2019 Internationaux de France: Day 2

gold12345 said:

Cain/LeDuc had an opportunity to beat D/F, but they have a deficiency in lifts. They have tried to make jumps their selling point, but I can't remember the last competition, if any, that they haven't had a botched jump or least one underrotation. And this is with them watering down their SP jump so far this season. They have a presence on the ice that the Russian teams from Jrs don't yet have, but they don't have amazing skating skills and the Russians have better quality pair elements. It was a victory to get that throw 3Lz on Ashley's feet after so many falls, but she's always pitched forward. Things like this made it possible for D/F to place ahead of them.

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They’ve been having a rough start to the season but having seen them in action in the rink at practices and warmups this weekend I was blown away by their speed and the power of their basic skating skills compared to some of the others. There was one point they were doing basic crossovers in a circle and they were so fast it was gorgeous to watch. They were whipping past the others in practice. Something just seems to be sticking with elements at the moment and in competition.

LynsJ said:

They’ve been having a rough start to the season but having seen them in action in the rink at practices and warmups this weekend I was blown away by their speed and the power of their basic skating skills compared to some of the others. There was one point they were doing basic crossovers in a circle and they were so fast it was gorgeous to watch. They were whipping past the others in practice. Something just seems to be sticking with elements at the moment and in competition.

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Yes! :hap93: Their improvement has been steady and impressive in many areas. Judging from their steady rises in PC, the judges have noticed.

I was sitting on row #4 at last nationals and someone flew across the ice right in front of me. It took me a few seconds to realize it was Ashley Cain, already one of my favorites. Much faster than two years before, and faster than I'd realized from watching them on video.

Mathman said:

The NBC coverage just noiw showed the top few men and the top flight of ladies, plus Papadakis and Cizeron.

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What was up with the coverage today though? They only show the gold medalists in ice dance and from what I saw never mentioned that there was a pairs competition, but they manage to show the 8th place finishers abysmal FS from the men's competition? Why not show Chock/Bates who are Americans (the audience NBC caters to) and finished second in ice dance?

randomfan said:

Because it IS unfair. Even if she deservedly won the Olympics, it’s still not right to give her an automatic PCS boost at every competition she enters because of it. Sure, Alina’s not the only one benefitting from this kind of thing...I guess there’s nothing that can be done at this point

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It seems that you want to name the ones who are REALLY getting unfair PCS.
I am not going to got in discussion with you, but Alina earning all her PCS and doing this very fairly!

This event was the perfect answer to all complaints on why russian skaters don't use more russian music.
It should be remembered for this forever, and people should be directed to it whenever there is questioning about this subject.

LanaD said:

It seems that you want to name the ones who are REALLY getting unfair PCS.
I am not going to got in discussion with you, but Alina earning all her PCS and doing this very fairly!

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Many disagree and have discussed it sensibly. Why bother chiming in if you refuse to discuss it properly?

Amei said:

What was up with the coverage today though? They only show the gold medalists in ice dance and from what I saw never mentioned that there was a pairs competition, but they manage to show the 8th place finishers abysmal FS from the men's competition? Why not show Chock/Bates who are Americans (the audience NBC caters to) and finished second in ice dance?

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NBC has always had the WORST skating coverage of the three major American television networks. They were famous at one point for having hosts who knew nothing about skating and were obviously reading off cue cards the "factoids" provided for them. Makes me very nostalgic for the glory days of Wide World of Sports where, even if the coverage was limited at best, at least always had topflight hosts and commentators (Uncle Dick, Princess Peggy reigned supreme there for years).

LanaD said:

It seems that you want to name the ones who are REALLY getting unfair PCS.
I am not going to got in discussion with you, but Alina earning all her PCS and doing this very fairly!

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Nobody is disagreeing that she earned her scores previously. They just disagreed that she earned it in this competition. In an ideal judging system, skaters get scored in PCS based on what they put out on the ice, not because they are reigning champs.

WeakAnkles said:

NBC has always had the WORST skating coverage of the three major American television networks. They were famous at one point for having hosts who knew nothing about skating and were obviously reading off cue cards the "factoids" provided for them. Makes me very nostalgic for the glory days of Wide World of Sports where, even if the coverage was limited at best, at least always had topflight hosts and commentators (Uncle Dick, Princess Peggy reigned supreme there for years).

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I miss Dick and Peggy. Their commentary added to my understanding of the sport.

Now I am thankful that I learned about that browser that has the VPN. I watch the live feed from ISU Youtube, with no commentary whatsoever, and it is way better than what you're all complaining about. Plus... I can watch it live, play it back whenever I want, skip the performances I don't wish to see again.

