FFKKR appealed to ISU over inconsistency in judging at the GP stages | Page 5 | Golden Skate

FFKKR appealed to ISU over inconsistency in judging at the GP stages

Joined
Jun 21, 2003
This whining has materialized for the first time in how many years/decades? Just when 6:0 at GPF became a clear possibility. Coincidence? Sure, sure....

People, including skating officials, have been whining about figure skating judging every year since the 1800s.

If you judge GOE from -3 to +3, someone will whine about that. If you raise it to -5 to +5 people will whine about that. If you make it a percentage of base value, people will whine about that. If you make it a fixed number of points ...

If < means less than 90 degree or if in means between 90 and 180, someone will be up in arms with righteous indignation. If you give more leeway to the judges and correspondingly diminish the power of the tech panel, or vice versa, someone will complain abut that, either way.

No matter what the details of the rules, someone will be eager to jump up and prove how that rule puts his skater at a disadvantage.

As for the fact that some judges think a jump is worth 0 GOE and others think that the same jump is wortth +3 -- Yes. that's what judging means.

Anyway ... since everyone has a complaint about everything no matter what, here is mine ;) :

Based only on the skating, this should be the greatest and most enjoyable season of figure skating ever. We are seeing feats of athleticism that were not even imagined two years ago, and all this without neglecting blade-to-ice skills and performance values. But instead of celebrating our good fortune, all we can do is mope around feeling sorry for ourselves.

The headline should be "Shcherbakova skates brilliantly at Cup of China, wins going away with two quad Lutzes!"

Instead the headline is, "Young You didn't get a < on her triple flip, and here's a video to show what an unspeakable and outrageous travesty that is!!!!"
 
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Baron Vladimir

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Mr. Prins was the technical controller and therefore not responsible for edge or underrotation calls, which is the job of the technical specialist and technical specialist assistant. Funny how people drag Prins name through the mud when he was not even the one to do these calls just because they have an agenda against him.

All three of them are voting for the call, and any one of them can push the review button for any element. Knowing that Vanessa Gusmeroli is usually judging in 'favour' of the skater, I supposed it must be Mr. Prins who iniciated the calls, or it may be that third judge, who is to be fair totally unknown for me. Also, i was not dead serious by saying that to him, so...
 

[email protected]

Medalist
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 26, 2014
Is that so? Why do you consider it a fact? Until there is an investigation I think it’s still up in the air.

Personally I don’t see what’s happening now as any more bizarre than it can usually be. At least I don’t think anyone has been penalised unjustly just that perhaps others were let off.

It is so because now it's an official inquiry about inconsistent judging from the Russian federation - the unprecedented thing in figure skating history. I know that nothing will convince my opponents before ISU will admit that some of the tech calls were inconsistent. I also know that the likelihood of this is close to 0. But, nevertheless, it's a fact that the issue is no longer just random fans' whining.
 

[email protected]

Medalist
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 26, 2014
People, including skating officials, have been whining about figure skating judging every year since the 1800s.

If you judge GOE from -3 to +3, someone will whine about that. If you raise it to -5 to +5 people will whine about that. If you make it a percentage of base value, people will whine about that. If you make it a fixed number of points ...

If < means lkes than 90 degree or if in means between 90 and 180, someone will be up in arms with righteous indignation. If you give more leeway to the judges and correspondingly diminish the power of the tech panel, or vice versa, someone will complain abut that, either way.

No matter what the details of the rules, someone will be eager to jump up and prove how that rule puts his skater at a disadvantage.

As for the fact that some judges think a jump is worth 0 GOE and others think that the same jump is wortth +3 -- Yes. that's what judging means.

Anyway ... since everyone has a complaint about everything no matter what, here is mine ;) :

Based only on the skating, this should be the greatest and most enjoyable season of figure skating ever. We are seeing feats of athleticism that were not even imagined two years ago, and all this without neglecting blade-to-ice skills and performance values. But instead of celebrating our good fortune, all we can do is mope around feeling sorry for ourselves.

The headline should be "Shcherbakova skates brilliantly at Cup of China, wins going away with two quad Lutzes!"

Instead the headline is, "Young You didn't get a < on her triple flip, and here's a video to show what an unspeakable and outrageous travesty that is!!!!"

You are doing what I as a frequent inteviewer call "shifting". There is the embedded variance in FS scores because it is a judged sport. But after a while the explanation that the odds are adequate to have the observed event becomes uneasy at least for some people. Like tossing the coin once you are fine with either heads or tails. But after having 10 heads in a row you may start asking questions if something is wrong with the coin. That's my whole point.
 

