Ask anything about figure skating, only kindly answers allowed | Golden Skate

Ask anything about figure skating, only kindly answers allowed

TT_Fin

The second worst besserwisser in the world
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Jan 29, 2007
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What do you think about this kind of thread, of course questions about figure skating. I have been thinking this kind of thread for a while. Please forum stuff be kind and correct the language errors and thread. I robbed this idea from another forum.

In this thread there is no stupid questions. If somebody asks what is figure skating or what is difference between triple and double, please answer kindly. I have been watching figure skating more than 50 years, but I really did not know much about it until I found this forum, which has taught me a lot. I do not know personally nobody

And you who know a lot, please answer.

Edit: You can of course ask in this forum by making own thread, but some people are afraid to start a new thread, because of the reason being afraid not-kindly-answers.
 

Ic3Rabbit

Former Elite, now Pro. ⛸️
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Joined
Jan 9, 2017
Country
Olympics
What do you think about this kind of thread, of course questions about figure skating. I have been thinking this kind of thread for a while. Please forum stuff be kind and correct the language errors and thread. I robbed this idea from another forum.

In this thread there is no stupid questions. If somebody asks what is figure skating or what is difference between triple and double, please answer kindly. I have been watching figure skating more than 50 years, but I really did not know much about it until I found this forum, which has taught me a lot. I do not know personally nobody

And you who know a lot, please answer.

Edit: You can of course ask in this forum by making own thread, but some people are afraid to start a new thread, because of the reason being afraid not-kindly-answers.

I'm pretty sure this is going to get moved to the Lutz Corner where we do this on the regular for skaters and potential skaters, and it is done so kindly. :biggrin:

Perhaps there should be a new section of the board proposed for what the OP is asking for?
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
What do you think about this kind of thread, of course questions about figure skating. I have been thinking this kind of thread for a while. Please forum stuff be kind and correct the language errors and thread. I robbed this idea from another forum.

In this thread there is no stupid questions. If somebody asks what is figure skating or what is difference between triple and double, please answer kindly. I have been watching figure skating more than 50 years, but I really did not know much about it until I found this forum, which has taught me a lot. I do not know personally nobody

And you who know a lot, please answer.
Edit: You can of course ask in this forum by making own thread, but some people are afraid to start a new thread, because of the reason being afraid not-kindly-answers.

Kind answer :ghug::

I surely am not the only one here who has fond memories of the "Stupid Questions" thread -- which was a GS classic for years, starting in 2013. Its premise was the same as yours.

The mods eventually moved the Stupid Questions thread out of The Edge.
It has been renamed as Random Figure Skating Questions (181 pages and counting), and it now lives in The Lutz Corner.

One of my hopes for a new thread would be that in accordance with your title :), it would be used only for figure skating questions.
(I disliked that the older thread all too often was getting "abused" with questions completely unrelated to figure skating.)

A nice ripple effect of the Stupid Questions thread was that its spirit seemed (IMO) to spread throughout GS and to make all GS threads more welcoming to "stupid questions" -- and kind responses.

In fact, it is my personal belief that it is more productive for a "stupid question" to be asked in a thread that is on the general topic of the specific question, if such a thread exists. For example, if the question is, "I don't understand why Skater X qualified for the GPF and Skater Y did not?", I think it is more helpful for the question to be asked and answered in a general thread about GPF qualification, where the discussion would be more likely to be seen by others who also want to get a better understanding of the rules for GPF qualification.

Of course there are plenty of figure skating questions that would not really fit into an existing thread anyway.
So an "ask anything" thread could be just as popular as the Stupid Questions thread was.​
 

NanaPat

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 25, 2014
Country
Canada
I'm pretty sure this is going to get moved to the Lutz Corner where we do this on the regular for skaters and potential skaters, and it is done so kindly. :biggrin:

Perhaps there should be a new section of the board proposed for what the OP is asking for?

I think there are two meanings of "about figure skating". One is the sense of questions by/for actual skaters, and those go in the Lutz corner.

But there are other questions that could come from non-skaters, about the general subject of figure skating. I think what distinguished the "stupid questions thread" was that the questions were fairly factual, and the person asking just wantd a single (factual) answer, without a lot of discussion required. An example would be "What is Megan Duhamel doing these days?" One answer (or at most two) would probably suffice, and the thread would then move on.

It's kind of silly to make a whole thread to ask a question like that, because you're likely to get multiple, redundant answers when all you want to know is that she is living and coaching in Oakville and just had a baby.
 

CaroLiza_fan

EZETTIE LATUASV IVAKMHA
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Oct 25, 2012
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As ice coverage and NanaPat have explained during the hour since I opened this page, we already have a thread that is exactly what you are describing:

https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?42225

For years, the "Random Questions Thread" (née "Stupid Questions Thread") was the most active thread in the Reference Forum. But, when the Reference Forum was merged into the Lutz Corner a couple of years ago, all the threads that had been in the Reference Forum got buried in amongst all the skating advice threads, and ultimately got forgotten about. Which is a real shame.

