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Thread: FFKKR appealed to ISU over inconsistency in judging at the GP stages

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    Alyona Kostornaya - skating off into the unknown.. Edwin's Avatar
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    FFKKR appealed to ISU over inconsistency in judging at the GP stages

    Russia appealed to ISU with the question of inconsistency of refereeing at the stages of the Grand Prix

    A new grading system for an element with a graduation from minus five points to plus five was introduced in the current Olympic cycle

    MOSCOW, November 12. / TASS /. The Russian Figure Skating Federation (FFKKR) appealed to the International Skating Union (ISU) with the question of inconsistent decisions of some judges during the stages of the Grand Prix series. This was announced at a press conference in TASS on Tuesday by the General Director of the FFKKR Aleksander Kogan.

    “Our federation turned to the ISU tech committee with a question about the inconsistency of decisions - they find an edge in some, not in others. Some other errors. The new system of plus five - minus five allows more use of opportunities from judges, so judging has become more subjective, " said Kogan.

    “At the same Tuktamysheva's grades for an element ranged from plus three to minus one. There is no single approach to assessing the quality of an element, and this is one of the biggest problems,” Kogan emphasized.

    A new grading system for an element with a gradation from minus five points to plus five was introduced in the current Olympic cycle, earlier ratings ranged from minus three to plus three.
    -----
    From: https://tass.ru/sport/7104064

    Another quote from Kogan:

    "I really hope that refereeing at our stage will be more objective than at some other stages. I hope that we will see not only excellent skating, but also objective refereeing," Kogan said at a press conference.
    -----
    From: https://rsport.ria.ru/20191112/1560837612.html

    There was a pre-competition press conference at FFKKR, must find the transcripts: https://fsrussia.ru/press-tsentr/473...-v-moskve.html

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    FigureSkatingPhenom draqq's Avatar
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    This is what happens when you have a system that becomes more and more picky. Just 5 degrees of difference can lead to a < or not, an ! or not, and it depends on the makeup of the technical panel and the angle of the camera used for the judges' replay, and whether the judge counts the < when the tip of the blade hits the ice or when the full blade hits the ice. ! calls are an even grayer zone (there's no ! for under-rotation calls). So the spread of what judge gives what can vary whether that person believes there is an edge call or not.

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    That the work of tech panels has raised serious questions is the fact now rather than whining of Russian fans. Unfortunately, a reasonable explanation what lies behind this inconsistency, the one that I offered, is still considered to be a conspiracy theory.

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    I will laugh hard in a couple of days...

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    This is more or less a reasonable move. ISU should at least start addressing the issue in a more formal way?

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    The result may be not so pleasant for RusFed.
    This Saturday the 1st-3rd places above female skaters may be quite unpredictable (knowing how ISU likes any such "addressing").

    Instead of '!' they will be awarded with 'e'. The 'e' becomes '<', the '<' becomes '<<' etc.

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    I mean he's not wrong.

    Shcherbakova got ! on all her lutz at the last event, and you can look in the replay at least two of them were on the outside edge, and that is very important cause she has 4 lutzes in her programs, and judges would have given her high GOE for the second quad if there wasn't the !

    He's also not wrong on Tutkamysheva, cause i don't think i've ever seen a +4 or a +5 even on her bread and butter Lutz, even from difficult entrance like she does in the short. (yes it's more difficult steps than other lutzes which got +4/+5 this season).

    I really don't understand what's difficult, in 2019 you should have all the tools to check if an egde is correct or not, if a jump is clean or underrotated, from all angles possible. The guidelines on GOE are available to everyone, why you have to weight some more than other, that's arbitrary.

    The rules are very clear, you just have to follow them instead of making your own.

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    As if only Russians are victims if this inconsistency.

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    #сердцемсЗагитовой nussnacker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alegria View Post
    As if only Russians are victims if this inconsistency.
    Russian federation is responsible only for Russian skaters, hence they make appeals only when there’s something that concerns Russian skaters. Other skaters from other countries are none of their business, and don’t fall into their jurisdiction.

    Other federations, if they have concerns, should do the same. No one’s stopping them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolstoj View Post
    Shcherbakova got ! on all her lutz at the last event, and you can look in the replay at least two of them were on the outside edge, and that is very important cause she has 4 lutzes in her programs, and judges would have given her high GOE for the second quad if there wasn't the !
    Agree, at least Anna's 2nd 4Lz was on the outside edge. But the most disgusting was 'e' in SP and two '!' in FP for Alina's clean lutzes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nussnacker View Post
    Russian federation is responsible only for Russian skaters, hence they make appeals only when there’s something that concerns Russian skaters. Other skaters from other countries are none of their business, and don’t fall into their jurisdiction.