As near as I can tell, it's exactly the same video feed that all the networks get.

Seruleane said:

Well, there are those who disagree. I'm a fan of Alina, so of course I'm biased, but I personally find her skating beautiful and expressive, even if there are mistakes on the jumps. She has great presence on the ice, even if her skating skills are not up to par with Kostarnaia's. Just as Medvedeva fans find her skating and programs beautiful and expressive even when she makes mistakes, or Liza's fans still enjoy her programs due to her performance ability despite the lack of transitions, etc. etc. I'm sure there are many who disagree with me, but PCS is known to be subjective. For instance, I could never for the life of me understand why Carolina Kostner still got such high PCS despite mistake-riddled programs. But many other posters feel Carolina's high PCS was deserved. Fans will always complain about other skaters getting undeserved PCS (usually they are not fans of the skater in question) but I feel Alina has been targeted non-stop. First, it was fans stating that Aliona was unfairly matched against Alina during GP events because Alina would get undeservedly high PCS due to her OGM/WC status. Then, even though Aliona won (I admit due to superior technical content as opposed to PCS), the same people continue to lambast Alina for getting higher PCS. Come on- everyone knew Aliona was not going to get as high PCS as Alina on her first senior outing. You guys predicted it yourselves already and already tore Alina apart even before the GPs started! It is unfair, but you guys are acting like this is some kind of unprecedented injustice in the skating world. Aliona won, deservedly so! Her PCS will rise rapidly. I wouldn't be surprised if Alina's PCS dropped a bit, especially if she remains inconsistent. Let's move on.

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I do like CaroK, while Liza Tuks always holds a soft spot in me. That does not mean I agree with their PCS. If you have been on this forum this long, I think you would have noticed that CaroK got plenty of slime for PCS boost. While the outcomes were what I liked, it did not mean I thought they were fair. Similarly, Liza Tuks low PCS scores bug me as a fan, but I can still accept it as she is really noticeably weak in SS. I think it is entirely possible to stay a fan of a skater while criticizing the way they have been scored. Not a fan of Zagi, but in this IdF FS, she deserved her high TR and she has noticeably improved her IN. The SS is good but certainly not at Alyona or even Sasha Trusova levels, so I think it’s not 9s. The PE to me is only mid high 7s as she was nervous and fighting through the choreo and the posture and carriage lacked her usual bearings. Overall, Alyona K should have higher SS, CO and PE but less TR and IN than Zagi.

Tara is getting better as a commentator. She had some good insights today.

For me, Alina Zagitova's first element was a good lesson in camera angle. In the real time coverage it looked to me like a flat out fall, no question. On the slow-motion replay from a different angle, it seemed just as obvious that she did not fall, never suppprted her weight on her hands or any other part of the body, and saved the jump.

Mathman said:

Tara is getting better as a commentator. She had some good insights today.
.

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Tara has noticeably improved her commentary this year (and some of last year), and she's being much more thoughtful and restrained with her content. I think she's paid attention to her critics, and she's learned from Johnny.

It's funny to me that so many folks are still making the same old complaints about Tara, but maybe it's the figure skating fan equivalent of college cafeteria food ... the fans/students need to have something to complain about!

Mathman said:

Tara is getting better as a commentator. She had some good insights today.

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I prefer their commentary better than the Russian counterpart. Also even if I get only few Spanish, TDP looks to have good commentary.

Mathman said:

Tara is getting better as a commentator. She had some good insights today.

For me, Alina Zagitova's first element was a good lesson in camera angle. In the real time coverage it looked to me like a flat out fall, no question. On the slow-motion replay from a different angle, it seemed just as obvious that she did not fall, never suppprted her weight on her hands or any other part of the body, and saved the jump.

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I absolutely agree that Tara and Johnny did better at this event, the first one I have watched their commentary this season, and gave good info about what went wrong with failed jumps. And they were kind about Shoma, which went a long way with me. And they raved about both Aliona and Mariah without downgrading either, in a most Ted Barton-esque way

Mathman said:

Tara is getting better as a commentator. She had some good insights today.

For me, Alina Zagitova's first element was a good lesson in camera angle. In the real time coverage it looked to me like a flat out fall, no question. On the slow-motion replay from a different angle, it seemed just as obvious that she did not fall, never suppprted her weight on her hands or any other part of the body, and saved the jump.

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Well that's good to hear. I found Tara and Johnny to be understudied on the ladies' field at Skate America.

I couldn't stand them previously, talking way too much, making catty remarks, Tara feeling the need to remind us she won an Olympic Gold at every opportunity.

That they're making a real effort to improve their commentary is commendable though.

