average of 9 judges. Also, I initially judged live (or with no spoilers), so I did my best to mimic how these skates are really scored. Which means...
1) I didn't immediately replay elements during the performance, and usually didn't mark URs/edges unless they were very obvious in real-time. Like the judges, I waited until the slow-mo to pay closer attention to these elements.
2) For spin/step levels, I first went with whatever the TES box showed after the element was completed. Then when the protocols came out, I changed the levels to match whatever's on the protocol as I'm not too good with levels yet . This also applies to URs/edge calls that I didn't notice when watching live.

Since noting each element is too long and way topic: for this thread, I'll just show the final scores for the top 4 and a few minor notes. The brackets contain placements and how much the score derives from the original.

1. Alena Kostornaia 233.41 (-2.59)
SP: 44.37+33.40 = 77.77 (1) (+1.22)
Even after replaying it, I still couldn't see the UR on the 3A, so gave it full credit but also -1 for the iffy landing. Step sequence also didn't flow that well - musicality and edges were great but overall the footwork didn't look as effortless, so GOE was a little lower.
FS: 87.64+68.00 = 155.64 (-3.81)
Basically agreed with the judges on TES. Meanwhile, PCS went down because of the odd composition as well as performance (she really needs better projection in the first 2/3). I marked the other three categories relatively high.

2. Mariah Bell 217.78 (+4.89)
SP: 40.00+32.20 = 72.20 (2) (+1.95)
Not a fan of the program, but she performs and interprets it nicely. Elements were pretty well done.
FS: 75.98+69.60 = 145.58 (+2.94)
I thought GOEs for a few elements were undermarked, which explains the rise in TES. PCS is nearly the same - wasn't a big fan of her before, but I think this program and her amazing performance of it makes her worthy of high PCS.

3. Alina Zagitova 204.78 (-11.28)
SP: 38.19+32.60 = 70.79 (3) (-3.45)
Both the full edge call and the time violation were absolutely bogus IMO, so I removed them (though her lutz was still !). TES is still lower because I felt overall GOEs were far too generous. As for the program, it looked really good at the test skates, but felt lacking here - she needs more power and conviction.
FS: 69.19+64.80 = 133.99 (-7.83)
TES is a bit higher because I removed the UR on the 3T, but PCS is much, much lower. It's a nice program, but SS still need improvement and there are many empty or odd moments which affected the overall composition.

4. Kaori Sakamoto 62.88 (7) + 136.69 (3) = 199.57 (+0.33)
SP: 31.08+32.80-1 = 62.88 (7) (-1.20)
Not too far from the original score. Her SS and interpretation really saved her here.
FS: 68.29+68.40 = 136.69 (3) (+1.53)
Didn't detect URs on initial view, but later I was surprised to see that she did indeed UR a couple times, especially since she usually doesn't get any. Interestingly, PCS is the exact same as the original.

If I undermarked your fave, then I'm sorry and please don't attack me...this is just for fun and I have my own opinion just as you have yours :confused2:

Dreamer57 said:

My heart shattered for Shoma but I truly believe that he can only go upwards from here.

For the first time I felt like I understood why Alena likes her Twilight free so much. She skated like an angel and a rock star! Also loved Kaori's Matrix. They both made me forget about the obvious ice issues...

Well done to M/G, great way to start your senior GP debut with a gold! I enjoyed seeing D/F too.

(I'd also like to nominate the U.K. as a replacement host for IdF as I would really like to hear the B.Esp guys again or maybe even Robin Cousins with extra luck!)

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I could get on board for that! Bringing a big comp over to the UK would maybe restart the interest in skating over here.

Interspectator said:

Hanyu was practicing the 4T-eu-3F during the Autumn Classic practices. https://www.rockerskating.com/news/2019/9/11/2019-autumn-classic-international-practice-notes
Which was held before Japan Open.