Baron Vladimir

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
But in actual fact, you do not know who pushed what button, right?

I can't be sure, but for the reasons i stated above (and some others i dont want to talk about here), i can bet on him. You can of course bet on Vanesa or on that Slovakian judge, if that sounds logical to you ;) And again, i'm not dead serious, i don't know why are you so defending about it.
 

LuvIce

Rinkside
Joined
Sep 14, 2018
I have a Russian friend that I showed this to. She said “It is the Russian way to have an agenda, it was quite necessary for a very long time for their survival’ and she said to look at what it puts in motion like a chess game.
Very interesting.
 

monochrom3

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 29, 2015
Funny how people drag Prins name through the mud when he was not even the one to do these calls just because they have an agenda against him.

To be fair to everyone, there is fair enough reason for people to feel Prins has an underlying agenda, or that he is being unduly biased. Prins was part of the committee which headed the proposal to raise the figure skating age to 17 and above, an idea that appeared to him after he saw Alina step on the senior circuit in her Olympic year. He gave an interview about it as well back in 2018.

Of course, I'm not saying that he's necessarily biased, but that people should have their misgivings about him is not completely out of thin air.
 

evasorange

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 22, 2015
LOL oh I love the smell of delusion and hypocrisy in the morning 😂 as far as I’m concerned, there are two cold hard facts in regards to this complaint-1. Figure skating judging is horrible and broken and inconsistent throughout every event and for every country and 2. Russia is the country that has benefited the MOST from all of that horrible and broken and inconsistent judging. ESPECIALLY in the women’s discipline. Evgenia flutzing without a care in the world for many seasons. Alina and her uncalled urs. Incredible PCS growth for whom ever the new shiny Russian junior of the season is. 8s+9s even when the program is nothing but jumps. Positive goe for stepouts and messy landings I could go on and on. I can’t imagine their reaction If their skaters were judged by the harsh standards some of these small federation ones are. To borrow a popular meme phrase...Russian fed you should have just sat there and ate your food 😂 🤡
 

Baron Vladimir

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
I have a Russian friend that I showed this to. She said “It is the Russian way to have an agenda, it was quite necessary for a very long time for their survival’ and she said to look at what it puts in motion like a chess game.
Very interesting.

That's correct i think. And actually is quite obvious where they are going with it. I mean, they said it already ;)
 

Grin

Medalist
Joined
May 17, 2017
LOL oh I love the smell of delusion and hypocrisy in the morning &#55357;&#56834; as far as I’m concerned, there are two cold hard facts in regards to this complaint-1. Figure skating judging is horrible and broken and inconsistent throughout every event and for every country and 2. Russia is the country that has benefited the MOST from all of that horrible and broken and inconsistent judging. ESPECIALLY in the women’s discipline. Evgenia flutzing without a care in the world for many seasons. Alina and her uncalled urs. Incredible PCS growth for whom ever the new shiny Russian junior of the season is. 8s+9s even when the program is nothing but jumps. Positive goe for stepouts and messy landings I could go on and on. I can’t imagine their reaction If their skaters were judged by the harsh standards some of these small federation ones are. To borrow a popular meme phrase...Russian fed you should have just sat there and ate your food &#55357;&#56834; &#55358;&#56609;

I'd say US were and are the main benefactor of this system.
Canada is close 2nd
 

LuvIce

Rinkside
Joined
Sep 14, 2018
And it didn’t take long to show what they really want: quadruples in women's short program. Many nations and perhaps ISU committees will want to appease almighty Russia by giving one of their requests as a compromise.
 

nussnacker

one and only
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 16, 2019
LOL oh I love the smell of delusion and hypocrisy in the morning �� as far as I’m concerned, there are two cold hard facts in regards to this complaint-1. Figure skating judging is horrible and broken and inconsistent throughout every event and for every country and 2. Russia is the country that has benefited the MOST from all of that horrible and broken and inconsistent judging. ESPECIALLY in the women’s discipline. Evgenia flutzing without a care in the world for many seasons. Alina and her uncalled urs. Incredible PCS growth for whom ever the new shiny Russian junior of the season is. 8s+9s even when the program is nothing but jumps. Positive goe for stepouts and messy landings I could go on and on. I can’t imagine their reaction If their skaters were judged by the harsh standards some of these small federation ones are. To borrow a popular meme phrase...Russian fed you should have just sat there and ate your food �� ��

Well.. DUH.
Talking about food, so far all of the complaints in this thread are looking like this:
"-I had bad service this time, I will complain about it.
-How dare you? Hypocrite! Other people had bad service too and they never complained! When you had good service, you didn't complain, did you?"
Well... I'm just not sure why Rusfed should just shut up, just because everyone else is doing that? If other countries aren't willing to do that for their athletes, and rusfed is, well, seems like it's not rusfed's fault, is it.

maybe it's just me, but complaining over the fact that Rusfed is sticking up for their athletes, looks silly. :slink:
And I also don't see a problem with Rusfed NOT complaining, when their athletes were judged favorably, i.e. overlooking Medvedeva's flutz, as you said.
I can't possibly imagine any federation complaining about favorable scoring of their athletes, who in the world would do that? :confused:
 

evasorange

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 22, 2015
I'd say US were and are the main benefactor of this system.
Canada is close 2nd

I’m not sure how you can figure that when US ladies have been struggling for a while now. We haven’t even had anyone in the Grand Prix finale since Ashley back in like 2016. last season at skate America Bradie could have very well been fed pushed to get on the podium but she came in 4th...let’s say Evegnia makes the same kind of mistakes Bradie did this weekend at rostelecom cup(some under rotations, an edge call, a pop) and everyone else skates well, do you think she’ll end up off the podium? Or will the fact that she’s skating in Russia and and has always since her first season gotten incredibly generous scores and calls protect her from her own mistakes? Even at Skate Canada a couple of weeks ago she got the 3rd highest PCS with a bad fall and step out, Bradie who was clean only .4 tenths higher then her. We can go back and find MANY examples of this, with basically all of the Russian ladies who had their senior debut since around 2014.
 

jenaj

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Country
United-States
I'd say US were and are the main benefactor of this system.
Canada is close 2nd

You mean like Mirai Nagasu, all of whose jumps were put under a microscope and whose PCS never rose above the low 8s, no matter what she did? I remember the ridiculous gap in scoring at the Olympic team event between her and Zagitova, even after she had a 3A and no UR calls. Who else? Bradie, who has not exactly impressed the international judges? Mariah, same? If the US is benefiting so much, why aren't their ladies winning?
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
When any country banned from Olympics, this country is not obliged to stay with Olympic Charter.

It may attack and use any means of war against anyone. Do you want to have Russia in a such position?

That would be par for the course. At the 1956 Olympics 8 nations boycotted the Games in Australia -- 3 Arab countries because England took over the Suez Canal, several western European countries because the Soviet Union crushed the Hungarian revolt, and China because Taiwan was also invited.

(Weird factoid) The 1956 equestrian event was held in Sweden because of Australia's strict laws about bringing animals into the country -- just look at what all those rabbits did!)

In 1980, 66 nations led by the United States boycotted the Games in Moscow because the Soviet Union sent troops to Afghanistan. (Later, the Soviets left and the United State took on that endless war. Now it looks like the U.S. is trying (but not very hard) to get out and Russia is trying to get back in.)

In retaliation, 18 nations led by the Soviet Union boycotted the Los Angeles Games -- allowing U.S. gymnast Mary Lou Retton to win the gold medal and become rich and famous. (Factoid -- Mary Lou had the same business agent (the late Shep Goldberg) as Michelle Kwan.)

For the winter games, I think the most controversial was 1936. Austrian and Swiss skiers boycotted because the IOC did not allow ski instructors to compete as athletes (they were professionals). Plus, a lot of folks were dismayed by Sonja Henie cozying up to Adolph Hitler.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
You are doing what I as a frequent inteviewer call "shifting". There is the embedded variance in FS scores because it is a judged sport. But after a while the explanation that the odds are adequate to have the observed event becomes uneasy at least for some people. Like tossing the coin once you are fine with either heads or tails. But after having 10 heads in a row you may start asking questions if something is wrong with the coin. That's my whole point.

Yes, I understand that. I guess what I am unhappy about is that the proposed answers to "what is wrong with the coin?" are all so far fetched.

Alexander Lakernik and his cronies in the ISU are against Russia? There is a sinister pact among Finland, Australia and Spain to promote the fortunes of Mariah Bell?
 

Mishaminion

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Banning Russia didn't prevent Russians skaters from taking part in it. Dream on.

P.S. At least you don't pretend Russian ladies are your favorite skaters. I give you that.

I see your obvious reference to me. What is your problem?
I don't pretend anything, I have numerous Russian favourites and have said so many times over the years I've been here. You've spent several posts making veiled accusations towards me for supposedly being a liar and I'm tired of it. Just spell it out clearly
 
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