I wish the two Fora had never got merged, because they had distinct roles and distinct audiences. I used to go into the Reference Forum all the time, because I found the threads there very interesting. But, I hardly ever go into the Lutz Corner, because most of the threads are not relevant to me since I don't skate.

CaroLiza_fan
 

lady_bee

Medalist
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
I miss "Stupid Question" thread, because I sometimes have questions which is too stupid for the Lutz Corner.
I am just a casual fan who can't skate, so hesitate to use the corner.

One of questions I always wanted to ask, is why figure skating judges always stay in the same place, while in other sports, they don't.
For example, in football & rugby, judges are running with players, and in volleyball or baseball, judges are placed every important position.
Why cant we have judges and technical controllers on every side or corner of the link so that they can see the skater more closely?
(It might be funny to watch technical controllers running around the link with skaters, so I don't demand it:biggrin:)

I have more stupid questions, but I feel they are not belonging to the "Lutz Corner".
 

noskates

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 11, 2012
I think figure skating judges basically have the best seats in the house. They do have little TVs on their workstations where they can review the skate. I've sat in the front row at a competition, in the "end zone" and also center ice about 11 rows up. The latter, for me, gave the best advantage which is what I think the judges have.
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Why cant we have judges and technical controllers on every side or corner of the link so that they can see the skater more closely?
(It might be funny to watch technical controllers running around the link with skaters, so I don't demand it:biggrin:)

Back in the school figures days, judges used to stand on the ice near where the skaters were doing their figures, and then kneel down to check the tracings up close.

It would not be possible for the officials to keep moving around the outside of the rink to keep up with freeskaters, who are often traveling at 20+ mph. How fast do you expect them to run?

They would have to skate around the ice with the skaters in order to keep up, but it would be pretty distracting as well as making it difficult to input their calls.

Yes, it would be funny to watch.


In theory it would be possible to position officials at different fixed locations around the rink. That would mean that different individuals would have good views of different elements, and different perceptions of the layout of the program. It would at least encourage the skaters to project their performances in 360 degrees and not solely in one judgecentric direction.

Expect more differences of opinions between judges if that were the case.

Practical problems that would need to be dealt with if officials were to be dispersed around the rink:

*Different rinks have different architecture. Large arenas usually have areas for seating available on all sides, but local rinks where some senior B and JGP events are held, not to mention domestic qualifying events and local events, may not have any space at all for spectators let alone for officials with equipment on more than one side of the rink. So the dispersement locations would be inconsistent from one venue to another.

*The computers would have to be linked to each other. That would either require lots more cabling with more time for setup and takedown, and more potential for nonofficials to trip over or otherwise interfere with cables, or else some kind of wireless connection that would be more vulnerable to hacking.

*In the event of the computer system failing in any way during the event (from the whole system crashing to an individual judge's touchscreen not working, or anywhere in between, or just a judge failing to enter one of the multiple marks for a program, the referee would need to be able to contact all the judges or a specific judge. This would require some additional wired or wireless communication system outside of the scoring computers.
And keeping the judges off the communication channel used by the technical panel, unless you want the judges to listen to the real-time calls and review discussions while they're determining their marks.

In theory it would be possible to overcome all these issues. But would the benefits outweigh the practical challenges? If different lines of sight for jump calls is the main benefit desired, adding a second camera position for review videos as diametrically opposite as possible to the main position, given the architecture of each venue, would be a simpler place to start. With only one additional, and lengthy, set of cables involved.
 

NanaPat

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 25, 2014
Country
Canada
As ice coverage and NanaPat have explained during the hour since I opened this page, we already have a thread that is exactly what you are describing:

https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?42225

For years, the "Random Questions Thread" (née "Stupid Questions Thread") was the most active thread in the Reference Forum. But, when the Reference Forum was merged into the Lutz Corner a couple of years ago, all the threads that had been in the Reference Forum got buried in amongst all the skating advice threads, and ultimately got forgotten about. Which is a real shame.

I wish the two Fora had never got merged, because they had distinct roles and distinct audiences. I used to go into the Reference Forum all the time, because I found the threads there very interesting. But, I hardly ever go into the Lutz Corner, because most of the threads are not relevant to me since I don't skate.

CaroLiza_fan

I thought the Stupid Questions Thread was originally in the Edge, then got moved to Reference, and then to the Lutz, but I could be wrong.

In any case, I agree that it used to be a very interesting thread and moving/renaming it has pretty much killed it off.
 

CaroLiza_fan

EZETTIE LATUASV IVAKMHA
Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 25, 2012
Country
Northern-Ireland
I thought the Stupid Questions Thread was originally in the Edge, then got moved to Reference, and then to the Lutz, but I could be wrong.

In any case, I agree that it used to be a very interesting thread and moving/renaming it has pretty much killed it off.

Correct, it was originally in The Edge. But, it was moved to the Reference Forum to make sure that it would always be available to post in, and didn't get archived if nobody posted anything in it for a while.

To be honest, I don't think the move to the Reference Forum and the renaming of the thread had much of an effect. It was when the Reference Forum was merged with the Lutz Corner that the damage was done. Because all the threads that had been in the Reference Forum were effectively killed off by this.