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Skaters are practicing Quints, 4Axel, and other unplanned jumps in practices, doesnt mean they are going to do it And Hanyu did NOT do for the event. While Nathan, did go for it in Japan Open.

century2009 said:

Skaters are practicing Quints, 4Axel, and other unplanned jumps in practices, doesnt mean they are going to do it And Hanyu did NOT do for the event. While Nathan, did go for it in Japan Open.

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I replied to your post

I think he might have noticed it from Nathan layout at Japan Open and Skate America. And decided to do it.

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And disagreed with your opinion because 1. Nathan did not do it in Japan Open, if one is going to be exact about jumps in practice and attempts in competition, one can be exact about attempts at jumps and successful attempts at jumps.
2. Hanyu had been practicing it within his jumping layout in a open practice before Japan Open.
One could just as easily say that Nathan noticed Hanyu practicing the combo it public practice (it was live streamed, and much shared on lots of Social Media sites) and decided to try it at Japan Open etc. etc. -It's a reach either way.

Just a few random thoughts:
Shoma Uno was heartbreaking on every level. I don´t know how he was able to keep performing. Kevin Aymoz lifted me up a bit by getting a medal. I´m watching his short on repeat, such a great program.
I´m also heartbroken for Kaori Sakamoto, who finally managed a clean free and still placed fourth again. I think her matrix program will be my favourite ladies program this season.

In ice dance I like both P/C and C/B free dance a lot. In G/Fs free for me the first half is great, esspially the steps to the countdown, but it loses a bit in the second half.
It becomes more and more clear to me that I have a problem with the choreographic step sequences in ice dance. They are usually creative and great to watch, but often involve too much standing still and posing for my taste. They involve not much skating or dancing, yet earn lots of points. P/C and C/B are an example for that. Their choreo sequences look great and get the crowd going, but basically consist of posing.

Not sure why it matters, but Nathan has been doing that 4T1eu3F for a couple years in practice. He just finally put it in his program. I'm also sure Hanyu has been practicing it for awhile. They both just happened to do it around the same time. I'm guessing both have a few tricks they'll add in along the way. Hanyu's 4lz... Nathan's 4lo... who knows.

internationaux de fail. :dev2:

Sorry if my reply sounded intense. : Tone can't be easily conveyed in a post. In my mind my posts are all said in a conversational and laid-back tone with a neutral emoji on top.
Just a counter-opinion about where jump layouts form. -Probably from a lot of different influences and personal preferences and a hard look at the protocols. (there's my reach)

What might be an upgrade from a 4T-eu-3F for Nathan? -to get things back on topic of the winner here at IDF?
-Can there be a higher scoring combo than this?

Nice to have the first GP roughly in my time zone AND a possibility to have a few days off and get to watch all I wanted to. I watched all of ladies and men, fell asleep (literally) during the RD and the for the FD just watched Papadakis/Cizeron.

Alena Kostornaia is undoubtedly my favourite female skater after a very long time with no particular likes. I am so pleased they got the 3A into the SP as well. Her finish and quality of movement is just amazing, her speed and sureness of it all brilliant. It is pretty amazing to know this was her first senior GP with the first time going for the three 3As and she seemed as cool as a cucumber! No visible signs of nerves whatsoever. The performances were good overall, the tech panel being a bit all over the place with URs in the SP, but they did give the first 3A in the FS which did really look like an UR. I looke forward to seeing her develop the program as she settles into the new tech additions and can't wait to see her go head to head with Kihira at NHK.

Zagitova looked a bit tight and nervous particularly in the FS. She was much better in the Japan Open IMO with even traces of finish of movement and interpretation, but here she was mostly executing the moves and not very well, sloppy stuff for the most part. I still keep wondering what in that choreo is Cleopatra - she was the ruler of Egypt in a thoroughly Hellenistic world, descendant of Greek ancestry, rubbing shoulders (and probably also other parts of her body) with the Roman big men (Mark Antony and Julius Caesar), so the kind of latter day orientalish tunes feel just off and weird. It will be so interesting to see what will happen at the Russian Nationals this year...