I have to go back and catch up on the other disciplines but, as always, I did watch the ladies. Sorry, these are a bit long...

Alena: She's just so gorgeous to watch!:luv17: The guts and determination to hit the 3A in the SP and then two more in the FS...wow. I love her ease and speed across the ice, her posture and polish, and the way she soars into her jumps. I don't particularly care for this FS but I love the fact that she performs it so well. You can tell she really likes the program and that, at least, helps me enjoy watching her skate. Amazing GP debut for her! Triple A are 3 for 3 so far...

Alina: I don't know if she was nervous or what but this was not a good event for Alina. UR and edge call in the SP and only 3 clean triples in the FS. To say she was gifted this silver is a bit of an understatement. The fact she made the podium, let alone 2nd place, with those kinds of skates...:noshake: Alina's face after her FS said it all: she knew it was rough. Her PCS carried her, as they often do when top skaters struggle. Good for her for not dropping the performance but she was over-scored in PCS. I'm happy she fought and didn't give up, but Alina should have finished 3rd here.

Mariah: I'm thoroughly impressed with Mariah. I don't know what's changed with her but she seems to be finding her stride. I love her SP. She brings the sassy/sexy and brought the content too. I'd still like to see more flow between the jumps on the combo but I'm happy she was able to skate it cleanly. Her FS is on another level though. Absolutely stunning! Majority of the jumps were easy and secure (she has nice jumps when she's on) and her spins are really under-rated (fast, centered, lovely positions). Mariah interprets "Hallelujah" so beautifully and after that final jump...it's so rare to see pure joy in skating anymore but you could see it all over her face during the choreo sequence. So proud of her for her performances here. She deserved 2nd.

Kaori: I really need her to get herself together. She has two amazingly fabulous programs but she's not putting them together. I hate she got all of those URs in the FS but I don't disagree with them. If you go back and watch there was more hook to her landings instead of her usual fast riding edge. I hope she can figure everything out and soon...

Starr: So proud of Starr!:thumbsup: This is her best GP finish to date (previously 10th & 7th). The SP was excellent but I do think it's time for her to find another coach. Her flip and lutz technique is reminiscent of Caroline Zhang circa 2008 with the wide cranking of the arms and the high kick-toe pick slam. She's never going to get anywhere with that terrible technique. Starr has something but she won't get far without a semi-decent flip and lutz in her arsenal. I hope she has a good skate at NHK next week.

Wakaba: So sad for her. She's still struggling...

Nicole: Good fight back after her SP.

Lea: Quite impressive! She's probably most improved of this group of skaters.

Yuna: Her FS dress was disturbing! It looked like someone tried to gut her and she was bleeding to death on the ice. The effect was cool but, again, disturbing. I barely paid attention to her skating because I was so distracted by how gruesome her dress looked. Was that part of the character/music she was playing? Yikes...

Mae: Loved her SP dress, program and performance, but those jumps are hanging on by a thread...

Maria: I will miss her. I don't think we'll be seeing her on the GP beyond this year. Her jumps are just gone. I know she wasn't everyone's cuppa but I quite enjoyed her skating in her heyday. I will definitely miss her and her gorgeous dresses.

So is Mariah the only skater nowadays, who after a spiral let's her leg down in a controlled manner and a smooth motion, instead of literally just letting it drop down like it's a heavy prop, the way everyone else seems to be doing it (I don't know all the ladies, but out of those that I have watched lately)?

1111bm said:

So is Mariah the only skater nowadays, who after a spiral let's her leg down in a controlled manner and a smooth motion, instead of literally just letting it drop down like it's a heavy prop, the way everyone else seems to be doing it (I don't know all the ladies, but out of those that I have watched lately)?

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At IdF or ever among ladies today?

Ever, among ladies today, Karen Chen:luv17:

And of course among all skaters, Jason. I like to think that Mariah perfected her spiral when training with Jason

el henry said:

At IdF or ever among ladies today?

Ever, among ladies today, Karen Chen:luv17:

And of course among all skaters, Jason. I like to think that Mariah perfected her spiral when training with Jason

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In general, not just at IDF. Out of those skaters that I have watched, this is something that bothers me everytime that I see it. And I don't even enjoy spirals, but if you're gonna do one, do it properly in a nice way and follow through with it to the end? Because otherwise it ruins the whole effect, the same way catchfoot camel spins with a bent skating leg are a big no-no for me, it just ruins the overall look of the whole position.

Right, Karen, forgot about her and her classic spirals.
The way Karen and Jason are exiting their spirals is fine, but the way Mariah did it still looked a lot nicer and really stood out to me.