FFKKR appealed to ISU over inconsistency in judging at the GP stages | Page 16 | Golden Skate

FFKKR appealed to ISU over inconsistency in judging at the GP stages

skatingfan200

Medalist
Joined
Oct 20, 2017
How 'consistent' was the scoring at this GP stage over the days?

How 'in line' with the previous events was the scoring at this GP stage?

My feeling tells me calling and judging was lenient, but if the same leniency was applied to every skater equally, it didn't influence the end result, i.e. the ranking.

The edges for example were easier to judge this Grand Prix by the top three. And below the top three, not many do care. Inconsistency by Bell´s lutz edge, her SP lutz was also flat. Ryabova has a flutz but was two times called flat and only one time "e". For sure, there are more mistakes.

Overall, I would say not much has changed in comparison to the other Grand Prix´s. But I think it´s better than last season, flat/inside edges were rarely called.
 

Mishaminion

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
As one focus was on an uncalled UR for Satoko at CoC she had at least one here. Both jumps in her 3Lz-3T combo were under and yet only 3T was called. Odd, they obviously reviewed the 3T...

:confused:
 

lzxnl

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 8, 2018
Sasha's 3Lz-3Lo looked UR upon replay tbh. And seriously, you're going to give her 2 fall program 66 PCS while Satoko's 1 fall program gets 70?
 

4everchan

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
Country
Martinique
after watching cup or russia... i think what the russian federation called out in other GP was even more visible in their own event... PCS, inflated GOE, uncalled UR... etc...we saw it all... the men event suffered a lot from the wish of the Russian Fed to sweep the podium as soon as Shoma made a mistake... outrageous pcs for a guy like Samarin... and his GOE is so generous considering how bad his air position and stiff his landings are... i will stop here... this thread is long enough
 

Mishaminion

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Shoma was only just over half a point away from Bronze... landed two quads even. Samarin only had one successful one though he did not fall, just pops and a couple of dodgy landings. It was a messy FS overall as the men often tend to be.
Going back to Shoma, those two falls were hard program disrupting ones that probably took off more from his PCS

I'm a bit torn over him tbh.
He is struggling at the moment, not quite the Shoma of previous seasons
 

Mishaminion

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Sasha's 3Lz-3Lo looked UR upon replay tbh. And seriously, you're going to give her 2 fall program 66 PCS while Satoko's 1 fall program gets 70?

On the other hand Sasha scored 67 PCS in Canada with one fall so it is lower. Not by much but it is
Satoko had some rough landings other than the fall that made things messier too
 

Nord Stream 2

Match Penalty
Joined
Apr 14, 2019
Sasha's 3Lz-3Lo looked UR upon replay tbh. And seriously, you're going to give her 2 fall program 66 PCS while Satoko's 1 fall program gets 70?

How much should Satoko be given with a jump set of not the best Russian novice and without one combo? 80?
 

Nord Stream 2

Match Penalty
Joined
Apr 14, 2019
after watching cup or russia... i think what the russian federation called out in other GP was even more visible in their own event... PCS, inflated GOE, uncalled UR... etc...we saw it all... the men event suffered a lot from the wish of the Russian Fed to sweep the podium as soon as Shoma made a mistake... outrageous pcs for a guy like Samarin... and his GOE is so generous considering how bad his air position and stiff his landings are... i will stop here... this thread is long enough

Jason's second place is what we want to see in real men's ice skating.
 

surimi

Onward and forward, Sota!
Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2013
after watching cup or russia... i think what the russian federation called out in other GP was even more visible in their own event... PCS, inflated GOE, uncalled UR... etc...we saw it all... the men event suffered a lot from the wish of the Russian Fed to sweep the podium as soon as Shoma made a mistake... outrageous pcs for a guy like Samarin... and his GOE is so generous considering how bad his air position and stiff his landings are... i will stop here... this thread is long enough

I share this sentiment. Could it be a bit of 'see what it's like?' on their side? Who knows. One of our commentators said there were no non-European judges in one of the events...
I fullheartedly agree about the inflated goe and pcs for at least Samarin and Ignatov. I'll stop there as well.
 

Alegria

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 15, 2014
Country
Ukraine
How much should Satoko be given with a jump set of not the best Russian novice and without one combo? 80?

Sorry, but jump set is part of Executed Elements. And Satoko got her UR for her jumps. So why she should be punished twice? What part of components Trusova's jumps show? Skating skills? Transitions? Performance? Composition? Interpretation of the Music? I can help you with rules, so, please, explain me.