    Other federations, if they care, should do the same.
    As the Russian skaters are that ideal. It's not like judges are always unfair or they always against Russian skaters.
    I think this inconsistency is beneficial for Russian skaters. So I'm surprised, that Kogan wants refereeing be more "objective".

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    Making rhinestone vest and tie combos cool anonymoose_au's Avatar
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    Oh so now the Russian Figure Skating Fed is supporting Liza? Better late than never I suppose.

    Although, I'm pretty sure if everything had remained the same, but it had been Sofia S in second place rather than Satoko/a non-Russian skater no tosses would have been given.

    It would be nice to get an explanation for Liza's low GOE I jumps though. It makes no sense.

  13. #13
    #сердцемсЗагитовой nussnacker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alegria View Post
    As the Russian skaters are that ideal. It's not like judges are always unfair or they always against Russian skaters.
    I think this inconsistency is beneficial for Russian skaters. So I'm surprised, that Kogan wants refereeing be more "objective".
    No skater in the world regardless of the country is ideal, the point is that russian federation should only care about Russian skaters and their issues, and so they do.
    The inconsistency at CoC was not beneficial towards Russian skaters, hence they raised a concern about it.
    If an inconsistency is harming a US skater, US federation should raise a complaint, not Rusfed. If it harms a Japanese skater, Japanese federation should raise a complaint.
    You see where I’m getting?
    If, for example, there’s an inconsistency that harmed Bradie or Mariah, but benefited Russian and Japanese skaters, US federation should raise a complaint and I don’t think Russians and Japanese should or would.

    You see, it’s a competitive world. No country will care about universal fairness, unless it harms their athletes.
    When German and Korean were fighting at semi-finals Epee(Fencing) in 2012, Britta vs Shin, and there was a judge ruling that benefited the German (additional time was given, because of problems with the stopwatch), Germans did not raise a complaint, why would they? Koreans did, as they should have.

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    Yiles! Hopefully this doesn’t blow back on the competitors in the coming GPS.

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    #сердцемсЗагитовой nussnacker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anonymoose_au View Post
    Oh so now the Russian Figure Skating Fed is supporting Liza? Better late than never I suppose.

    Although, I'm pretty sure if everything had remained the same, but it had been Sofia S in second place rather than Satoko/a non-Russian skater no tosses would have been given.

    It would be nice to get an explanation for Liza's low GOE I jumps though. It makes no sense.
    So true.

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    “Our federation turned to the ISU tech committee with a question about the inconsistency of decisions - some find an edge, others do not. Some other errors.
    I agree about the inconsistency but would they say something if the TP ignored also the flat edge in her second GP competition since Kogan is for objective refereeing?



    Shcherbakova got ! on all her lutz at the last event, and you can look in the replay at least two of them were on the outside edge.
    The camera angles are from the side, how can you be sure?

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    Lisa was never supportet by russian federation. They "kicked her out of the team" to allow medwedeva win 2 worlds.
    Now with the new juniors she has no chance in this sport anymore.
    With 3 A and the quality of her jumps she should get higher marks then Zagitova and Kihira, but she never got it...

  18. #18
    #сердцемсЗагитовой nussnacker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatingfan200 View Post
    I agree about the inconsistency but would they say something if the TP ignored also the flat edge in her second GP competition since Kogan is for objective refereeing?
    The TP ignored other “not too outside” edges too, for example those of Bradie. Hence, it was consistent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nussnacker View Post
    No skater in the world regardless of the country is ideal, the point is that russian federation should only care about Russian skaters and their issues, and so they do.
    The inconsistency at CoC was not beneficial towards Russian skaters, hence they raised a concern about it.
    If an inconsistency is harming a US skater, US federation should raise a complaint, not Rusfed. If it harms a Japanese skater, Japanese federation should raise a complaint.
    You see where I’m getting?
    If, for example, there’s an inconsistency that harmed Bradie or Mariah, but benefited Russian and Japanese skaters, US federation should raise a complaint and I don’t think Russians and Japanese should.

    You see, it’s a competitive world. No country will care about universal fairness, unless it harms their athletes.
    When German and Korean were fighting at semi-finals Epee(Fencing) in 2012, Britta vs Shin, and there was a judge ruling that benefited the German (additional time was given, because of problems with the stopwatch), Germans did not raise a complaint, why would they? Koreans did, as they should have.
    Sherbakova has problems with lutz. It's reality. And here lutz jumps were not that great in USA, but they were marked as "clean". Samodurova has problems with lutz, Medvedeva has and so on. How often we could see it in protocols? It's not like judges only see mistakes of Russian skater, but never ignore them.
    Inconsistency is like Pandora box. Objective scores could be really surprising for all top countries. I'm not sure they all want to see them.

  20. #20
    Rinkside
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    Which athlete will suffer most from objective scoring ?
    I dont think its Sherbakova...
    Which country will suffer most from objective scoring ?
    Japan ?

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