Mariah Bell did good for self, still think Kaori's programs are too much for her to handle (the Matrix is a great choreo, but how she executes it has none of the shaprness or danger or glory, it should have), Wakaba's SP is very good and cool (what Kaori is also looking for), but the FS she just skated through after the problems with the jumps started.

In the men, I think Nathan did what was expected and needed, and the 4T-1Eu-3F just after Hanyu had done it was kind of cool (don't know if it was a coincidence that it worked ok this time - the two previous comps have had 1F and 2F versions). Not quite the biggest quality event for Nathan, but it got him to GPF and that was the aim, I am sure. The SP is still better IMO than the random Elton John song medley of a FS. But the hiphop saves the day usually.

What struck me here most was that now that Shoma has become volatile and inconsistent, the top in men's skating is superthin: Chen and Hanyu and that's just about it. The rest really can't get anywhere near those two. I did my personal GPF final predictions and could easily come up with 5 ladies (Kihira, Kostornaia, Scherbakova, Trusova, Zagitova) who would be in Torino if nothing really unexpected happens with only one place being competed for by the others, but in men only 3 names to begin with and now one of them is clearly out...

But my favourite in the men was Kevin Aymoz who was clearly trying too hard in front of (literally) home crowd in the first GP as a potential medalist. He has come so far from the unpredictable and unruly and rough junior skater he was. The speed and quality of skating skills has gotten so much better, the jumps (tend to) work. What I most love about him is the originality of the choreos and his commitment to the movement, the projection to the audience, the ability to do two completely different themes with no difficulty whatsoever. I hope he learns from this experience and finds the next event more relaxed and easy to approach to!

E

Interspectator said:

Sorry if my reply sounded intense. : Tone can't be easily conveyed in a post. In my mind my posts are all said in a conversational and laid-back tone with a neutral emoji on top.
Just a counter-opinion about where jump layouts form. -Probably from a lot of different influences and personal preferences and a hard look at the protocols. (there's my reach)

What might be an upgrade from a 4T-eu-3F for Nathan? -to get things back on topic of the winner here at IDF?
-Can there be a higher scoring combo than this?

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There are news segments or video back in 2017 that he successfully landed 4t-eu-3f, 4t3t3t, and 4t-eu-3s.

News segment of 4t-eu-3F around 1:00 mark back in January 1018
https://youtu.be/IESZ4gBhGgw

In practice, he successfully played around with 4t3t3lo layout probably after watching Rizzo’s IG story back in January

century2009 said:

Skaters are practicing Quints, 4Axel, and other unplanned jumps in practices, doesnt mean they are going to do it And Hanyu did NOT do for the event. While Nathan, did go for it in Japan Open.

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Officially, Nathan jumped 4T+1Eu+1F at Japan Open
https://www.jsfresults.com/InterNational/2019-2020/japanopen/index.htm

Officially, Yuzuru jumped 4T+1Eu+3S at ACI
https://skatecanada.ca/2019-autumn-classic-international/

I did not follow Japan Open so as far as I'm concerned Nathan successfully did +1F in actual competition. Which Jackie Wong confirmed with the progression list = +1F(Japan Open),+2F(Skate America) finally success +3F in France.

I know Yuzuru tested 4T+1Eu+3F at ACI practice but in competition he did +3S. So officially it 4T+1Eu+3S.

So, if want to discuss results by competition, we go by the above.

If want to discuss in open practice & all, Yuzuru did 4T+1Eu+3F on 12 and 13 Sept.
https://www.rockerskating.com/news/2019/9/11/2019-autumn-classic-international-practice-notes

I dunno if Nathan tried the 4T+1Eu+3F at Japan Open practice but the competition was 5 October.
Nathan did successfully land +3F in practice at Skate America on 17 and 19 Oct.
https://www.rockerskating.com/news/2019/10/17/2019-skate-america-practice-notes

I would prefer to consider it as both men were planning it, just Yuzuru successfully landed it in competition 1st.
Just that some did not know cos Yuzuru did not 'test' it first with a +1F,+2F in competition