Skating Skills
Defined by overall cleanness and sureness, edge control and flow over
the ice surface demonstrated by a command of the skating vocabulary
(edges, steps, turns etc.), the clarity of technique and the use of
effortless power to accelerate and vary speed.
In evaluating the Skating Skills, the following must be considered:
• Use of deep edges, steps and turns;
• Balance, rhythmic knee action and precision of foot placement;
• Flow and glide;
• Varied use of power, speed and acceleration;
• Use of multi directional skating;
• Use of one foot skating.
Transitions
The varied and purposeful use of intricate footwork, positions,
movements and holds that link all elements.
In evaluating the Transitions, the following must be considered:
• Continuity of movements from one element to another (all
disciplines);
• Variety (including variety of holds in Ice Dance);
• Difficulty;
• Quality.
Performance
Involvement of the Skater/Pair/Couple physically, emotionally and
intellectually as they deliver the intent of the music and composition.
In evaluating the Performance, the following must be considered:
• Physical, emotional, intellectual involvement;
• Projection;
83
• Carriage & Clarity of movement;
• Variety and contrast of movements and energy;
• Individuality / personality;
• Unison and “oneness” (Pair Skating, Ice Dance);
• Spatial awareness between partners - management of the distance
between Skaters and management of changes of hold (Pair
Skating, Ice Dance).
Composition
An intentionally developed and/or original arrangement of all types of
movements according to the principles of musical phrase, space,
pattern, and structure.
In evaluating the Composition, the following must be considered:
• Purpose (idea, concept, vision, mood);
• Pattern / ice coverage;
• Multidimensional use of space and design of movements;
• Phrase and form (movements and parts structured to match the
musical phrase);
• Originality of the composition.
Interpretation of the Music /Timing (for Ice Dance)
The personal, creative, and genuine translation of the rhythm, character
and content of music to movement on ice.
In evaluating the Interpretation of the Music (/Timing), the following must
be considered:
• Movement and steps in time to the music (Timing);
• Expression of the music’s character / feeling and rhythm, when
clearly identifiable;
• Use of finesse (*) to reflect the details and nuances of the music;
• Relationship between the Skaters reflecting the character and
rhythm of the music (Pair Skating, Ice Dance);
• Skating primarily to the rhythmic beat for Rhythm Dance and
keeping a good balance between skating to the beat and melody
in the Free Dance (Ice Dance).
*Finesse is the Skater's refined, artful manipulation of music details and
nuances through movement. It is unique to the Skater/Skaters, and
demonstrates an inner feeling for the music and the
composition. Nuances are the personal ways of bringing subtle
variations to the intensity, tempo, and dynamics of the music made by
the composer and/or musicians.
 

Nord Stream 2

Match Penalty
Joined
Apr 14, 2019
Sorry, but jump set is part of Executed Elements. And Satoko got her UR for her jumps. So why she should be punished twice? What part of components Trusova's jumps show? Skating skills? Transitions? Performance? Composition? Interpretation of the Music? I can help you with rules, so, please, explain me.

Skating Skills
Defined by overall cleanness and sureness, edge control and flow over
the ice surface demonstrated by a command of the skating vocabulary
(edges, steps, turns etc.), the clarity of technique and the use of
effortless power to accelerate and vary speed.
In evaluating the Skating Skills, the following must be considered:
• Use of deep edges, steps and turns;
• Balance, rhythmic knee action and precision of foot placement;
• Flow and glide;
• Varied use of power, speed and acceleration;
• Use of multi directional skating;
• Use of one foot skating.
Transitions
The varied and purposeful use of intricate footwork, positions,
movements and holds that link all elements.
In evaluating the Transitions, the following must be considered:
• Continuity of movements from one element to another (all
disciplines);
• Variety (including variety of holds in Ice Dance);
• Difficulty;
• Quality.
Performance
Involvement of the Skater/Pair/Couple physically, emotionally and
intellectually as they deliver the intent of the music and composition.
In evaluating the Performance, the following must be considered:
• Physical, emotional, intellectual involvement;
• Projection;
83
• Carriage & Clarity of movement;
• Variety and contrast of movements and energy;
• Individuality / personality;
• Unison and “oneness” (Pair Skating, Ice Dance);
• Spatial awareness between partners - management of the distance
between Skaters and management of changes of hold (Pair
Skating, Ice Dance).
Composition
An intentionally developed and/or original arrangement of all types of
movements according to the principles of musical phrase, space,
pattern, and structure.
In evaluating the Composition, the following must be considered:
• Purpose (idea, concept, vision, mood);
• Pattern / ice coverage;
• Multidimensional use of space and design of movements;
• Phrase and form (movements and parts structured to match the
musical phrase);
• Originality of the composition.
Interpretation of the Music /Timing (for Ice Dance)
The personal, creative, and genuine translation of the rhythm, character
and content of music to movement on ice.
In evaluating the Interpretation of the Music (/Timing), the following must
be considered:
• Movement and steps in time to the music (Timing);
• Expression of the music’s character / feeling and rhythm, when
clearly identifiable;
• Use of finesse (*) to reflect the details and nuances of the music;
• Relationship between the Skaters reflecting the character and
rhythm of the music (Pair Skating, Ice Dance);
• Skating primarily to the rhythmic beat for Rhythm Dance and
keeping a good balance between skating to the beat and melody
in the Free Dance (Ice Dance).
*Finesse is the Skater's refined, artful manipulation of music details and
nuances through movement. It is unique to the Skater/Skaters, and
demonstrates an inner feeling for the music and the
composition. Nuances are the personal ways of bringing subtle
variations to the intensity, tempo, and dynamics of the music made by
the composer and/or musicians.