CaroLiza_fan
 

NanaPat

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 25, 2014
Country
Canada
Correct, it was originally in The Edge. But, it was moved to the Reference Forum to make sure that it would always be available to post in, and didn't get archived if nobody posted anything in it for a while.

To be honest, I don't think the move to the Reference Forum and the renaming of the thread had much of an effect. It was when the Reference Forum was merged with the Lutz Corner that the damage was done. Because all the threads that had been in the Reference Forum were effectively killed off by this.

CaroLiza_fan

I think I lost interest in the thread after the first move and the name change (for me, the name change and lower activity levels were the bigger factors, as I usually look at NEW POSTS). But can easily believe that some people (including you) stayed with it longer.
 

Ic3Rabbit

Former Elite, now Pro. ⛸️
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Joined
Jan 9, 2017
Country
Olympics
I think there are two meanings of "about figure skating". One is the sense of questions by/for actual skaters, and those go in the Lutz corner.

But there are other questions that could come from non-skaters, about the general subject of figure skating. I think what distinguished the "stupid questions thread" was that the questions were fairly factual, and the person asking just wantd a single (factual) answer, without a lot of discussion required. An example would be "What is Megan Duhamel doing these days?" One answer (or at most two) would probably suffice, and the thread would then move on.

It's kind of silly to make a whole thread to ask a question like that, because you're likely to get multiple, redundant answers when all you want to know is that she is living and coaching in Oakville and just had a baby.

That was my point, wasn't sure if it actually fit in the Lutz Corner because we answer questions for actual skaters there. Was just trying to figure out where something like that would fit for the OP.
 

Princessroja

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Joined
Jun 22, 2015
Country
United-States
Yeah, I used to follow the thread closely before it moved; now I visit it maybe once a year. It would be nice if it could stay in the Edge. I personally feel that a thread about figure skating minutiae is well suited for a forum dedicated to figure skating minutiae! We'd probably also get a lot fewer random threads opened that get a few responses and then die.
 

DenissVFan

Medalist
Joined
Oct 20, 2017
Ok, I have a question. When did combos become a thing? I remember watching performances from the past with only solo jumps and I can't pinpoint the time when combos were introduced.
 

lady_bee

Medalist
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
I think figure skating judges basically have the best seats in the house. They do have little TVs on their workstations where they can review the skate. I've sat in the front row at a competition, in the "end zone" and also center ice about 11 rows up. The latter, for me, gave the best advantage which is what I think the judges have.

Back in the school figures days, judges used to stand on the ice near where the skaters were doing their figures, and then kneel down to check the tracings up close.
............................

noskates & gkelly, thank you for answering my question. You showed me the points which I was not aware of.
It was good that I finally got a chance to ask my long time question and learned new points of view.:thank:
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Ok, I have a question. When did combos become a thing? I remember watching performances from the past with only solo jumps and I can't pinpoint the time when combos were introduced.


I haven't seen enough programs, let alone whole competitions, from the early 1970s and earlier to give a really good answer. I would say that at some point between mid-1940s and mid-70s they went from rare to common elements.

The introduction of the short program (just for seniors at first) in 1972-73, which included a required combination jump, probably cemented the importance of this kind of skill. Certainly by the time I was skating just a couple of years later it was expected that I'd learn to put single toe loop or single loop on the end of any single jump, and it was not uncommon for intermediate skaters to do axel-half loop-double salchow.

Jump sequences with a forward-landing half jump or one-and-a-half jump immediately followed by inside three to toe loop or mohawk to flip had been around since the 1930s and were apparently fairly common in 60s and early 70s.
 

Midian

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 16, 2018
But why do they even jump combos? I used to thought they must be worth more than single jumps. But now when I look at detailed judges scores I see that there is no difference.
For example: 3Lz = 5,90 ; 3Lo = 4,90 ; but combo 3Lz + 3Lo = 10,80 which is the same as if they were jumped separately. So why taking a risk?

I also can't figure out why Anna Shcherbakova jumps two 2A but the second one never gets "REP!" ?
 

ruga

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 20, 2017
But why do they even jump combos? I used to thought they must be worth more than single jumps. But now when I look at detailed judges scores I see that there is no difference.
For example: 3Lz = 5,90 ; 3Lo = 4,90 ; but combo 3Lz + 3Lo = 10,80 which is the same as if they were jumped separately. So why taking a risk?

I also can't figure out why Anna Shcherbakova jumps two 2A but the second one never gets "REP!" ?

Skaters jump combos so they can include more triples. They can do 7 jumping passes in the free out of which 3 can be combos (that lets them jump 11 jumps in total). Without combos, a skater could only do 7 jumps. Not to mention that triples and quads can only be repeated in combination. 3Lz-3Lo in particular lets a skater have a 7 triple layout without repeating 2 triple toes (which are the 'cheapest' jumps) and with no euler which has pretty low base value but is considered a jump.

The +REP penalty applies only to triples and quads.
 
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