How much do you think Trusova should get?
 

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Country
United-States
How much do you think Trusova should get?

Excuse me for jumping in, but I am not sure I understand the question.

How many skating skills points should Sasha get solely for executing a jump? None.

How many jumping points should Jason Brown get for a spiral? None.

They’re not related. :confused:
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
How much do you think Trusova should get?

Trusova's PCSs are about right, in my opinion. She is not quite in the class with Zagitova and Medvedeva yet. I may be a lone voice crying in the wilderness, but I think that Tuktamysheva should get higher scores at least in Performance and Musical Expression.

Anyway, it doesn't matter. Land three out of four quads, go home with the gold. No non-Quadlings need apply.
 
Last edited:

Miller

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 29, 2016
In principle, I do not mind. Are there no ISU recommendations for not giving more than 9 after a fall?

9.25 max for SS/TR/CO. 8.75 for PE/IN. (2 serious errors, 1 = 9.75 for SS/TR/CO, 9.50 for PE/IN).

Russian and Azerbaijan judges gave max of 8.75 for PE/IN, Belgian judge also for PE.

Azerbaijan judge also gave max of 9.25 (PCS 74 equivalent) for SS, same as Evgenia + 0.75 higher than Mariah and Satoko.... Next highest, Belgian judge 8.75.


Ladies competition overall. Don't think they got the Kogan memo. Lots of !'s scattered about the place, plus Evgenia with an e. Lots of URs also, one or 2 missed, but at least no phantom ones AFAIK (they're the ones that really get peoples' backs up). Overall somewhere between strictness of this one and last 2 would be perfect (IMO).
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
In principle, I do not mind. Are there no ISU recommendations for not giving more than 9 after a fall?


From ISU Communication 2254:

Program Components

If a program contains a Fall or a Serious error, the maximum scores are listed below: Skating Skills, Transitions, Composition: Maximum score 9.75. Performance and Interpretation: Maximum score 9.50.


If a program contains Falls or Serious errors, the maximum scores are listed below: Skating Skills, Transitions, Composition: Maximum score 9.25. Performance and Interpretation: Maximum score 8.75.


Serious errors are interruptions during the program and technical mistakes that impact the integrity/continuity/fluidity of the composition and/or its relation to the music.

Similar limitations must be applied to all levels of skaters from extremely poor to outstanding.

Note the distinction between maximum PCS for "a fall" (singular) and "falls" (plural).

So yes, if there are two or more falls, the Performance and Interpretation scores are now supposed to be lower than 9.
 

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 29, 2013
Country
United-States
Excuse me for jumping in, but I am not sure I understand the question.

How many skating skills points should Sasha get solely for executing a jump? None.

How many jumping points should Jason Brown get for a spiral? None.

They’re not related. :confused:

I know you’re just being hyperbolic to be dramatic here but jumps actually can influence skating skills pretty significantly. The use of steps, gliding on edges, and other means of transitioning into the jump and out of them can really help increase the SS overall mark. Not only that but when the jump is landed smoothly and those transitions into and out enhance the entire pass then it can help secure higher GOE on the jump. So I think it’s fair to say that SS can impact jump GOE and jumps with transitions can impact the SS mark.

So when a skater is banging out jumps and it’s time for a judge to mark the PCS...skaters with lots of noticeable transitions near and around jumping passes likely could see a more generous SS score than say someone who stalks their jumps. Obviously this will vary from judge to judge and to varying degrees but to say jumping isn’t related to SS is IMO not an accurate understanding of how PCS is awarded.
 
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